Keep logic pro

[LogicControl22]

Instead of more crappy guitar tone plugins, garageband compatibility, etc. keep up with the power tools that other DAWs are giving their users.

Flextime was a fantastic update...do more things like that. Flexpitch would be a good idea. How about a score editor update.

Make Logic Pro a $2000 app and include major upgrades that are worth it, like seamless integration with Vienna Ensemble Pro - Multiple midi port AU plugs/rework of multi-timbral instrument - (no more auxs!!!), more professional looking scores, note expression, midi plugins...

Professionals will pay for great tools that make their JOBS easier. Make express your garageband plus version for hobbyists and the "how do I make beatz with logic" crowd...

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

I don't disagree with the features you want to see in Logic.

But what's your reasoning behind charging $2000 for it? Sounds like elitism to me

Apple already undercharge for their apps, because they know it will make people buy their computers. Seems like a successful strategy too.

[LogicControl22]

No, it isn't elitism. Running a real business in this field costs much more than $2000. I would like it if we paid more and they updated things much much faster. And if they worked out every single kink. For example, how long have people been asking for an update to the multi instruments? How many times has it gotten pushed to the back?

I don't know about other people, but I would be willing to pay more if there was a promise that apple would work tirelessly to make logic beat out cubase, protools and dp in cutting edge features (that work perfectly because they have been tested to death with the extra money I paid)

[ruari]

Professionals will pay for great tools that make their JOBS easier.

I'm all for improvements to workflow & the like, but there's no way I want to see $2000 for Logic - by the time it made it's way over to the UK it could possibly be reaching £2000

When Final Cut has just got much cheaper I can't see Logic getting more expensive.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

No, it isn't elitism. Running a real business in this field costs much more than $2000.

Real business? How do you run a fake one?

But seriously, my previous statement still applies:

Apple already undercharge for their apps, because they know it will make people buy their computers. Seems like a successful strategy too.

I would like it if we paid more and they updated things much much faster. And if they worked out every single kink. For example, how long have people been asking for an update to the multi instruments? How many times has it gotten pushed to the back?

I don't see how making it more expensive would do this. Apple could already do this if they had the motivation, and I would bet that they would sell far fewer units and have less money to spend on developing Logic if it retailed at $2000.

I don't know about other people, but I would be willing to pay more if there was a promise that apple would work tirelessly to make logic beat out cubase, protools and dp in cutting edge features (that work perfectly because they have been tested to death with the extra money I paid)

If it were worth a company's time to do this, there would be a company doing it. That's just a sad fact of living in a market economy. If you want to make the big bucks, you have to gear your product in the direction of the lowest common denominator, you have to gain access to a large market, and Apple sure seems to be looking to make the big bucks.

Living in a market economy sucks when you are in the minority of consumers.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you expect Apple to do what you want with Logic. If a premium DAW aimed soley at professional studios were to be developed, I think it would likely be a small, dedicated startup company who wouldn't have the market share to charge low prices. Then, perhaps if they could survive their first few years and develop a small but dedicated following prepared to spend $2000-$4000 on a superior DAW, they might make enough profit to continue. But it wouldn't make them millionares or anything, so it would take some passion. Passion is not something most shareholders are interested in.

[ruari]

…If a premium DAW aimed soley at professional studios…

Isn't that what SADiE is?

The basic cost of admission is just under £2000 but I do think that the prices get higher the more you want to do.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

...And just to add another sad fact of market-driven economics; if you really want to motivate Apple to improve Logic, you should really just not buy Logic or even a Mac (because the profits from selling hardware subsidises their software development).

If enough people did that, they would either have to offer a product that is better than their competitors', or they could decide to discontinue Logic because it's losing them money. I can't see many people taking that gamble.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Isn't that what SADiE is?

Yeah, something like that, but with state-of-the-art MIDI instrument stuff as well.

And note:

When Studio Audio & Video went into administration in 2008, it looked, for a while, as if SADiE’s days were over...

[LogicControl22]

$2000 comment..I was kind of being facetious. Wouldn't make sense for them to charge 4 times more than steinberg, I know. I just wish, with little hope, that they would target more of their upgrades towards professionals in the tv and commercial scoring industries.

What it boils down to is that I'm just worried that I've mastered a product that isn't going to be getting the kind of updates that I would value.

[LogicControl22]

Like you said, they have to target the demographic where they will make the most sales. The needs of the hobbyist and the professional are very different, obviously. I just don't think we're on a good path unless you do this for fun.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

What it boils down to is that I'm just worried that I've mastered a product that isn't going to be getting the kind of updates that I would value.

Yeah, lots of pro users(which I wouldn't really class myself as, seeing as I make money, but not a living from using Logic as a struggling composer) seem to be frustrated with Apple over the direction they're taking Logic.

But, from my limited experience, transfer of skills between DAWs is very high, which makes sense, because they do the same things essentially. So even if Logic gets dumbed down to death (which I don't think will happen), I'm sure it wouldn't be too long before you'd mastered another DAW.

EDIT: Of course, that probably won't make you feel better. So if it's important to you, then how about starting a campaign directly aimed at Apple?

[LogicControl22]

Yes, that is true, they are very similar. It is just getting that fast workflow and muscle memory that might take some time. It would have to be a slow transition I think during my downtime (would not make the wife happy). Tinker with a new daw until it feels comfortable and efficient. Too bad they don't have a "10 weekends demo license".

[stephentrask]

$2000 comment..I was kind of being facetious. Wouldn't make sense for them to charge 4 times more than steinberg, I know. I just wish, with little hope, that they would target more of their upgrades towards professionals in the tv and commercial scoring industries.

What it boils down to is that I'm just worried that I've mastered a product that isn't going to be getting the kind of updates that I would value.

This is my fear exactly. One feature I'd love to see is a more professional and integrated version of Apple Loops and Apple Loops Utility. The way this works and looks in Logic is what you for free in Garage Band. It's the epitome of non-Pro. It barely rises to the level of hobbyist.

i suppose we will all see soon where Logic is going. The indications from this article: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11 ... pro_x.html are that Apple has learned it's lesson from the Final Cut X disaster. Let's hope that's true.

[juha-pekka kuusela]

I like guitar effect plugins in logic at least for synth sounds.

[orcasound]

I have to disagree. I think logic is definitely a pro program. In my opinion, the way the Loop browser and the browser window integrate with logic is way more pro then ProTools.
The situation is quite reverse – GarageBand is packed with some pro-like features that come for free with a Mac. Anything that can speed up your workflow and get the desired result – help make it a more Pro packed program. I own DP, PT 10, and L9 – I choose to work in L9, and I do use it to earn a living.
I think Apple's real mistake, and what holds logic back, is that Apple does not take advantage of market opportunities- logic 10 should have been ready to hit the App Store when ProTools had their issues over the last month.
Other then some enhanced audio editing capabilities, I don't really see an advantage to using PT over logic- there is nothing you can do in PT I can't be done in logic.
Still, PR remains the "industry-standard" -Apple should make this more of a competitive game and go after PT with a vengeance. The additional market share within a few Apple and the logic team's ability.
As far as everyone's concerns for where Apple will take logic, that remains to be seen. You can't compare Final Cut X and logic. The Emagic guys are still deeply involved and they've been in this game for quite some time.
We really shouldn't worry, until there is something to worry about.
I must admit, I am quite anxious to see logic 10 – not because I want the latest and greatest, but I really want to see Apple and the logic team drive a few more nails into the coffin ProTools- now with all that said, come on Apple and logic team drop 10 already- let's go boys

[stephentrask]

I have to disagree. I think logic is definitely a pro program. In my opinion, the way the Loop browser and the browser window integrate with logic is way more pro then ProTools.
The situation is quite reverse – GarageBand is packed with some pro-like features that come for free with a Mac.

I agree that Logic is a Pro program. It's the main software tool I've used to make my living for about a decade. And I like the loop browser OK, but it certainly has a very blah, utilitarian look to it, entirely unlike the other windows and plug-in GUIs. But it's the Apple Loops Utility and the way it rather clumsily integrates with Logic that I think is the real sore spot for me. It operates as a separate program, rather than being integrated into Logic, and is rather non-intuitive. What would be nice to see would be a better looking GUI for an Apple Loops Utility that works from within the program and has the loop browser built in, with a system of menus and sub-menus that more closely resemble those in every other plug-in in Logic. Or the menus in Stylus RMX or Omnisphere.

[orcasound]

Ok, yes to confirm and compare apples to apples - yes the Apple Loops Utility is a bit clunky - and outdated... Its quite buggy, crashes and lot and for lack of a better term - doesn't work like you'd expect most of the time -

My comment regarding the way the Loops and Browser windows are integrated into Logic from the media window - still stands - It is night and day from what PT, DP and other DAWS offer - Getting media in and out - loops in and out of the arrangement window, imo - is second to none... at least amongst what I would consider to the pro DAWs on the market -
Granted some DAWs are focused on complete loop-ability - ... but i think in the end they are the ones that shake out to be more consumer-pro-sumer minded.
As a side note....
I think a lot of Logic users feel some inert need to distance themselves from GB as if to further claim their "pro app" status - I embrace GB - I think that its an excellent way for a younger generation to get into the audio recording field. At some point, as their interest and career progress, they'll see the obvious short comings of it as a pro app - and move to something that can take them to the next level. Apple unlike Avid - have the resources to produce apps like GB, iMovie, - for the folks that purchase their hardware - Avid doesn't have an "un-pro tools, or a semi-pro Tools - Not because they way to "stay" pro - they don't have it because - they can't incl free with their OS or hardware - ..... They released LE - but even thats gone now - and it was only a gateway to hopefully sell more software in the future.

I really don't think there is some underhanded attempt by Apple and Gerhard to morph the two... If Apple drops Logic - which is not going to happen - then it really is a shift in their marketing and direction. Theres no real reason for apple to morph or cripple Logic into a GB - when they already have ZGB included for free. They know full well that the Pro audio community won't bite,
I don't use GB - I'm teaching my kids to use it on the home macs and the iPads. - but in reality, if you've ever messed with GB - its pretty nifty.

Technology is moving fast and we can do more with less... There are folks out there that argue over analog and tape vs digital, gtr amp sims vs the real thing, analog synths vs VI.... etc etc. - the fact is - they can argue all they want and complain - but we are heading we we are heading - if the artist has the ears and the mix is good - ain't no one gonna sit there and listen the radio and say - thats a real studer - no thats a UAD-2 studer... I say lets trust the Logic guys in Deutschland, and try to embrace what they are about to bring to the table. We might not like change -or some of the new things - but lets try and stay open minded - before we go logic bashing. // All in all, Logic 9 was a very respectable release and they made a lot of headway- who knows, maybe we'll get a 9.2 before we get a 10.0 - either way, Its all good.

[stephentrask]

Ok, yes to confirm and compare apples to apples - yes the Apple Loops Utility is a bit clunky - and outdated... Its quite buggy, crashes and lot and for lack of a better term - doesn't work like you'd expect most of the time -

My comment regarding the way the Loops and Browser windows are integrated into Logic from the media window - still stands - It is night and day from what PT, DP and other DAWS offer - Getting media in and out - loops in and out of the arrangement window, imo - is second to none... at least amongst what I would consider to the pro DAWs on the market -
Granted some DAWs are focused on complete loop-ability - ... but i think in the end they are the ones that shake out to be more consumer-pro-sumer minded.
As a side note....
I think a lot of Logic users feel some inert need to distance themselves from GB as if to further claim their "pro app" status - I embrace GB - I think that its an excellent way for a younger generation to get into the audio recording field. At some point, as their interest and career progress, they'll see the obvious short comings of it as a pro app - and move to something that can take them to the next level. Apple unlike Avid - have the resources to produce apps like GB, iMovie, - for the folks that purchase their hardware - Avid doesn't have an "un-pro tools, or a semi-pro Tools - Not because they way to "stay" pro - they don't have it because - they can't incl free with their OS or hardware - ..... They released LE - but even thats gone now - and it was only a gateway to hopefully sell more software in the future.

I really don't think there is some underhanded attempt by Apple and Gerhard to morph the two... If Apple drops Logic - which is not going to happen - then it really is a shift in their marketing and direction. Theres no real reason for apple to morph or cripple Logic into a GB - when they already have ZGB included for free. They know full well that the Pro audio community won't bite,
I don't use GB - I'm teaching my kids to use it on the home macs and the iPads. - but in reality, if you've ever messed with GB - its pretty nifty.

Technology is moving fast and we can do more with less... There are folks out there that argue over analog and tape vs digital, gtr amp sims vs the real thing, analog synths vs VI.... etc etc. - the fact is - they can argue all they want and complain - but we are heading we we are heading - if the artist has the ears and the mix is good - ain't no one gonna sit there and listen the radio and say - thats a real studer - no thats a UAD-2 studer... I say lets trust the Logic guys in Deutschland, and try to embrace what they are about to bring to the table. We might not like change -or some of the new things - but lets try and stay open minded - before we go logic bashing. // All in all, Logic 9 was a very respectable release and they made a lot of headway- who knows, maybe we'll get a 9.2 before we get a 10.0 - either way, Its all good.

First of all, I'm glad you agree about Apple Loops Utility. I thought maybe it was just me. I don't have any problem with Garage Band per se, but since this is a Pro App, when they brought that function over from Garage Band, they should have made it more "pro." It is the clumsiest and ugliest part of the program and it's been a number of years with no improvement.

As far as progress is concerned, I have no problems moving forward. I think that Logic has steadily improved over the years and think the Apple folks, for the most part, have done a damn good job. The Apple Loops Utility is actually one of the glaring omissions, something that was kind of tacked on at some point and never really made to feel like Logic, pro or not. Other than that, I think we can mostly trust the folks who are updating the program but there is always the danger that they will end up turning it into more of a prosumer product, which would have a negative effect on all of us who have come to rely on it for our line of work.

[karp47]

I understand what you mean by the $2000 idea, obviously charging $2000 isn't the solution but I'm behind your reasoning for it.

I think the reason there are so many "Hey you guyzzzz, howz do i make dis beat in da logiczzz?" guys is because it's so simple for them to get a free copy. With better copy protection these people aren't going to be using logic and eventually they will be sifted from the logic users pool.

The amount of people I speak to that have free copies of logic is pretty disgusting, I don't know why Apple stepped down their copy protection.

I've also had people that I'm working with actually bring in a laptop and assume that I will just install my version of Logic on it for them. There are two words that are pretty effective in this situation, one of them is 'get' and the other one is 'fucked'.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

I think the reason there are so many "Hey you guyzzzz, howz do i make dis beat in da logiczzz?" guys is because it's so simple for them to get a free copy. With better copy protection these people aren't going to be using logic and eventually they will be sifted from the logic users pool.

If you think it's just amateurs who used cracked software, think again:

http://www.musicradar.com/computermusic ... cks-245958

http://www.audioprointernational.com/ne ... yc-studios