External instruments midi error [SOLVED]

Logic Pro X (and older versions) questions and troubleshooting

External instruments midi error [SOLVED]

Postby Santate » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:51 pm

Hard to find any info about this so I decided to open a new thread. The whole thing is so DIY. I have armed a pretty nice external instrument (midi plugin) setup in to LPX. First I had problems with the mono/stereo output and found the solutions to make the external instrument setup using software instrument (choosing the ext ins plugin). So I have a compact arrangement.

1. But now I faced a new annoying problem with my midi. If I play notes using my Akai usb keyboard I get a midi feedback loop and stucking notes. And all the polyphonic notes are played only monophonically. This problem doesn't exist if I have a basic GM midi track /audio combo or GM midi track/external inst, only when using the basic external instrument setup. Weird.

2. When I'm in the piano roll editor, I dont see my pressed notes in the editor at all. Basically I would like to also see what notes I'm pressing with my usb keyboars in the piano roll. Now I only hear the notes...or is is even possible.

My setup is: akai usb keyboard - midisport 4x4 - polysix/alpha juno...etc. I have made the AMS so that the midisport is connected to all my synths.
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby David Nahmani » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:29 pm

Hello Santate and welcome to Logic Pro Help! What version of Logic are you using? Click this link to your signature and add your system information:
• Logic version and sub-version (e.g. Logic 10.0.2)
• OS X version and sub-version (e.g. OS 10.8.4)
• Computer (e.g. MacBook, Mac Pro, iMac)
• Processor (e.g. 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo)
• Memory (e.g. 2GB)
• Audio interface manufacturer and model (e.g. Presonus AudioBox USB)

(most of that information can be found by choosing Logic Pro X > About Logic Pro X, and  > About This Mac)

Santate wrote:1. But now I faced a new annoying problem with my midi. If I play notes using my Akai usb keyboard I get a midi feedback loop and stucking notes. And all the polyphonic notes are played only monophonically. This problem doesn't exist if I have a basic GM midi track /audio combo or GM midi track/external inst, only when using the basic external instrument setup. Weird.

What destination did you select in the external instruments? And how are all the keyboards connected to the MIDIsport? Is the Akai also connected to the MIDIsport or anything else? Are you using any MIDI Thru connections?

Santate wrote:2. When I'm in the piano roll editor, I dont see my pressed notes in the editor at all. Basically I would like to also see what notes I'm pressing with my usb keyboars in the piano roll. Now I only hear the notes...or is is even possible.

Unfortunately that's not possible.
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Santate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:06 am

I dont completely understand what you meen by destination, but I have made setup with AMS and i use that in Logic (midisports ports routed directly to different synths and the akai usb keyboard without any connections). All the keyboards are only midi in to midisport except the Voyager which is in/out, so there shouldn't be any feedback loop (?). The Akai usb keyboard is hooked only to usb, not into midisport. I dont know is there any difference by that, but maybe I try the midisport?

There is no midi thru at all.

I tested this external instrument using the UFX's midi port and it worked perfectly, no feedback loop or mono notes at all! Weird. But I still need four midi connections more...
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Santate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:51 am

I tried the direct midi connection from akai to midisport and the behavior was even worse. Only random and weird notes...Perhaps I just have to try some other midi patchbay like Motu as the UFX midi is working fine. These midi things are just weird, although I don't have this problems with Cubase?!
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby David Nahmani » Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:18 pm

Santate wrote:I dont completely understand what you meen by destination

That's the name of the parameter determining where the MIDI data will be routed in the External Instrument plug-in:

external-instrument.png
external-instrument.png (31.17 KiB) Viewed 1395 times


Santate wrote:All the keyboards are only midi in to midisport

Does that mean that for each keyboard you've cabled the keyboard MIDI OUT to a MIDI IN on the midisport?

Santate wrote:the Voyager which is in/out

Does that mean MIDI OUT from Voyager to a MIDI IN on the midisport, and MIDI OUT from the midisport to MIDI IN on the Voyager?

Santate wrote:The Akai usb keyboard is hooked only to usb, not into midisport. I dont know is there any difference by that, but maybe I try the midisport?

No, leave it USB only, that's the best way to connect it.
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Santate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:59 pm

Midi destinations are set to same as in AMS, so I can choose the right midi setup by name. And the midi channel is allways the synths correct channel, not "all".

Yes, thats correct. All the external synths are only cabled to midi in on the midisport. Only Voyager is in and out as well because I use the special editor for it. I dont understand why everything works if I use a basic GM midi / audio track combo to play my synth but not with the external instrument plugin. I think the connection works as I hear sounds but the midi is only stucking notes and monophonic sounds....

These midi things drives me grazy as they are very often so hard to solve and the problem can be everywhere.
BTW. I noticed that the separate floating piano roll shows all the played notes...if there's any use for it :)
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Atlas007 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:54 pm

Could it be some problem with a faulty Control Surface being (unduly ) installed in the Control Surface Setup window?
You could quickly check that by disabling temporarily your control surfaces?
(Choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass all Control Surfaces).
If that solves the issue, check in the Control Surface Setup window.
If a Generic Control Surface appears there, chances are that this is the culprit of the MIDI weirdness you are encountering.
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby David Nahmani » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:15 pm

Well there's always the tried and true method: you disconnect some of the synths until the problem goes away... until you find the culprit. Or the other way around: you disconnect all devices then connect one device at a time, checking that everything works each time, until you run into the problem again.
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Santate » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:55 am

I tried the control surfaces and there was no difference. David, this problem occur with every external synths I have and only with external inst plugin setup. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the problem is the midisport as things works just fine with my UFX audio interface. Basically if I just change the midi cable to ufx and to external synth I get no feedback loop at all. The ufx is connected with fireface...

I'm just concerned if the problem is my iMac's usb ports which are probably all in the same circuit - hope not. . Anyhow I'm testing the Motu 128 express tomorrow...
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Santate » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:00 am

Do you guys have any idea how the Macs midi traffic works? I mean why the basic midi track works fine with all of my external synths but not with external plugin. I just don't understand...like Is the route someway different? Anyhow many thanks for your help at the first place!
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
Santate
 
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: External instruments midi error

Postby David Nahmani » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:32 pm

It should be the same with the External Instrument plug-in or with an external MIDI track: you simply send the MIDI data on the track to a destination. You choose the destination inside the plug-in in the former case, in the Library in the latter.

Anyway my last post describes the ultimate way to troubleshoot your issue. A bit longer to experiment, but it means you will find the culprit.
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Atlas007 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 pm

Santate wrote:...
Yes, thats correct. All the external synths are only cabled to midi in on the midisport. Only Voyager is in and out as well because I use the special editor for it. I dont understand why everything works if I use a basic GM midi / audio track combo to play my synth but not with the external instrument plugin...

What is the special editor you are using fro the Voyager? Where does it stands in the MIDI stream? Have you tried without it?
LogicX 10.0.7(& 9.1.8),MainStage3.0.3
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby Santate » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:21 pm

Finally. Problem was the damn midisport interface. I changed to Motu 128 express and now everything is working sooo perfectly, and also the annoying midi jitter is gone as well. Man, that midisport is s#!+. Its 2 years old so maybe no change for any kind of reclamation...Anyhow, a very important problem is now solved and I can go further with my music and workflow. Thanks for your help guys!
• Logic version and sub-version : LOGIC 10.0.5
• OS X version and sub-version : OS X Mavericks 10.9.1
• Computer: iMac i5 2.8 ghz
• Memory : 12 GB
• Audio interface manufacturer and model : RME UFX
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Re: External instruments midi error

Postby David Nahmani » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:37 pm

Great, good to hear! Thanks for letting us know. :D
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Re: External instruments midi error [SOLVED]

Postby foxrockson » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:38 am

I have the exact same problem with stuck notes and midi glitches, but I'm using a MOTU micro lite. Although ~ My interface is older than 2 years. Are you telling me that this is probably a problem with an outdated interface ??????

If so that would be MUCH better than having to use the old program because I like the look and feel of Logic X .....

but I'm using an ESQ-M rack .... which is ANCIENT but awesome , I'd hate to leave it behind.
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Re: External instruments midi error [SOLVED]

Postby foxrockson » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:37 pm

yeah ... it seems like it's a USB3 vs the older USB compatibility issue.

A Hub will fix it ...

I plugged my Motu Microlite into one of the USB ports on an older wired (short) Apple A1242 Aluminum Keyboard and it solved the stuck midi notes !!!!!!!!!!!

spread the word because this is obviously an issue across the board with midi interfaces
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