dinofond

This is 100% correct. .DLL is the Windows extension name for shared libraries, period. .so is the Linux name. .dylib is the MacOS X name. But they're all the same. Java has nothing to do with it, and in fact I fail to see the point of your last sentence except to get mention this language. "open source". "Windows". Nevermind... That's funny, I've been a Linux admin since 1996, I've admined 1000+ machines at one job, but never have I seen a ".dll" file in sight. I just double-checked just in case. And on my Mac, the only .DLL files Spotlight finds right now are actually Symbian .DLL from an application for my cell phone that I left uncompressed somewhere in a folder. Yeah, right... Cygwin is an implementation of standard Unix libraries for the Windows win32 subsystem, that allows one to recompile and use software written for Unix and Linux under Windows. It has obviously no business under OS X, which is already a Unix OS. Apache has nothing to do with it what-so-ever! Man, seriously, are you trying to look smart abusing this fine crew of audio guys ? Unfortunately, a few IT double agents are hidden amongst the bunch Man, this is the straw that broke it... This sounds so much like the fake computer talk in Hollywood movies it's too funny I didn't mean to be rude at first, but let's make this clear for others now: you are a fraud who is obviously trying to turn non specialists heads with giberrish. Do you "BASH" networks like you "compile" audio signals ? Let's keep to the perceived differences between Logic and Pro Tools, shall we ? At least anyone is free to claim their own opinion about that, just don't try rationalizing it using subjects you obviously don't master. I'll stop here... Oh forgive me, I thought you were a software engineer not a linux admin. I stand corrected Why don't you post under your normal user name ok? I highly doubt your some lurker from a far that just decided to flame arbitrarily here. I have a great idea, why don't we start showing IP addresses publicly in this forum? I really have my doubts. Why would you apologize to a group of people you don't even know, totally illogical. You screwed the pooch on that one son, never show your cards if you're going to bluff. I'm not abusing anyone. I have an opinion and I'm stating it. This is just like every other thread I have seen on this subject, it ends up a bunch of flames and that's not good for anyone who is seeking an answer is it? No one here who thinks the two sound different is going to get anywhere by you accusing me of abusing people so please stop, that's a complete fabrication. If I offended you I apologize, that was never my intention but your accusations are offensive, unwarranted and untrue. I'm grateful your OS X machine only has one DLL, but mine has plenty, why is that? Please explain? I don't have any instance of cygwin whatsoever on the machine I took the screen shot of (because I removed apache, check the man for apache in Darwin) what are these DLL's doing on my machine and why are they documented in the link I provided? It's funny you say "Let's keep to the perceived differences between Logic and Pro Tools, shall we ?" How convenient you seem to want the last word, that's not very balanced or equal is it? I work in IS, I have a degree and I am no fraud, that's a weak statement by an un-knowledgeable person who is looking to me like he over far head Mr. Linux admin. I have even posted code that supports my opinion, why don't you comment on that? Your personal attacks are not only ignorant, the are a blatant a violation of any rules of proper civilized debate and possibly this TOS of this board. Your language is as far off as your CS knowledge is, accusing me of being abusive then calling me a fraud, that's called hypocrisy. The fact of the matter is I openly disagreed with the owner of this board about something and you didn't like it. If you were any kind of decent person you would apologize.

Correct - it does NOT use DLLs. It uses something very similar in concept called shared libraries, but they are NOT called DLLs. There is a reason why Mac users do not have to deal with what Windows users call "DLL Hell", and why many applications are so much easier to install & uninstall as compared to Windows. For your reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_%28computing%29 Furthermore, it appears you are looking at a directory containing "cygwin", which is a Linux-like environment for WINDOWS. And to be perfectly honest, I am unfamiliar with the coding guidelines for creating OS X shared libraries, so if a developer wishes to create a shared library and for some reason give it a DLL extension, then maybe that's legal - I don't know - but it's still technically not a DLL. Sorry, dude. The larger point is that whether or not an application uses a DLL or a shared library to implement a particular piece of functionality is irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is whether digital data coming from the A/D converter gets altered in any way by the DAW as it is saved to disk, which I think has already been settled. Peace, PBenz out "And to be perfectly honest, I am unfamiliar with the coding guidelines for creating OS X shared libraries." Well then let me enlighten you: Firstly, a .dll is a type of shared library (or what engineers used to call shared libraries in a sense, more on that later) i.e. Dynamic Link Library. Pure JAVA had a lot to do with this due to the fact it looked so promising at that time in CS history. Second, .dll's were adopted by the open source community quite some time ago, every Linux, BSD and Windows OS released in the last 8-ish or so years contains files with the extension .dll. I would be happy to post screen shots of Linux servers from my office doing the same wild card search for .dll as I did for this Darwin OS if you would like. How you could surmise from that screen shot of that "wild card" search was in a directory called "cygwin" is a complete mystery to me. Third, "cygwin" is used in the Darwin / BSD (OS X) environment for apache, a web server, not for a linux like environment for windows. I do use it in shell script form when I BASH networks to access windows servers / nodes on a rainbow (SAMBA) network from the shell (because I have a macbook pro on my desk) or VI on linux nodes and servers. In other words It's nice to be in the shell and use ls -l instead of dir and it will function in that capacity. However simply typing in cygwin into google with copy and paste from the top of the first web page you come across does not mean it's Unix or Windows related or a blanket statement for this conversation. The very top line of the first google return result is the Quote you posted "Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows." Did you happen to notice the second line the said? "A DLL (cygwin1.dll) which acts as a Linux API emulation layer providing substantial Linux API (or ABI) functionality?" I did. Fourth, most of the DLL libraries in the left screen shot are used for Real Player, the ones all being numbers only in the file names being linked dynamically to codex. They in fact do run in OS X which completely and conclusively proves that OS X does use .dll's. They would not be present on peoples versions of OS X for no reason would they? Why would OS X even read the syntax to show the extension or assign an icon if that was true? Why would all of the dll's in that screen shot's creation date be in 2001 the year the first full version of OS X came out? Why, because they were put there with purpose. I quote this specifically all the way back to OS 8.1 (see link) http://members.tripod.com/MacFreeBees/readme/realproducer.html Fifth, a shared library (.sl and sometimes .so) are static. A .dll is dynamic, that's the difference between the two. Rather you think it's legal or not, which by any technical definition doesn't make any sense in common coding practices or logic (no pun intended). Darwin uses Dynamic Shared Libraries in many forms. Most have the extension .dll and are in fact a .dll at load time as well as runtime rather you want to call then Dynamic Link Libraries or Dynamic Linking Libraries. It just doesn't matter, ford and Chevy are still both automobiles in the same respect. Sixth, "Windows DLL hell" is caused buy nothing more then code not properly tested and debugged as to bring it to the market place faster to produce higher compensatory profits for a large corporation run a muck, nothing more. It has nothing to do with what we are speaking of here. Seventh, From the very wikipedeia article you linked and I quote "Most Unix-like systems have a "search path" specifying file system directories in which to look for dynamic libraries." Eighth, Microsoft did not invent the DLL. DLL's have been around longer then I or BSD have. The DLL (Dynamic link-ing libraries) being born in 1964 and Free BSD being birthed in 1978 (quoted from your wikipedia article). Ninth, a link to a patch for libobjc (the GNU objective C Compiler) authored by David Ayers (as in Lucent technology, you're a coder you know who he is) which clearly shows the creation of a DLL for use with Darwin. He repeatedly refers to DLL's in the comment structure as library items, he does so because they are the same thing outside of one being static and one being dynamic. The code can be found here: http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2003-08/msg01609.html Lastly, again from the very wikipedia article you quoted under naming: " GNU/Linux, Solaris and other System V Release 4 derivatives, and BSD variants libfoo.a and libfoo.so files are placed in directories like /lib, /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib. The filenames always start with lib, and end with .a (archive, static library) or .so (shared object, or dynamically linked library dll), with an optional interface number. For example libfoo.so.2 is the second major interface revision of the dynamically linked library libfoo. Old Unix versions would use major and minor library revision numbers (libfoo.so.1.2) while contemporary Unixes will only use major revision numbers (libfoo.so.1). Dynamically loaded libraries are placed in /usr/libexec and similar directories. The .la files sometimes found in the library directories are libtool archives, not usable by the system as such. The largest point being it's ok to agree to disagree, isn't it? The larger point here being that Pro Tools and Logic sound different to some peoples ears. The smaller point being you said "OS X does not use DLL's." I feel quite at liberty to respond and properly correct your misunderstanding which I have thoroughly accomplished here. Why pro tools sounds different isn't too huge of a mystery to myself and the subject has been flamed and chewed to death in many "o" places on the web, we are not the first. However I'm willing to take my valuable time to try to collectively be a part of the people who conclusively figure it out. I'm not the only person on the planet that thinks it's the engine. As boring as it may seem and In the interest of finding real answers to good questions using good science, I choose not to create new user accounts to post my knowledge here. Sound very well could be subjective to the listener's here ears I believe. Warm Regards and sleep well

Oh really, OS X doesn't use DLL's? http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j101/dinofond/sigh_no_more_morons.jpg

That may be true in some cases where the audio is never compressed but honestly there's no way to know that if you can't see the source code for the engine. The one I have worked on did not. And if in fact everything did stream PCM, why would you even need a sound engine? the VI's and Plug ins don't use it. Also as I recall (and I may be wrong on this) PCM only runs 16 bit. I can verify that giga studio does not use PCM and it's really IMO a DAW within itself. I don't want to pee on the tree here, I'm not flaming and that's not my intention. However I do have experience in writing software, lots of it, over 10 years of experience and I humbly disagree with the hypothesis stated here. I worked for a company, lets just say it's a world known sound player / recorder readily available today that millions have on there computer systems. I can only base what i say on what knowledge I have acquired especially working on this project. I believe the audio is compiled by the sound engine in pro tools and I stand by that statement.

I respectfully and un-flamingly disagree ( I have all the respect for you in the world). That would imply that all sound engines no mater how the source code was written would conclude exactly to the same algorithmic end. That is incorrect. To put it in layman's terms, Take an acoustic guitar with your favorite flavor microphone. Split the signal properly and record the same signal on two different DAW'S at the same time. Then analyze those so called 0's and 1's in the binary 8, 16 or whichever metamathematical form or analysis one would choose to use, they would not match. They DO match, because at that point there is no algorithm applied to the signal. Once again, what you have to understand is that when Logic records digital audio, it just takes the 0s and 1s coming from the audio interface and places them in a data file called audio file. There is NO PROCESSING applied to the audio, therefore no changes in the structure of the digital data representing the audio. Let's say you're writing a DAW program. What would you change in the 0s and 1s coming from the audio interface before putting them in the audio file? Nothing, of course, why would you change anything? The digital data is created by the A/D converters, and all Logic does is place that data in a computer file. That's it. That would imply that the A/D converters would send a signal that already was compiled. That is simply impossible for all the different kinds of DAW software to understand. For instance Logic Pro 7x is written in Objective C, Pro tools is written in C++, in order to even create a simple metamathematical sum (1+1=2) they have to be compiled and or Interpreted by a DLL structure . The sound engine relies on the compiler and or interpreter (also known partially as Dynamic Link Libraries) to function. If you have any knowledge of software and how it works go look at the sound engine source for Ardour and then Crystal audio. There will be large differences in how the sound engine processes the actually binary within the code itself.

I respectfully and un-flamingly disagree ( I have all the respect for you in the world). That would imply that all sound engines no mater how the source code was written would conclude exactly to the same algorithmic end. That is incorrect. To put it in layman's terms, Take an acoustic guitar with your favorite flavor microphone. Split the signal properly and record the same signal on two different DAW'S at the same time. Then analyze those so called 0's and 1's in the binary 8, 16 or whichever metamathematical form or analysis one would choose to use, they would not match.

Thanks, as I wasn't aware of this. It tells me my XS Key is fully functional. I'd asked about this at an Apple Store a couple of weeks ago when it had happened only two or three times over a week, and they suggested it could be the USB itself (BUT the slot works fine with my mouse, so, ehhh, who knows). I have an appointment tomorrow now that it's gotten worse. At least it's good to rule out the update as I go in to ask again. Thanks, cb I have had to replace mine twice due to exactly the same behavior. Apple was nice enough to give me the first replacement free =)

I have read a lot in the last year about this very subject, many on the web have discussed it in various places. To my ears Pro Tools does not sound the same as Logic (or cubase / Sonar for that matter), I hear a difference. I far prefer the over all sound of Logic Pro, it seems clearer and captures the accurate essence of the room (Just MHO). I guess My point is I know of others have had this very same discussion.

I'm still afraid of security updates after 10.4.9 Has anyone installed the new update yet and did it hurt the integrity of their plug ins and or Logic? Thanks!

Where do you think my icon came from all these months

macbooks use SATA And your point is?

http://memorysolutions.com/maproinco2du.html

It's a Standard Notebook Hard Drive, same spec. is in all the Macbook and Macbook Pros

Cool thanks thedomus. I am buying a Macpro in the next year but not being able to upgrade the processor would have been a deal breaker. I was so disappointed when I saw my intel processor was soldered to my Main System board in my macbook pro, I have updated both my previous power books. That information really was helpful!

Everything good here so far I spent about 30 minutes using RMX and BFD getting percussion together then added some EXS 24 strings and voices, all went well. A quick run around the OS seems stable too.