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Sending Sysex patches from windows into Logic Pro [SOLVED]


1279micro

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Hi

 

Wonder if you can help me with a midi issue!

 

I have 3 x Roland D-550 rack synths and use a windows laptop that has the D-50 librarian to edit and store sysex patches in the librarian.

 

The 3 x D550 racks are connected to a MOTU midi express interface, both midi in and out for each, the MOTU is connected by USB cable to my MacBook running Logic Pro. My controller keyboard is a novation sl Mkii connected to my MacBook again with a USB cable handling the midi stuff within Logic.

 

I have each D550 set to a different midi channel and can play each one independently with the novation in logic, so I can record and play back midi and audio. Great so far.

 

However I want to connect and send Sysex patches from a D50 Librarian that sits on the separate windows laptop to each of the racks via logic independently, but can't figure out how, I've tried various combinations with midi cables, but with no success.

 

If it helps the novation controller has one midi in, two midi outs and one midi thru, none of which are being used and the MOTU midi interface still has 5 midi ins and outs free.

 

It is something that needs addressing in the Enviroment

 

Would be grateful for any help or advice!

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What I'd probably do is have a dedicated MIDI port from the PC into Logic.

 

In the click&ports layer in the environment, route that port only into three new instrument objects (via a channel splitter) which each output to the three D-550's.

 

Now, MIDI coming in on the PC input port will get sent directly to the D-550's, to let you send them sysex from the editor without hitting the Logic sequencer.

 

Give it a try, or if you have more specific requirements, get back to me and we'll see if we can get you going...

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The channel splitter isn't necessary - SysEx has no MIDI channel. You'll have to set different "Unit Numbers" or "ID Numbers" on your synths so the librarian can address them individually.

 

If you can't set that on your synths you can use the "Cable Switcher" Fader in the Environment to route the SysEx to the device you want.

 

If your librarian software needs bi-directional communication then you also need to cable the three D-550 ports from the "Physical Input" environment object to another Instrument object. Set the Port of the instrument object to the MIDI port which goes to your PC.

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Hi

 

First off, thank you both for taking the time to offer your help!

 

Ok this is where I'm at now.

 

Within the Logic Enviroment Click & Ports layer, I have cabled from the D-50 Librarian Port to a Cable Switcher and then from this a separate cable to each D-550, so when I set the output of the Cable Switcher to the corresponding unit and send a patch from the Librarian you can see the Sysex message in the monitor for each unit. However all that is happening is it changes the Bank & Patch number set by the librarian but not the patch itself.

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Yes, the Bank/Patch numbers are getting through to each D550 but not the Sysex patch data, even though I can see the Sysex info in each monitor cabled to each D550. So for example if I choose bank number 2, patch number 6 in the librarian and send a single patch, the receiving D550 midi message light flashes and its location is changed to 2:6 but the patch played is still the one stored at that location within the D550 and not the patch I am sending from the Librarian.

 

I have cabled the D550 ports from the physical input Enviroment to a new instrument and changed the port of the new instrument to that of the Librarian port, however this makes no difference to the above.

 

With regards to the correct configuration of the unit ID's for each D550 and software, I wouldn't know where to begin with this, perhaps you can advise of the procedure!

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Hi 1279,

 

First just try connecting the librarian PC straight to one D550 and make sure it works that way.

 

It sounds like your Environment is set up correctly, unless you need bi-directional communication.

 

Make sure you're not filtering any MIDI data in Project settings -> Midi -> Input Filter.

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Hi fastfourier

 

Yes the Librarian when connected directly to any of the D550's works a dream! I've been using it this way for over a year and has helped me design some extraordinary patches.

 

I have tried today to attempt a "Bulk Load" from the Librarian to one of the D550's and the message on the D550 screen read "MIDI ERROR COMMUNICATION"

 

I also attempted a "Bulk Dump" from D550 to Librarian and saw the status bar move on the Librarian and then stopped again with an error message.

 

In both cases the Sysex data is flowing through the monitor in Logic and its instantaneous as soon as I click the transfer button, very frustrating!

 

Good suggestion and yes I have made sure there is no MIDI filtering in the Project settings.

 

I have now made contact with the designer of the Librarian, so will see if anything new comes from that.

 

Thanks again for your help.

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I can transmit bulk dumps fine through Logic here, so I'm afraid I'm out of ideas!

 

The only thing that springs to mind is that the Librarian is transmitting too fast (although that shouldn't be a problem) - See if you can slow it down.

 

A temporary fix, if the Librarian can save, is to throw the .syx/.mid files across the network and send them from the Mac with the snoize SysEx Librarian. It's not the solution you were looking for but at least beats fumbling around with MIDI cables in the back of the rack. ...

 

Good luck!

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I also attempted a "Bulk Dump" from D550 to Librarian and saw the status bar move on the Librarian and then stopped again with an error message.

 

In both cases the Sysex data is flowing through the monitor in Logic and its instantaneous as soon as I click the transfer button, very frustrating!

 

 

Hi

 

2 things to try:

 

1) Settings:MIDI General..... MIDI THru Sysex with MIDI Thru checked?

 

2) What happens if you record the SYSex into Logic, then play it out to the appropriate 550?

 

 

CCT

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Hi fastfourier

 

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

The Librarian is set to and transmits MIDI Sysex at 25 milliseconds, so I have slowed this down to other settings but appears to make no difference.

 

Snoize Sysex Librarian is something I have used in the past and does the job very well for transferring bulk dumps, but is not an editor like the D50 Librarian, as I need to change and edit patches with the D-550 on the fly when composing to try out new ideas as they surface.

 

Hi CCTMusic

 

I hope your throwing me a life line here! Ha

 

1) I have checked the MIDI Thru Sysex as you suggest. Do I need to select the relevant D-550 from the drop down box? Any way I have tried below checked and unchecked.

 

2) I've not tried this before, but assume this is correct

Set the record of the midi track associated to one of the D-550's and sent a 'BULK DUMP' from the same D-550. The recorded track shows something like XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I the put the same D-550 in 'BULK LOAD' mode until it reads WAITING, then played back the track, however nothing happened to the D-550 as it still reads WAITING.

 

Let me know if I am doing this correctly.

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Don't know if this is relevant, but I remember Roland was fond of using SysEx "handshake" mode. And there was often a secret dance with the front panel buttons to get it out of handshake (bi-directional) mode. Found this over at:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/roland-d-550-data-transfer-via-midi/

 

Roland D-550 Data Transfer via MIDI

Article #1708509 Added on Mar 20, 2012 at 3:11 PM

Normally the D-550 is looking for a handshake command in order to dump or load its exclusive messages. This is not a problem if you are using two D-550′s. However, if you need to do a one-way dump or load then you will have to hold down the DATA TRANSFER button during the entire procedure to override the handshake command.

 

1. Press and hold the DATA TRANSFER button down and use the CURSOR to select either [bulk Dump] or [bulk Load].

 

2. Keep holding the DATA TRANSFER Button and press the ENTER button.

 

3. Continue holding the DATA TRANSFER Button until “Complete” is displayed.

 

Note: The D-550 must be set to the same MIDI channel when this information is reloaded.

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Hi Mark R

 

Yeah, I don't know about a secret dance on the front panel buttons, however at the moment I feel like jumping up and down on them!

 

The D-50 and D-550 synths supports two types of data transfer

One-way transfer

Hand-shake transfer

 

The D50 Librarian only supports One-way transfer, which means that the data is sent, but not verified as being received successfully.

 

As mentioned earlier, this has never been an issue when the D-550 and Librarian are connected in isolation. Having said that I did try your suggestion, but the results were no different.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if this is another pathological hatred between Macs and Windows, as something is clearly interrupting the flow of Sysex data from the Librarian into Logic and then out to the D-550. I find it hard to believe I am alone in trying to make this work.

 

Thank you again for offering your help!

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Try taking Logic out of the equation..

 

Download MidiPipe and set up a pipe with just a Midi In and a Midi Out - just routing MIDI from the PC port to one of your D550s. Quit Logic and try transferring again.

 

If this still fails then the problem may be with something other than Logic - Mac MIDI interface, cables ...?

 

If it works then obviously Logic is mangling the MIDI data somehow, although I can't think why that would be.

 

At the end of the day, it wouldn't be a *terrible* solution just to use MidiPipe to route the transfers - although it should work perfectly well with Logic ..

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I must also add that I had a bad experience with Logic about a year ago when I went to save my custom work I had done on a large keyboard, the day before I sold it. I think my procedure was - I fired up Logic, put a track in record and sequentially saved first the patches, then performances, then drum sets as separate regions on the same track.

 

Later when I tried to reload them, only the first region loaded. The other 2 regions that I had recorded (immediately after the first) were corrupt. Then I seemed to remembered reading some time ago that someone else had found a problem with only the first SysEx save in Logic working properly. Could be that Logic still has a bug in this department.

 

Weird, but thought I'd mention it.

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I have tried a bulk dump from from Sysex Librarian to the D50 Librarian via the MOTU and the D50 Librarian receives this ok and visa versa.

However when sending a single patch from the D50 Librarian to the Sysex Librarian and then sending it back again, only some of the patch arrives and is mixed with whatever patch is stored at that location within the D550, confused so am I !!!!

 

I am using one of those cheap USB to MIDI cables from the PC into the MOTU, so have ordered a more professional Alesis cable to see if this makes a difference, I will let you know.

 

I downloaded the MIDI MONITOR from Snoize to have a look at the flow of midi and SysEx data flowing through my devices and when I send patch information from the D50 Librarian to A D550 via Logic, there are error messages along with the Sysex data.

 

I might try and put a video together to show what I am doing.

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Hey 1279,

 

However when sending a single patch from the D50 Librarian to the Sysex Librarian and then sending it back again, only some of the patch arrives and is mixed with whatever patch is stored at that location within the D550, confused so am I !!!!

 

Do you mean that you're sending D50 Librarian -> Sysex Librarian -> D550?

 

This does sound like a hardware problem if you're still getting corrupted data without using Logic to route the sysex. Can you post details of your MIDI setup? Interfaces, connections etc.

 

An idea: you might not need to use physical MIDI interfaces at all to connect the PC and Mac. Take a look at RTPMidi which will let you send MIDI over a network.

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I mean when I send a single patch that was not originally from the D50 Librarian from the Sysex Librarian to the D550 synth, the synth receives it and plays the patch fine, but when I send a patch from the D50 Librarian to the Sysex Librarian then save it and then send the same patch to the D550 synth, this patch is merged with one in the D550!

This makes for some interesting patches, although of course this is not what I am trying to do.

 

I will have a look at your suggestion of the RTPMidi.

 

Thank you

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Wow. So it looks like some sysex messages are getting corrupted between the PC and the Mac! Since we already know it works fine when you plug the PC straight into the D550, this points the finger at the MIDI In of the Mac.

 

Yes, try replacing the physical MIDI link from the PC to the Mac with an RTPMidi connection, then try that procedure again.

 

Hopefully that will get the bulk dump across intact. If it works, then you can take SysEx Librarian out of the equation and try routing the MIDI data directly in Logic.

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Brilliant.....fastfourier you are a star!

 

The RTPMIDI works perfectly, so with this free and very clever software, I can now route any patch from the D50 Librarian to any D-550 synth, also 'Bulk Dump' and 'Bulk Load' into the Librarian and visa versa without a hitch and all through the 'Ether'. This means I now have the best of both worlds, a superb editor librarian for my 3 x D-550's in perfect harmony with the best DAW for recording them.

 

I don't know has it does it, but it does......I can now get back to some long overdue composing and sound design.

 

Thank you again for persevering with me.

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  • 8 months later...
What I'd probably do is have a dedicated MIDI port from the PC into Logic.

 

In the click&ports layer in the environment, route that port only into three new instrument objects (via a channel splitter) which each output to the three D-550's.

 

Now, MIDI coming in on the PC input port will get sent directly to the D-550's, to let you send them sysex from the editor without hitting the Logic sequencer.

 

Give it a try, or if you have more specific requirements, get back to me and we'll see if we can get you going...

 

I see my midi ports at the far top left. Currently it seems like the 'sum' one is cabled and eventually hitting the sequencer input. I'd like to somehow disconnect port 8, then have the rest going to the sequencer input as per usual.

 

How would I go about doing that? That way I can cable port 8 to my midi devices and use it as a dedicated programmer channel.

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I see my midi ports at the far top left. Currently it seems like the 'sum' one is cabled and eventually hitting the sequencer input. I'd like to somehow disconnect port 8, then have the rest going to the sequencer input as per usual.

 

How would I go about doing that? That way I can cable port 8 to my midi devices and use it as a dedicated programmer channel.

 

By patching a cable to that port and connecting it anywhere but sequencer input object or any object that may eventually end there.

 

J.

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Ok, here's where I'm at.

 

I cabled port 8 to the multiinstrument and I thought by bypassing the sequencer input and everything else, the SysEx data would get through ok.

 

It doesn't.

 

I've also got the Sysex Midi Thru thing ticked in the settings, and I made sure that nothing in the midi filters is being filtered, but neither of those things seem to help.

 

Somehow Logic is surely stripping or changing the SysEx data and I don't know why. I've already tested my patchbay and it works fine in Patch mode (I tested another patchbay and it worked fine too). Even with bypassing the other objects and bypassing the sequencer input, Logic insists on messing with the data.

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Ok, here's where I'm at.

 

I cabled port 8 to the multiinstrument and I thought by bypassing the sequencer input and everything else, the SysEx data would get through ok.

 

It doesn't.

 

I've also got the Sysex Midi Thru thing ticked in the settings, and I made sure that nothing in the midi filters is being filtered, but neither of those things seem to help.

 

Somehow Logic is surely stripping or changing the SysEx data and I don't know why. I've already tested my patchbay and it works fine in Patch mode (I tested another patchbay and it worked fine too). Even with bypassing the other objects and bypassing the sequencer input, Logic insists on messing with the data.

 

Download Snoize's free MIDI Monitor and compare the data as it comes in from the synth and as it leaves Logic.

 

J.

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Yep, Logic is definitely messing something up. When I monitor what's happening with a working setup, it sends a Sysex pack of data (451 bytes) and everything looks good. However when I monitor what's coming out of Logic directly, it gives me a long list of sysex errors saying 'invalid'.
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