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Article: "Apple Pro Audio Team 'Decimated'"


D.D. Jackson

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This is how I look at all of this. . .

 

My current version of Logic Pro and my Mac Pro work really well together. It's stable; it meets all of my current (and near future) compositional, sequencing and recording needs. If any part of this rumor is true, and I've read other posts to suggest otherwise, and there is no further development for Logic Pro, then I guess I'll just have to learn to live with what I have. What I have is wonderfully stable and should last me a long time.

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Wow, completely unsubstantiated rumor from a virtually industry source, shoring up their total speculation with the same old Interwebz crap about how Apple doesn't love us because of FInal Cut X. That's solid!

 

For the last time, Final Cut X was not intended to be a slap in the face: obviously, like any company, Apple doesn't release software as a way of saying "screw you." They honestly felt they had improved Final Cut, and simply misjudged how their user base would react to the changes.

 

As for a "decimated" team and no plans to replace anybody: Apple has open job tickets for audio software engineers to work on Logic.

 

So, who are you going to believe? A half-baked rumor-mill website for Prop Tools fans, or Apple's own HR department?

 

It's no skin off my nose either way, as I'm back to using Digital Performer for everything, but I really get tired of noise in the Echo Chamber. Sounds to me like some slackers got fired and shot their mouths off in disgruntlement.

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One day at the university, a professor of languages was giving a lecture and he said to the class, "There are many examples in almost every language of a double negative that means a positive but there's no examples anywhere of a double positive that means a negative."

 

After several moments of silence from the students someone at the back says, "Yeah, right".

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This is how I look at all of this. . .

 

My current version of Logic Pro and my Mac Pro work really well together. It's stable; it meets all of my current (and near future) compositional, sequencing and recording needs. If any part of this rumor is true, and I've read other posts to suggest otherwise, and there is no further development for Logic Pro, then I guess I'll just have to learn to live with what I have. What I have is wonderfully stable and should last me a long time.

 

I don't agree with that mindset. You would be stuck with a computer that has a black and white screen from 1985. Things are only going to get better and better in the years to come.

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One day at the university, a professor of languages was giving a lecture and he said to the class, "There are many examples in almost every language of a double negative that means a positive but there's no examples anywhere of a double positive that means a negative."

 

After several moments of silence from the students someone at the back says, "Yeah, right".

 

ROFL!

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I don't agree with that mindset.....................

I totally agree with this mindset. Once you achieve stability in your system, stick with it like glue. Don't f$@%ing change it unless you absolutely have to. Why? Because you can't put a high enough price on system stability. And any time you change your system (update OS, update plugins, add new apps) you run the risk of destabilizing it.

 

Of course, if you only do music as a hobby, any approach to altering one's system is fair game. Wanna update it on a whim? Go for it. But if you're a professional, you don't f*%@ around.

 

I'm not advocating that anyone hide their head in the sand and not stay abreast of developments and offerings in software and hardware. There comes a time when the only way to achieve certain artistic goals is to update hardware/software. But the notion of staying current and being creative are indeed 100% mutually exclusive.

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+1 Ski's and efiebke's comments...

 

Newer does not always equate to better.... and certainly not more stable in many cases..

 

It is all down to priorities... and where one's priorities lay...

 

As for the original OP's link...

 

Anyone who actually has any clue as to what will or will not be happening to Logic in the future.. will not be making any comments as they would all be heavily wrapped up in NDA's anyhow... and they would be stupid to make any such comments publicly or otherwise because of this.

 

It's all just unsubstantiated rumor / gossip / guess work / made up stories... until Apple make a public announcement.

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I totally agree with this mindset.(...)

Ok, so you have a stable system running Logic 1.0 and your floppy drive fails. Now what?

 

Do you see my point? I never said to always be bleeding edge, but to lock yourself forever in a time warp and ignore the new features and technology, which serve to make audio production faster, easier, and more fun, is asinine.

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For some people... running a good stable system is more beneficial than updating to the 'latest and greatest' versions...

 

Its a similar reasoning as to why some people continue to maintain older cars... simply because they are better for their needs than the newer models even if they don't have all the latest "bells and whistles"

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For some people... running a good stable system is more beneficial than updating to the 'latest and greatest' versions...

 

Its a similar reasoning as to why some people continue to maintain older cars... simply because they are better for their needs than the newer models even if they don't have all the latest "bells and whistles"

 

I don't think you're hearing me.

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One day at the university, a professor of languages was giving a lecture and he said to the class, "There are many examples in almost every language of a double negative that means a positive but there's no examples anywhere of a double positive that means a negative.",

 

After several moments of silence from the students someone at the back says, "Yeah, right".

 

Not sure how this relates to the thread, but it's a damn good story! :D

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I totally agree with this mindset.(...)

Ok, so you have a stable system running Logic 1.0 and your floppy drive fails. Now what?

 

You asked "now what?" I'd say, "so what?" Why the adamance that people should update? If someone is successfully making music on a Commodore 64, who's to complain?

 

I never said to always be bleeding edge, but to lock yourself forever in a time warp and ignore the new features and technology, which serve to make audio production faster, easier, and more fun, is asinine.

 

Asinine. That's as extreme as are your examples of Logic 1.0 and "time warps". I would highly doubt that anyone is running such ancient software and working professionally. But even if they were, technology itself is never the compelling force behind creativity. A composer colleague of mine is working on DP 7.0 and continues to write and realize amazing music. An engineer colleague works on an OS9-based PT system. We're not talking bedroom enthusiasts here, we're talking professionals with 30 years of experience.

 

Are they living in a time warp? Yeah, the technologists, fanboys, and cynics can agree that they are and snicker about it on forums. Meanwhile, those composers, producers, and engineers are probably working at much higher levels in the business than any one of them can possibly hope to imagine.

 

And surely I'm not saying that more contemporary systems offer more flexibility and creative opportunities. But you have to put this all in context of what each individual's needs are. There can be no herd mentality when it comes to music technology and the artistic endeavors it's designed to serve.

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Not to be alarmist, but this article caught my eye and I was wondering if anyone knew if there was any truth to it?:

 

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2012/11/25/apple-pro-audio-applications-team-decimated.html

 

- robjohn

Considering the source (and author) of the article, I am not concerned. To me it's just some kind of propaganda to drag Logic users to ProTools...

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I totally agree with this mindset.(...)

Ok, so you have a stable system running Logic 1.0 and your floppy drive fails. Now what?

 

You asked "now what?" I'd say, "so what?" Why the adamance that people should update? If someone is successfully making music on a Commodore 64, who's to complain?

 

I never said to always be bleeding edge, but to lock yourself forever in a time warp and ignore the new features and technology, which serve to make audio production faster, easier, and more fun, is asinine.

 

Asinine. That's as extreme as are your examples of Logic 1.0 and "time warps". I would highly doubt that anyone is running such ancient software and working professionally. But even if they were, technology itself is never the compelling force behind creativity. A composer colleague of mine is working on DP 7.0 and continues to write and realize amazing music. An engineer colleague works on an OS9-based PT system. We're not talking bedroom enthusiasts here, we're talking professionals with 30 years of experience.

 

Are they living in a time warp? Yeah, the technologists, fanboys, and cynics can agree that they are and snicker about it on forums. Meanwhile, those composers, producers, and engineers are probably working at much higher levels in the business than any one of them can possibly hope to imagine.

 

And surely I'm not saying that more contemporary systems offer more flexibility and creative opportunities. But you have to put this all in context of what each individual's needs are. There can be no herd mentality when it comes to music technology and the artistic endeavors it's designed to serve.

 

It is asinine to bury your head in the sand and ignore the new features completely. You are not hearing me either.

 

And your argument about the difference between a "pro" and a "hobbyist" is also a complete red herring and nonsense. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless.

 

I've got anecdotes too. I watched a video earlier today where one of the sound guys for depeche mode went over part of their stage setup. They have a mac dedicated to drum processing - they take the drum guy's trap set mics and run them through ableton live's effects in real time to make them sound more like synthesized drums, while maintaining the stage presence of live drums.

 

This isn't possible without *gasp* trying new things, experimentation and testing. Fossils and stubborn people don't set aside time to test and experiment.

 

So would I then draw a line here and make the claim that "depeche mode does this" - therefore it's okay, they surely have 30 years in the business, they also work at "much higher levels in the business" than any (bedroom producer) can possibly hope to imagine.

 

No, I wouldn't make such a ridiculous comparison.

 

The patronizing attitudes on this forum are really bordering on ridiculous sometimes. Do you really think I don't understand what stability is and why it's important?

 

You have taken what I said to an absolute extreme. I never said to install every new update and be on the bleeding edge. But keep your ear to the ground with what's new and what's possible in new software - for example: FLEX AUDIO. Jesus christ.

 

In 20 years, technology could advance so significantly that the process and time required to create music could be reduced by half or more. It is beyond absurd to ignore it. The fossils and people stuck in their ways will always ignore it, and the new generation that fully embraces everything that is new will run circles around them as they become more and more irrelevant.

Edited by robertg
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this might be true and not a rumor, because with recent updates there were no real changes done to Logic that are essential... for example simple thing as piano roll keys dont light up when playing midi... and a lot lot more other stuff to be improved .....

 

but i am sure Logic will see great future updates...

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this might be true and not a rumor, because with recent updates there were no real changes done to Logic that are essential... for example simple thing as piano roll keys dont light up when playing midi... and a lot lot more other stuff to be improved .....

 

but i am sure Logic will see great future updates...

 

I think they were too busy fiximg problems to introduce new features. But what do I know, I'm a fossil :mrgreen:

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It is asinine to bury your head in the sand and ignore the new features completely. You are not hearing me either.

From my previous post, what part of "I'm not advocating that anyone hide their head in the sand and not stay abreast of developments and offerings in software and hardware" didn't you understand?

 

And your argument about the difference between a "pro" and a "hobbyist" is also a complete red herring and nonsense.

I'm pointing this out solely for the ridiculousness of the statement. Doesn't merit a response.

 

I've got anecdotes too.

That's nice.

 

You complain about a "patronizing" attitude here on the forum, but to be fair, we should include your condescending offerings of "living in a time warp" and "fossils".

 

You have taken what I said to an absolute extreme. I never said to install every new update and be on the bleeding edge. But keep your ear to the ground with what's new and what's possible in new software - for example: FLEX AUDIO. Jesus christ.

Mon dieu! See above.

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It is asinine to bury your head in the sand and ignore the new features completely. You are not hearing me either.

It is only asinine in your opinion.... and from your perspective. This doesn't apply to everyone by a long shot...

 

For some users of Logic, there is no need for new features... Some people are quite happy with what is already available to them... and for the most part, most users of Logic haven't fully explored all the current set of features, let alone anything new that might be added later...

 

I use Logic on a daily basis for my work and have done so for many years now and yet, I don't think a day goes by when I don't learn something new i can do in Logic... be it via the environment or in exploring one of the built in plugins... or any combination of these plugins.. There is just so much to learn 'as is' without more new stuff being added on... and while I enjoy exploring new ideas and implementations.. in my spare time... For my work, I stick to what i know and what has been thoroughly tested.. and if that means sticking with Logic 9 for the next few years then so be it...

 

Hell, I used Creator and later Notator for many years past it's "sell by date" simply because I knew what i was doing... could work effectively, efficiently and quickly without any real issues... I only updated to Logic (and took about a year off from work to do so) when I could afford to stop work.. and when I could no longer get the required hardware... to replace what i had, as it reached the end of it's useable lifetime. Had it not been for those two major factors, I'd probably still be using Notator for the majority of my midi work simply because i knew my way around it.. found it to be incredibly stable and i could do everything I needed to do, in the creation of my music simply by using that setup.

 

Logic did open up new doors for me, musically for sure... but it took time to learn all of these new features and frankly, it cost me money in the time taken off work, to do so... so I only upgraded when I had to.. rather than simply because i wanted to try out new stuff!

 

Others may have different priorities... and that's fine.. but one shouldn't assume everyone has the same priorities as you Robert, or as you seem to be implying. If it works for you, then great.. but for me and others, a stable reliable setup that I know well.. is far more important than any number of new features that i might or might not use in the future.

 

"Each to their own" as always.....

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Are Depeche Mode the "new generation"?!

 

How is listening to professionals who know their craft inside-out being patronized? They don't all agree, but they generally show each other respect.

 

What happened to "each to their own" or "horses for courses"?

 

Jeez. Chill.

No, I make a valid point here, people misunderstand it and then proceed to lecture me. It's a bit tiresome.

 

And Depeche mode = seasoned veterans, not the new generation.

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It is asinine to bury your head in the sand and ignore the new features completely. You are not hearing me either.

 

It is only asinine in your opinion.... and from your perspective. This doesn't apply to everyone by a long shot...

 

For some users of Logic, there is no need for new features... Some people are quite happy with what is already available to them... and for the most part, most users of Logic haven't fully explored all the current set of features, let alone anything new that might be added later...

 

I use Logic on a daily basis for my work and have done so for many years now and yet, I don't think a day goes by when I don't learn something new i can do in Logic... be it via the environment or in exploring one of the built in plugins... or any combination of these plugins.. There is just so much to learn 'as is' without more new stuff being added on... and while I enjoy exploring new ideas and implementations.. in my spare time... For my work, I stick to what i know and what has been thoroughly tested.. and if that means sticking with Logic 9 for the next few years then so be it...

 

Hell, I used Creator and later Notator for many years past it's "sell by date" simply because I knew what i was doing... could work effectively, efficiently and quickly without any real issues... I only updated to Logic (and took about a year off from work to do so) when I could afford to stop work.. and when I could no longer get the required hardware... to replace what i had, as it reached the end of it's useable lifetime. Had it not been for those two major factors, I'd probably still be using Notator for the majority of my midi work simply because i knew my way around it.. found it to be incredibly stable and i could do everything I needed to do, in the creation of my music simply by using that setup.

 

Logic did open up new doors for me, musically for sure... but it took time to learn all of these new features and frankly, it cost me money in the time taken off work, to do so... so I only upgraded when I had to.. rather than simply because i wanted to try out new stuff!

 

Others may have different priorities... and that's fine.. but one shouldn't assume everyone has the same priorities as you Robert, or as you seem to be implying. If it works for you, then great.. but for me and others, a stable reliable setup that I know well.. is far more important than any number of new features that i might or might not use in the future.

 

"Each to their own" as always.....

 

Hah, my friend.. You are a contradiction and you probably don't even realize.. I assume you are not new to logic, may I ask.. What made you decide to update to version 9?

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Are Depeche Mode the "new generation"?!

 

How is listening to professionals who know their craft inside-out being patronized? They don't all agree, but they generally show each other respect.

 

What happened to "each to their own" or "horses for courses"?

 

Jeez. Chill.

 

No, I make a valid point here, people misunderstand it and then proceed to lecture me. It's a bit tiresome.

 

And Depeche mode = seasoned veterans, not the new generation.

 

Maybe it's the way you make your point, it's not exactly de-escalation.

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Hah, my friend.. You are a contradiction and you probably don't even realize.. I assume you are not new to logic, may I ask.. What made you decide to update to version 9?

 

Compatibility with the new hardware I had to buy.... to replace my older less reliable equipment.. and to provide support for my clients who use L9... but I only switched to L9 for making music myself.... once it had been fully tested and proven stable on my testbed systems... and in all honesty there wasn't any great leap in terms of changes between L8 and L9... I don't believe I really use any of the new L9 features that much myself... such as Flex or the Guitar Amps.. Maybe the only thing is 64bit mode to handle the large sample libraries i use...

 

I don't see any contradiction with that and what i just said... and so I won't be updating to the next major version of Logic for making music myself.. until it's both stable and there is any real benefit for me doing so over and above what L9 offers today. As I don't know what the next Logic may offer..(and of course, nor does any other user know this) I cannot predict when or even if i will update... and as i said, I'm still learning so much about L9, there is no rush for me to do so.

 

Do you realize that the way you 'make your points' is very much akin to trolling? Maybe you should take a careful look at this instead of accusing others of 'lecturing you'... or describing others as 'fossils'... Not exactly helpful comments you know...

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Hah, my friend.. You are a contradiction and you probably don't even realize.. I assume you are not new to logic, may I ask.. What made you decide to update to version 9?

 

Compatibility with the new hardware I had to buy.... to replace my older less reliable equipment.. and to provide support for my clients who use L9... but I only switched to L9 for making music myself.... once it had been fully tested and proven stable on my testbed systems... and in all honesty there wasn't any great leap in terms of changes between L8 and L9... I don't believe I really use any of the new L9 features that much myself... such as Flex or the Guitar Amps.. Maybe the only thing is 64bit mode to handle the large sample libraries i use...

 

I don't see any contradiction with that and what i just said... and so I won't be updating to the next major version of Logic for making music myself.. until it's both stable and there is any real benefit for me doing so over and above what L9 offers today. As I don't know what the next Logic may offer..(and of course, nor does any other user know this) I cannot predict when or even if i will update... and as i said, I'm still learning so much about L9, there is no rush for me to do so.

 

Do you realize that the way you 'make your points' is very much akin to trolling? Maybe you should take a careful look at this instead of accusing others of 'lecturing you'... or describing others as 'fossils'... Not exactly helpful comments you know...

 

The point is, you upgraded. People upgrade for new hardware, for new features, improvements, any combination or all three.

 

This is the 2nd time you've accused me of trolling, I don't appreciate it and I propose that word doesn't mean what you think it does if you think this is trolling.

 

To you and Ski both:

 

I suspect that you have had this conversation 100 times already with others and were all too ready to pounce into "lecture mode" on auto-pilot to immediately correct any of these forum noobs that jump in with OMG NEW VERSION EVERYONE MUST UPGRADE NOW.

 

So, sorry if my tone has some vitriol to it, but I am tired of being lectured to. I am not a novice. I understand that in a business setting it is stupid to jump feet first into an update and never advocated doing so. You do that after testing, preferably with a staging machine.

 

And with that said, the point remains that the people who choose to be "stuck in time" are cheating themselves out of conveniences and features. X.1 editions now mature in a matter of months, not years. All these people running on OS9 or earlier, or Logic 4 on windows have other reasons for doing so. It's not just about "stability," cause Logic is stable now.. Laziness, fear of change, having to learn new ways, being too set in their ways, having to buy a new computer and spend a day customizing things, etc.. they're all factors.

 

Keep the old computer for old projects, start new projects on the new one. Rocket science I tell you.

 

Hell, a lot of people still produce and record music without a computer at all, but that's a whole different discussion.

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And with that said, the point remains that the people who choose to be "stuck in time" are cheating themselves out of conveniences and features. 1.1 editions now mature in a matter of months, not years. All these people running on OS9 or earlier, or Logic 4.X on windows have other reasons for doing so. It's not just about "stability," cause Logic is stable now.. Laziness, fear of change, having to learn new ways, being too set in their ways, having to buy a new computer and spend a day customizing things, etc.. they're all factors.

 

The fact you keep repeating something that clearly seems to be inflammatory comments..... is the reason why I believe your tone and attitude resembles 'trolling'... as you continue to make comments about others such as 'being lazy' or being a 'fossil' which are plainly meant as personal attacks... often used in a troll to obtain a response and create an argument just for the sake of it..

 

You, yourself have been complaining about the instability of Logic / OS because you upgraded to a newer version... without doing exactly what you later 'preach' which is to do so only after testing whenever possible... You could have easily made a second partition on your HD, (or used an external HD) installed the new OS on that and then tested out Logic with it... But you apparently didn't do so and you then complained several times about something you caused in part, yourself.

 

So yes, it is all about stability for most people...

 

Again, newer does not always equate to better... Sometimes yes but sometimes no too...

 

I much prefer a Ferrari GTO 250 over any of the recent ones... and having driven a 250 and F 40 at length... even though the 250 is "out of date' and doesn't have all the 'new features' of the F40.. i still think the 250 is the best Ferrari they ever made... Nothing to do with being 'stuck in the mud' or 'not wishing to move with the times" it simply is a much better car imho.. that suits my driving style... and that's the key.. It's my opinion.. my choice... and frankly I don't give two hoots what anyone else says... For me, that was the best car i have ever driven and I would buy one in a heartbeat if i could afford it these days. :)

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To you and Ski both:

 

I suspect that you have had this conversation 100 times already with others and were all too ready to pounce into "lecture mode" on auto-pilot to immediately correct any of these forum noobs that jump in with OMG NEW VERSION EVERYONE MUST UPGRADE NOW.

 

I'll can overlook the fact that you've overlooked many of the points I made in which (dammit) we are in agreement. But I can't overlook your assumption that I post stuff without giving what I'm write any thought. Considering yourself having virtually received "the bird".

Edited by ski
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And with that said, the point remains that the people who choose to be "stuck in time" are cheating themselves out of conveniences and features. 1.1 editions now mature in a matter of months, not years. All these people running on OS9 or earlier, or Logic 4.X on windows have other reasons for doing so. It's not just about "stability," cause Logic is stable now.. Laziness, fear of change, having to learn new ways, being too set in their ways, having to buy a new computer and spend a day customizing things, etc.. they're all factors.

 

The fact you keep repeating something that clearly seems to be inflammatory comments..... is the reason why I believe your tone and attitude resembles 'trolling'... as you continue to make comments about others such as 'being lazy' or being a 'fossil' which are plainly meant as personal attacks... often used in a troll to obtain a response and create an argument just for the sake of it..

 

You, yourself have been complaining about the instability of Logic / OS because you upgraded to a newer version... without doing exactly what you later 'preach' which is to do so only after testing whenever possible... You could have easily made a second partition on your HD, (or used an external HD) installed the new OS on that and then tested out Logic with it... But you apparently didn't do so and you then complained several times about something you caused in part, yourself.

 

So yes, it is all about stability for most people...

 

Again, newer does not always equate to better... Sometimes yes but sometimes no too...

 

I much prefer a Ferrari GTO 250 over any of the recent ones... and having driven a 250 and F 40 at length... even though the 250 is "out of date' and doesn't have all the 'new features' of the F40.. i still think the 250 is the best Ferrari they ever made... Nothing to do with being 'stuck in the mud' or 'not wishing to move with the times" it simply is a much better car imho.. that suits my driving style... and that's the key.. It's my opinion.. my choice... and frankly I don't give two hoots what anyone else says... For me, that was the best car i have ever driven and I would buy one in a heartbeat if i could afford it these days. :)

 

 

Ahh but I did. I have a fully intact and updated snow leopard/logic hard drive which was very easy to jump back to during the period when logic was virtually unusable. Normally I wouldn't even bother with that but I'm absolutely beside myself in how long that particular issue has been a problem and still is. If it were any other company besides apple, something like that would get fixed VERY fast because their business would depend on it.

 

If a new version of OS X comes out, I'll probably get a new drive for that one, maybe even an SSD since they're getting cheaper.

 

I do not make comments to evoke reactions. I'm very blunt and my filter might get turned down in proportion to how aggravated I can become.. don't read into it more than that

 

The car analogy is not applicable. A new car may offer new amenities, but you're still driving on the same roads from point A to B - and as such an old car is still ok.

 

With audio and computers in general it stands to reason that the way things will be done in 20 years or even 5 can be radically different. New methods of input, new ways to interact with tools. Better tools to manipulate audio. So it is counter-productive to completely ignore the trends.

 

It may be possible that your old car is not going to cut it in the future because it doesn't have hover capability and cannot fly. That's an extreme example but the reasoning is very sound.

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