j.s.greenier

Is moving plug-ins vertically within the environment, using the method above still working for anyone is LP8 / LP9?

It looks like Logic now ignores the name of the "Alias" and shows the name of the folder that the Alias is pointing too - in the EXS instrument list. That is, before (in Logic Pro 8.0) the EXS instrument list would be based on the name of the Alias... Not sure if this is a bug at all... although I much prefer the old way - I have instruments arranged so that the main folder is "SAM Horns", then the folders within that are "Instruments" (the instruments) and another folder "Samples"... and I created an alias named just "SAM Horns" that points to the instruments folder - because if you just point it to the main "SAM Horns" folder then Logic takes much longer to boot while scanning the EXS instruments - as it would be scanning the Samples folder too, and it does NOT need to. It's basically just a naming thing that I could get around - by going back and renaming all my folders, but for me it's an organizational thing. I don't want to have an "SAM Horns" directory and then another "SAM Horns" sub directory... I like to name the sub directories "what they are"... instruments or samples. I could also name the Instruments folder "SAM Horns EXS24" or something, of course then the EXS instrument list has all these EXS24 suffixes that it doesn't need... and just adds unnecessary space to the list etc. Hopefully it is a bug... but I'm not so sure. Either way - whatever... will just have to adopt to the new schema.

Ok but you say with you even if a region is selected (with automation data in it) it will still keep scrolling though ? if so are you on L8 or L9 ? No, no... it will keep scrolling through the region automation, NOT the track automation. Here's a different explanation: Track automation view is on, the Volume and Pan automation of the track have data / nodes, currently track Volume is showing... a region on the track is selected, and it has Modulation and Expression data. If you use the auto define key command, Logic will cycle to track Pan, then track display off, then go to the region automation and begin cycling through that over and over. Basically, if the track is selected, and NO regions are selected, the command will always cycle through the track automation - over and over. If you select a region then Logic will cycle through the track automation (if it's on and displayed), sort of to turn the track automation "off" before it then cycles the region automation and will then continuously cycle through the region automation. If track automation is "off" and a region is selected with automation Logic will just cycle through the region automation. It just always seemed like the key command "stopped" cycling when a region was selected because the region probably didn't have any automation data in it... so Logic would cycle out of the track automation - go to the region - and then stop, because the region had no data to cycle through. Hope that makes sense... lots of words, heh

Correct! HAaaa so you had to unselect the region(s). I finally got it. I had a region selected but I was in automation view, so when you use Auto Define it starts going through some of the parameters then gets stuck on Display Off. I see what was happening... Yeah... it's sort of strange, if the region is selected Logic has to cycle through the Automation for the track before it starts cycling through the region - but if the region doesn't have any parameters it will just seem like the key command isn't doing anything.

If a region on the track is Selected then the key command is operating auto define on the Region, but if no regions are selected it operates on the track. So if you select the region and the region has no automation in it, the key command will appear to do nothing, and it won't operate on the track either. And yes, mine will continue to cycle through parameters - in both instances... track and region. Really? It doesn't here. If I have, say, Volume and a plug-in automation parameter, and I'm viewing volume, press Auto Define, it goes to off, and if I press it again it stays on off. That's strange... but yes - work here... cycles through over and over here - if I hold the key command down I get a little flip book of automation.

alwync, We just crossed posts... Yes... again, my key command cycles back through again, it does NOT get stuck on the off state.

And he already explained why it's not working as expected. Works great to cycle through parameters in Hyper Draw view, but not in Track automation view. Correct, but that's it, that's the command... there's unfortunately no other key command for this... the command by nature goes back to an off state. alwync, Are you also saying that your command ends at the off state and will NOT keep cycling through? My Auto define key command cycles the same exact way in Automation view as it does in Hyper Draw... and after it goes to the off state, if I hit it again it continues to cycle again.

I think you may not have read the entire original post? Nah, I just meant that this is the key command... he already found it.

Key command is "Hyper Draw: Autodefine" Works in the Hyper Draw in Piano Roll but also for track automation

You're looking at the Virtual Memory in activity monitor... Logic will typically start acting strange the closer you get to 4GB... and crash right at 4GB. The problem with EXS is not that it won't load more than 4GB, but that it will actually load into Logic's internal memory BEFORE it loads externally. I've seen this up to about 3.5GB VM... at which point you can load more and more EXS instruments and Logic's VM will stay the same. So essentially EXS is using up memory that would be better used on other 3rd party plugins... instead of just loading entirely outside of Logic like Kontakt 3.5.

Unfortunately it's simply a Logic 32-bit issue - once Logic gets to 4GB of Virtual Memory it will crash. Essentially the amount of RAM will only show performance gains in other areas, but currently Logic CANNOT utilize all your RAM for loading plugins and samples, EXS is supposed to be able to, but that's up in the air.. read on. Each plugin uses some VM, and then if you load samples within plugins they of course also use Logic's VM. The only plugin that I know of to date that can get around this is Kontakt 3.5 - (and the new Battery update as well) as it loads all samples in it's own memory space "outside" of Logic. The plugin itself WILL use some of Logic's VM, but compared to K3 and K2.5 - each K3.5 plugin instance barely uses anything. EXS is "supposed" to load samples into it's own memory space separate from Logic but this doesn't always seem to be the case, see: http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=44519&highlight= & http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=44330&highlight= Until Logic is 64-bit, we simply have to hope that more companies build 64-bit memory addressing into their plugins so that we don't have to use Logic's VM. This is mainly a concern for plugins like Stylus, Omnisphere, Superior / EZ drummer... things that load a large amount of samples. This is why I was hoping LP9 would be 64-bit, or at least that we'd see a 64-bit update with the appearance of Snow Leopard, I'm thinking it will be another year... which is much too long. LP9 is great, but keep in mind that it also has a larger memory footprint then LP8... the posts from the links above detail this... but from my testing LP9 uses 0.7GB MORE then LP8... with my default "empty" template. That's a lot more and essentially renders LP9 useless for me with larger orchestral projects.

Just be sure that after you freeze, to save and re-open the session otherwise it won't help... only works with EXS, but it does help. Adding RAM to your system is always good... Unfortunately, in this case it won't help you in regards to loading more within Logic, it will probably make Logic a little snappier but as a 32-bit app Logic is bound by the 4GB memory limit... but... RAM is so much cheaper then it used to be... when I upgraded to my Mac Pro ... I just bought the 16GB of RAM from OWC, outright... for like $400. It depends on your budget etc... but RAM always helps... and once Logic is 64-bit, you'll be all set... which will hopefully happen within a year. I'm not sure what types of libraries / instruments you're using, but Kontakt 3.5 is a big help... loading as much as you can within Kontakt 3.5 instances - because it loads all the samples EXTERNAL to Logic's virtual memory... the only thing that loads into Logic's memory is the actual AU Kontakt plugin instances... which don't take up too much memory at all.

I posted this in another thread, but looks like Logic 9 has a larger memory footprint then Logic 8. My empty template in LP8 uses 0.7 GB less of Logic's virtual memory then LP9. You can check this by opening the "Empty" project template in LP8 and then in LP9... once the template is loaded just check the Virtual Memory in Activity Monitor. So if you were crashing in LP8 due to Logic's virtual memory hitting 4GB, it's going to be hitting that limit even sooner now in Logic 9. Until Logic is a 64-bit app, this will continue happening. I've been hoping for this 64-bit update for some time now, barely getting by with big projects in LP8. Now that LP9 has come without a 64-bit version, I'm really hoping that a 64-bit update will come along side Snow Leopard, but I'm not holding my breath. The last big code change Apple did to Logic was back when they coded it for Intel... not only did they charge for that update, but it was long overdue. One workaround that I've been using in LP8 (will work with LP9 as well) is by freezing tracks - sort of. This will only help those of you that load lots of EXS instruments. EXS IS able to load into RAM outside of Logic, but from my experience this doesn't happen until you load a certain amount of EXS samples... that is loading the initial EXS instruments doesn't load them outside of Logic's memory like the new Kontakt 3.5 does. So the first bit of EXS will actually contribute to increasing Logic's virtual memory. Anyhow, if you've got a template and you're using lots of EXS, but for this session you don't plan on using the Strings that are loaded, then click the freeze button on the instruments you don't plan on using for this project, and hit the space bar immediately followed by "command-*period*". Logic will start and then stop the freeze, thus creating very small freeze files for the tracks (~4KB). Logic will now see these tracks as frozen. Save the project, and then re-open it... Logic will NOT load the semi-frozen tracks into memory because it thinks they're frozen... and so you'll have some extra RAM. Of course if you want to use the frozen track, clicking the freeze button off will force Logic to load the samples. If you use this template often, by doing a save-as or whatever, simply copy the 4KB freeze files to the "Freeze Files" folder of the new project. Of course you can always just take the EXS instance out as well... but I don't do this cause I might eventually want to grab the frozen instrument quickly.

On a similar topic - Logic 9 has a larger memory footprint then Logic 8. My empty template in LP8 uses 0.7 GB less of Logic's virtual memory then LP9. So if you've been having crashes in LP8 due to Logic's virtual memory hitting 4GB, it's going to be hitting that limit even sooner now. I have seen this with LP8, but it will only use a certain amount of Logic's VM, and then the more you load - it will load in its own memory server. I'm pretty sure I read a post here that stated this is indeed how the new mmap EXS memory feature was setup... that is that it doesn't just start loading into it's own memory server. I'm interested to see how the developer's respond.

This concerns me... since the scale of Logic's faders are now different, will an L8 song containing volume automation rides sound different in L9? Unless Apple imports the previous fader resolution with LP8 projects, which I again can't test at the moment... or "converts" the automation to LP9 resolution, then a MIDI value of 80 which say is -3.0 db in LP8, could be a db value of -4.0db in LP9... and thus things would sound different. Essentially the LP8 project opened in LP9 would have it's volume automation scaled.