Using Surround Panner instead of Direction Mixer Plugin?

I know you can have more control over panning a stereo track with the use of the Direction Mixer plugin, but I'd rather have a visual representation on the stereo track for the panning than have to open a plugin. This I think can be solved by setting stereo tracks to surround output instead of stereo, which gives you access to a surround panner that allows you not only to pan but also narrow the width of the stereo track. When using the surround panner you can clearly see the panning in the mixer of the stereo tracks its used on.

So I'm wondering are there any major disadvantages to using the surround panner? The only one I've noticed so far is that it splits the main output meter into 5.1 surround but this can be sort of rectified by making sure the surround panner has the centre & rear surround speakers switched off (by clicking on the centre & surround speaker icons within the stereo panner)

Does it put any extra strain on the CPU or are there any other problems that can occur from using the surround panner instead of the Direction Mixer?

I think you should have a look at the Binaural panner instead. With the surround panner 6 streams have to be processed, even if you mute 4 and use just 2. So I'd say the surround panner is 3 times more CPU intensive - for nothing.

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/Art/S04/S0489_BinPanner.png

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=27%26section=14%26tasks=true

I think you should have a look at the Binaural panner instead. With the surround panner 6 streams have to be processed, even if you mute 4 and use just 2. So I'd say the surround panner is 3 times more CPU intensive - for nothing.

 

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/Art/S04/S0489_BinPanner.png

 

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=27%26section=14%26tasks=true

But surround panner is essentially a 6channel submixer, while binaural panner ads extra processing to the whole thing. I'd say no no

Yes, you're right, Plo plo no no, professor Ploki noki!

@ Peevy: forget it, don't look at the binaural panner. It's a Plokinono! In fact, don't look at anything, as far as mixing is concerned.

In fact, don't look at anything, as far as mixing is concerned.

Hah, that's clever!

However you can use 4.0 Quadrophonic or LCRS panner in logic instead, that way you only process 4 channels and setting is per project instead of global and you use 2 streams less, essentially improving your CPU efficiency for 33%!

I think you should have a look at the Binaural panner instead. With the surround panner 6 streams have to be processed, even if you mute 4 and use just 2. So I'd say the surround panner is 3 times more CPU intensive - for nothing.

 

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/Art/S04/S0489_BinPanner.png

 

http://documentation.apple.com/en/logicpro/usermanual/index.html#chapter=27%26section=14%26tasks=true

 

But surround panner is essentially a 6channel submixer, while binaural panner ads extra processing to the whole thing. I'd say no no

Thanks for chiming in Ploki. I thought there might have been some kind of hocus-pocus going on the the binaural panner. I think I'll maybe take the chance with the surround panner in Quadrophonic or LCRS.

Well I just had a bit of an audio glitch while using the surround panner on a stereo track with Garritan PO, popping sound when playing back then no sound until changing the track back to stereo. I might just stick with the direction panner but I really wish Logic had dual panners available for stereo tracks. I think its much better to have visual feedback directly on the mixer rather than having to load a plugin for stereo tracks.

I'll report the glitch to Apple for good measure.

add it under feature suggestion, a semicircle with a dot seems like a nice way to pan things, and you can control width and phantom position directly from the mixer then.

not really a bad idea anyway, at least optionally.

Actually, using Quadrophonic panner can serve as an advantage. If you permanently route your "back Left/right" tracks to your reverb unit, you can control room as well and creating some kind of virtual soundstage where "stage position" define how wet and consequently "indirect" the sound is.

It seems like a fresh look upon panorama button for more visual approach to mixing, not to mention it would be way easier to automate movement in such setup. (one dot controlling stereo width, room reverb presence, phantom position,etc)

Binaural panners are fun to work with. They add more dimension.

Binaural panners are fun to work with. They add more dimension.

Yup. But they can also add problems

Binaural panners are fun to work with. They add more dimension.

Yup. But they can also add problems

More about the 'Binaural Panners' than anyone might care to explore.

If you want a little more control and use less CPU don't forget to add the 'Binaural Post-Processing' plug-in to an aux or output channel strips.

I think the idea is to turn OFF each panner's extended parameter called 'Diffuse-Field Compensation checkbox'. This stops multiple panners from doing redundant work and allows the panner's to share a single post-processing further down the signal path. And it provides an important additional option "to ensure a neutral sound that is suitable for speaker playback as well as headphone playback"

From the Logic X User guide:

Select the Diffuse-Field Compensation checkbox in the Extended Parameters area to ensure a

neutral sound for headphone playback, utilizing diffuse-field compensation.

Note: When using multiple Binaural Panners on several channel strips, turn this option off and route the output of the Binaural Panners to an aux channel strip, in which you insert the Binaural Post-Processing plug-in. The Binaural Post-Processing plug-in allows you to apply diffuse-field compensation to all Binaural Panner outputs at once, saving CPU power.

From the Logic X FX manual:

Binaural Post-Processing

The output signal that results when you use Binaural Panner is best suited for headphone playback. You can, however, use the integrated conditioning of the Binaural Panner to ensure a neutral sound that is suitable for speaker playback as well as headphone playback.

For more information about using Binaural Panner with the Binaural Post-Processing plug-in, see the Logic Pro User Manual.

So if I read this right - the panners themselves default to headphone usage. The suble processing doesn't really work at all for playback on speakers. But! the additional "post processing" plug in offers an option that helps "theoretically" conditions the results for speakers.

I, like shivermetimbers, enjoy the dimensionality it can give to a track and I do play with these options from time to time. But in the end, because the effect translates best to headphones, I usually chicken out on applying them to any important tracks in a mix. If I knew that a majority of listeners were wearing headphones I would probably be more bold. Hope we see future improvements in this still experimental technology.

Very nice information!

If you like experimenting with Binaural technology be sure to check Vibestation LE (free in Mac App store)