Spending a long time on projects

[rhys]

I have this little problem where I know I need to spend longer on my music but after about 30 hours it starts to sound stale. It's not a mix thing, I know the " mix" needs more attention that's why I feel I need to spend longer on it. I myself have handed out advice like take a break etc but does anyone have any tips for being able to spend longer on a project without your track getting that " rinsed" played to death feeling?

I was beginning to think it must come with the territory but there must be a way to distance yourself from it to preserve your enthusiasm for the song even after say 50 hours ( 50 total hours that is, not 50 consecutive hours lol)

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Start something else and come back to it. As long as you do come back to it.

Or grit your teeth and push through it.

Or stop writing music that sounds stale after 30 hours!

[rhys]

Or stop writing music that sounds stale after 30 hours!

That will actually work !!

The problem with gritting your teeth is that you loose track of whether it is still good or not, I finished this track a few weeks ago and listening back it is bad, other people seem to like it, (not soundcloud comments, but friends etc who I like to think are honest I know my wife is usually reliably honest ) but the production is full of holes, everything that sounded fat during mix down sounds thin and dead.

I had made a shed full of noob mistakes and I put this down to hearing it too much, whats good and what is bad tend to get blurred at around the 25 hour mark. I think maybe your brain starts filling in the gaps just like when it is dark and things you see are slightly over exaggerated.

I like the idea of multiple projects but I did stop working like this a couple of years back as I thought this was the reason for bad mixes etc but now I have a little more experience maybe I will try and start a few extra projects and make sure I split time equally on them, maybe actually allocating time for specific projects is a more professional approach?

[rainstick]

one thing is to listen to the thing in different environments, i find that can help sometimes.... one thing i've been doing recently is dropping the track im working on my ipod then going for a walk with it and a dictaphone.... And just make notes of anything i want to do - then when i get home i follow those notes completely, i obey myself!

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Yeah, it can be easy to lose perspective. Reference mixes are good for that though.

I tend to just power through, I'll often end up thinking it sounds s#!+, but if I don't listen to it for a few weeks afterward I'm usually pleasantly suprised (or in denial because I spent so much time on it ).

You beat me to the post rainstick, but that's a good idea you've got there.

[rhys]

Yeah, I like the idea of taking notes as you are listening in a different environment, I do listen on other speakers but have never taken physical notes. Maybe this is a good start.

Ive actually stopped using reference mixes so much as I thought maybe it was leading me in a direction that wasn't where I wanted to be as my tracks would have different instruments, melodies etc to the reference track then any judgement on levels and eq or even just as an overall comparison wouldn't be in context. Although that may seem like a weak argument against the pro's of using one.

On the other hand I guess I do sort of reference my tracks as my studio monitors are what I listen to all my music through most of the time.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Maybe don't even try to get tracks close to the one you're working on.

Just listening to a few random commercial tunes can help put your mix back into perspective.

[rhys]

some good advice there. Thanks

[rhys]

Ive had a good think and I may of come up with a solution, I posted it up on here incase anyone else has the same issue.

For years I have sort of mix down as I'm going along, when in the real world another guy would do that so I am going to try running two projects - create the first - create the second - mix down first project - start and finish creating a new project - mix down the second project I started and so on...

This way I will limit the hours I spend on each project because the time I spend will be entirely creative (in theory) General tweaking will be allowed but stuff like messing around with different subtle processing and all the fiddly stuff can wait. I will also get a good gap between hearing the same track.

Hopefully this will work!

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

I had the same epiphany a couple of years ago, and it's worked for me.

[CarlosUnderground]

I usually just write/record, move on to the next thing for weeks on end. Then, when I totally forget what happened a month ago, I just listen to all of it, pick out the "gems" and throw the rest on a "B-sides" drive. I'll work on the kept ones for about eight hours MAX, then bounce. I'll pop it in my phone and listen in my car, ear buds, hi-fi, friends car; any ware I can.
I allways remember myself I'm not Allan Parsons, Jim Fox, Allan Moulder or Errol Brown. I'm Me. I've received positive feedback from trusted friends on mixes I think aren't that good. So I trust the eye of the beholder.
I should point out that, I am not a mixing engineer by any stretch! I'm a DIY artist, so take this post as just my humble offering.

[rhys]

I had the same epiphany a couple of years ago, and it's worked for me.

I think this is the way to go, certainly seems the best approach.

I allways remember myself I'm not Allan Parsons, Jim Fox, Allan Moulder or Errol Brown. I'm Me. I've received positive feedback from trusted friends on mixes I think aren't that good. So I trust the eye of the beholder.
I should point out that, I am not a mixing engineer by any stretch! I'm a DIY artist, so take this post as just my humble offering.

Me too, although I don't think there is any reason for top notch results to be non achievable by todays DIY artist. Everything has a science behind it and its just a question of working out a method for each part of the process.

Mastering engineers say that its all the little things that make a big difference, even tho this is said being specific to mastering I think it is a great metaphor for the way you should work in general. Take every opportunity to optimise your work flow and what little time us day jobbers do have to do this, it may become more productive.....hopefully

[CarlosUnderground]

What I mean is, everyone has something to offer. So, maybe what we think is wrong with our work could just be our fingerprint; that which makes us unique. I listen to alot of commercial stuff (recordings, mixes, masters) and can't help but feel them stale, lifeless. Not to say they're bad, but just cookie cutter, flat, sanitized. Probably just my taste, but if it's my own work, I'd rather take risks and piss some people off. I don't know, I ramble.

[rhys]

Ok cool I get you now. Good point, maybe it's not good to iron out too many creases.

[shivermetimbers]

I would at it from a different view.

Think of yourself as a professional mixing engineer and you are being paid to complete the work in a specified amount of time.
In other words, let's say you give yourself anywhere from ten minutes to three days to complete a mix and forget about it.

Same thing with the songwriting, pretend you have a timeframe in which it has to be complete.

If you get too personal with it, it becomes your 'baby' and you will never finish it.

[CarlosUnderground]

Exactly Shiv. A song(or any piece of art) is never finished, you just stop working on it. I like the whole "false" deadline idea, it's really what I do but, hadn't thought about it that way. I think it helps push new work forward. If something in the last tune I did sounds funny to me, instead of working on it till my ears bleed, I take note and try something diferent on the next one. It's better to do thing right from the start, instead of trying to fix it after, when track count goes up. I read a thread on Gearsltz with Charlie Clouser, and he spoke to this in scoring to film.

[rhys]

Great, pretend deadlines, now my wife will really think I'm nuts lol

Some more good advice there actually, I may try and incorporate that with the new work layout. I know a track usually takes me about 2-3 weeks which is anywhere between 30 - 60 or so hours (although I have taken more) so I think I will make my deadline 60 hours as I can't really put a date on stuff due to the fact I get time in blocks of "when I can". 60 hours should be fine now that I'm splitting creative and technical work.

I just realised that leaving my track on loop while browsing LPH isn't helping much either lol