Unresponsive Logic 9.1.x+10.7.x & 10.8.x [SOLVED in 10.8.3?]

[Chrishollis]

I really hope an update is imminent - today's mastering session was painful!!

As an aside - the pop ups look crap now, too.

[DaveRobinson]

Gems: Logic Pro X Rumours Thread

I've just sent in a bug report in which I complained that every feature of Logic X is missing.

[…]

Well, thanks for clarifying what your idea is all about. Still, if I saw the features I'm used to using now suddenly labeled as "advanced", or I had to hit some kind of button (even just one) to access the "advanced" stuff I'd immediately break out in hives. Big ugly ones, and I'd post pictures of them here and gross everyone out. So be careful what you wish for, because there will be consequences.

Thanks ski
Protecting Pro Logic is Vital..
Interesting times ahead, Logic, ML.
OS X 10,8 is very good here, if Logic upgrades keep a balance?
Choosing osx/logic version for your system/workflow?
Apple, Hardware and 3rd-party compatibility?
lots to digest.. Cheers!

[DaveRobinson]

TequilaKez, Nice info Thanks! hope you don't mind copy/paste here.

Re: Logic unresponsive to keystokes/mouse clicks (right now)

May 02, 2012

This happens to me all the time (like right now), even on small projects. Logic is apparently only using 66% CPU (out of %800) in activity meter. The performance meter in logic is barely showing 2 bars on cpu and nothing on HD. The rest of the system is fully responsive. Logic thinks it's fine, the interface is updating smoothly and it doesn't say 'not responding' in force quite menu.
All other applications are responding to mouse clicks/ keyboard almost instantaneously. Ableton is also unaffected.
Yes I'm using 9.1.7 logic with Lion 10.7.3 (logic but the problem started a few versions ago, not sure what version though). I can say it never happened with Snow Leopard but that could have been the logic version that was around at the time, who knows.

I found a workaround for the time being. If I alt-tab away from logic, then back in..... the change of window focus seems to reset the input buffer and it becomes responsive again.

It's definitely some kind of bug in logic, albeit one that only a few people are suffering so something relating to my system. I must stress the rest of my system is super fast, I have a very small number of apps installed, it's almost a fresh install. At the moment I'm working on a small project with 6 instances of NI Massive (latest update), 4 EXS24's and 4 audio tracks. But the problem has happened with sessions only containing logic plugins.

I've been doing some apps in cocoa lately and I've learned a little about about how OSX handles window focus and user input. It appears to be a problem with NSEvent reporting the mouse/keyboard activity to logic. Either something is preventing NSEvent from firing or Logic's delegate is not responding to the events.


The only thing that sets me apart from a clean barebones install is 2 UAD-2 cards, and 2 LCD monitors?

"We use a own develpoped Software Renderer.
I guess the problem is how the GUI is blitted to the System window.

I don't think it has to do with GUI redraw as my logic GUI remains fluid evn though logic doesn't respond to any input.

It is almost certainly to to with logics NSEvent handling.

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac ... rence.html

An NSEvent object, or simply an event, contains information about an input action such as a mouse click or a key down. The Application Kit associates each such user action with a window, reporting the event to the application that created the window. The NSEvent object contains pertinent information about each event, such as where the cursor was located or which character was typed. As the application receives events, it temporarily places them in a buffer called the event queue. When the application is ready to process an event, it takes one from the queue.

As you'd know if you're getting this problem, when logic finally does start responding again, all you previous mouse clicks and keystrokes get executed at once as logic logic plays catch-up with the event queue. Something is halting this process, stopping logic from 'taking one from the queue'. It's like it's waiting for some other process, perhaps part of the audio engine, to complete before getting back to handling the event queue.

TequilaKez, Sorry about delay, yes! the days i spent with piano roll problem seem to fit here,
Cheers!

more info about history.
Snow Leopard cut/PowerPC, Intel only.
Lion cut/Core Duo Macs, 64-bit?
Mountain Lion cut/ all Macs with poor graphics chips and 32-bit EFI.
Some Core 2 Duo Macs that are capable of running 64-bit software can't boot to a 64-bit kernel due to Apple crippling their EFI to 32-bit only.
64-bit Mountain Lion.

SL Logic? - ML Logic? - Pro?

edit: extFw7200rpm non journaled format on install. (working well)

edit: NovAmap
Running the beta meant cleaning up before installing the newer version, once done, repair disk,. permissions.
Doing the same before OS X update also,
Very rare use of my MBP keyboard/trackpad. This is one of them!
using wireless keyboard and Magic mouse most in daily workflow

[dan z]

I don't get the "provide Logic Pro Feedback" thing.
The window hasn't changed for two years (how many OS's is that?) , they're still thanking users for all their input on Logic 8,
and they state that although they read the feedback, they cannot reply it.

That reminds me of The Wailing Wall in Jerusalem... the only remain of the Temple Mount... you can write a little note to God and place it within the cracks between the ancient stones. (providing God feedback )

Had a VE Issue a couple of months back, with compatibility to Waves plugins. I wrote to the support team, they replied quickly and sent me a beta which solved the issue completely.

Are the steinberg guys less busy? getting paid more? is Apple short of cash to pay employees these days?

[hypnotik]

Stupid communication Apple politics, the silence cult!

[callingclouds]

Just thought I'd give an update regarding my situation. I thought that mouse setting had fixed it, but I'm just working on a track now and key commands aren't working again.

I also have Air Display installed so when it was mentioned here I thought it might be that, but you then said it wasn't that causing the problem, so who knows!

Very annoying situation, as I would like to keep Mountain Lion, but perhaps it is not gonna be possible.

What is most scary is that people still have this issue now after upgrading from Snow Leopard to Lion? I never had this problem with Lion, but then my Mac was preinstalled with Lion and didn't need upgrading. It seems like as soon as you upgrade, you are liable to get this issue on some machines.

I'm not currently experiencing issues with any other app whatsoever apart from Logic Pro 9.

I use an Edirol UA4FX sound card. Could this be the cause? What soundcards are other people using?

[DaveRobinson]

If you're machine has graphics on mountain lion you have a choice in the future to run SL, Lion, or ML.

These changes today are not just major, they are massive, and started many years ago.
ski, posts of Cocoa changes, Ancient "bugs". many bugs, that should be fixed.
New bugs are on the way, they don't go away if we don't keep pushing for fixes.

(win-XP) had large amounts of crud in the kernel code, Software integrated into the kernel to "Protect" the media player, IE, from piracy and stop users accessing the software code. Every major Win release! had code, obsolete, and unremovable! patches upon patches. Vista, carrying win9? and earlier code along.
Massive in proportion to a vanilla or Mac kernel.

Software stays out of the kernel code! This makes maintaing both workable.
The third party is us, users, our desktop gui interface is the bridge between the software/kernel.
Mountain Lion kernel has improved the desktop.
The first ML upgrade should play catchup with more complex graphic/audio needs.

The Mac kernel handles real time priority, it works well.
To integrate a desktop with DAW real time processing is complex.

… perhaps part of the "audio" engine, to complete before getting back to handling the event queue.

Audio can trip a system easily, and usually does.

machines to move files across a network, then "See" the files moving, next "Hear" bells and whistles.
Audio has always been low down on the list of most desktop user requirements.
Development is slower, behind the gui.
OS X has to be stable, for logic to function correctly.

Flex Time? Quantize Audio? WTF? the technology used here is astounding!

[fisherking]

as per hypnotik's request:

am having an excellent logic experience in ML. here's my setup:

late 2011 13" macbook pro. 2.4 C2D i5. 8gigs ram, 256G crucial M4 SSD. L9.1.7. focusrite scarlett 2i2 usb interface.
mostly using 3rd party plugs (fabfilter eq and comp); ALL my synths are 3rd-party. the only logic plugs i use:
chorus, echo, the exs24 (pianos, strings mostly), and the ultrabeat...a lot (mostly custom kits).

songs run about 25-30 tracks (that's an estimate), maybe half audio, half synths etc.

am currently having NO issues in ML (but i'm also an expert at macs in general, and keep an extremely light system); i keep about 160G open at any time on my HD.

occasionally, especially after working on several logic files (AND checking email, this forum etc (!), and calendars, contacts...i'll reboot, and ONLY open logic. at my desk at home, am connected online thru ETHERNET (when at my desk, which is most of the time...)

anything else, ask me!

[hypnotik]

thx fisherking

Can you try to use in your sessions a channel eq with analyzer ON + for instance a multimeter on a track ? And report us if you have this lagging issue ? (analyzer and multimeter must be feeded with sounds to make graphics activity)

Thanks for your input.

[fisherking]

thx fisherking

Can you try to use in your sessions a channel eq with analyzer ON + for instance a multimeter on a track ? And report us if you have this lagging issue ? (analyzer and multimeter must be feeded with sounds to make graphics activity)

Thanks for your input.

am around tonite to check things, but...i should point out, am running logic EXPRESS, so...i don't HAVE the multimeter. anything else i can check? here's a complex song with logic's eq, plus fabfilter's eq, and compression running...

[DaveRobinson]

Just thought I'd give an update regarding my situation. I thought that mouse setting had fixed it, but I'm just working on a track now and key commands aren't working again.

I also have Air Display installed so when it was mentioned here I thought it might be that, but you then said it wasn't that causing the problem, so who knows!

Very annoying situation, as I would like to keep Mountain Lion, but perhaps it is not gonna be possible.

What is most scary is that people still have this issue now after upgrading from Snow Leopard to Lion? I never had this problem with Lion, but then my Mac was preinstalled with Lion and didn't need upgrading. It seems like as soon as you upgrade, you are liable to get this issue on some machines.

I'm not currently experiencing issues with any other app whatsoever apart from Logic Pro 9.

I use an Edirol UA4FX sound card. Could this be the cause? What soundcards are other people using?

callingclouds, You saw a change, when you setup the Mouse, details like this are important.
What are the specs for your mac? would you post a link?
System info in your profile signature would help a lot.

Searches, don't show your sound card being the likely cause, but, it is possible.

i think this!! don't know!..
More likely, the remaining emulated 32bit code is keeping you're machine and many others up and running ready for the next os x upgrade.

3rd party graphic drivers? AirParrot or AirDisplay? known to cause problems.
How you interface with your mac,
Wireless, Keyboard, mouse, Trackpad, all good places to checkout! you probably have already,
keep posting back your findings,
Cheers!

edit:
Simon Morrison wrote logic mlr-frontline
Hot tip:
activating Text to Speech functions and/or turning on Dictation in the Dictation & Speech System Preference panel may introduce audio artifacts (static, clicks and crackles) in Logic. Turn off both Text to Speech (all options) and Dictation before starting a Logic session

[nick1980webb]

not so good for me done a fresh reinstall of ML and all was well for a while and then....GUI stall

[DaveRobinson]

More people with this issue...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... litch.html

Thanks Chrishollis... and from comments in there, this issue also affects Cubase users so that kind of rules out Logic as being the cause.

Additional: I'm also seeing similar comments regarding ML and FCP on another forum... and I myself, had a similar issue this morning with ML on my test non music setup using Photoshop where the interface would become unresponsive for short periods of time... in a similar manner to those reporting issues with non responsiveness with Logic..so again, this would appear to rule out Logic as being at fault but rather some issue with OSX that is the root cause of these GUI issues...

Looking more and more like we need a ML fix..... to resolve these issues.

This 64bit integration between OS X and Logic Pro is a very important one,
You know Logic well, others like myself aren't quite sure of the depth of Logic, features can get easily lost.

Logic should sit nicely is a 64bit environment? ?

If not, Why? Old bugs in Logic? New bugs today? The Logic Pro path?
What is the talk of "Toy" or Pro "Not" Logic, it's confusing, i can Time warp Audio, Destructively edit Wav files,
Does this technology, get in the way sometimes in my DAW?
Im new to Logic, Two years on MBP, Love it, but if i thought Logic Pro, wasn't anymore, i'd revert back to where it was and leave it there.
Looking forward to the first upgrade i hope it fixes these issues and we can all enjoy Logic Pro's development.
Thanks again for all the info

[DaveRobinson]

thx fisherking

Can you try to use in your sessions a channel eq with analyzer ON + for instance a multimeter on a track ? And report us if you have this lagging issue ? (analyzer and multimeter must be feeded with sounds to make graphics activity)

Thanks for your input.

am around tonite to check things, but...i should point out, am running logic EXPRESS, so...i don't HAVE the multimeter. anything else i can check? here's a complex song with logic's eq, plus fabfilter's eq, and compression running...

Great to see plenty of plugins and running fine, Nice!
i wonder how other EXPRESS versions are coping with Lion ML?
The system including the multimeter is going through big changes,
New Logic? for a new os x?
Cheers!

[fisherking]

ha, some of you who doubt me...LOL...

tonite, after a full day of fine-tuning mixes of 4 songs...i experienced an unresponsive logic.
went to adjust an eq, and...i moved the cursor...saw nothing happen....THEN the plugin showed a change.
then there was no visual showing the input signal (ie the analyzer)...then it came on.
went to close it...took a few seconds.

a rare event for me...but there it is...

still, a whole day with no overload warnings, crashes. and the 32bit bridge (which, at least in lion, crashed several times a day), has not crashed ONCE today...a record.

[DaveRobinson]

ha, some of you who doubt me...LOL...

tonite, after a full day of fine-tuning mixes of 4 songs...i experienced an unresponsive logic.
went to adjust an eq, and...i moved the cursor...saw nothing happen....THEN the plugin showed a change.
then there was no visual showing the input signal (ie the analyzer)...then it came on.
went to close it...took a few seconds.

a rare event for me...but there it is...

still, a whole day with no overload warnings, crashes. and the 32bit bridge (which, at least in lion, crashed several times a day), has not crashed ONCE today...a record.

fisherking,
Express intel
You need Logic Express 7.2 or above to run on an Intel Mac. Your Logic version can only run on a PPC Mac.

10.8 mirrors that cull, and leaves us with 64bit kernel.
The next upgrade should give a solid base, finish off the process,
we can look at the problems better once the dust settles.
Is in between express and pro a blueprint maybe?

hypnotik,
macbookpro5 5 logic express
macbookpro5 5 logic pro

How do they compare on Mountain Lion,
are pro users reporting lag more than express users?
without the multimeter, how many machines have lag?

Crash reports are pretty even, Pro and Express, i don't recall seeing lots of one version.
Though you'd think at this time Pro would be most hit, i need to research more.

If my machine had this issue, i'd wait for the upgrade, dig to find out what's happening,
because the fix won't work on some machines, other factors may still trip the graphics.
Cheers!

edit:
Do you see this on macbookpro5 5 ? or in the past?
System Overload.
The audio engine was not able to process all required data in time.
(-10011)

edit: extFw7200rpm non journaled format on install. (working well)

edit: NovAmap
Running the beta meant cleaning up before installing the newer version, once done, repair disk,. permissions.
Doing the same before OS X update also,
Very rare use of my MBP keyboard/trackpad. This is one of them.
using wireless keyboard and Magic mouse most in daily workflow.

[DaveRobinson]

not so good for me done a fresh reinstall of ML and all was well for a while and then....GUI stall

Which Mac model is this? can you give us more details of GUI stall?
would you edit your profile signature with your specs, it helps a lot,

5)-signature Thanks!

[DaveRobinson]

It all depends on what you're doing; if you're running a Logic production rig on a professional level, there's every reason not to update to Mountain Lion at this point. For many people it's proven to be a computer science experiment gone bad, and unfortunately so.

And now, a report from the trenches: from recent conversations with five of my colleagues (engineers, producers, and programmers) who all work at the highest levels in the music world, two are still on OS 9 systems, one is running Tiger, two are running SL. Thoughts of updating to Lion or ML are simply out of the question.

Food for Thought

May I recommend the proven stability of Snow Leopard and Logic 9.1.5? - - - - - - - - - - -

Fall back osx/version, SL - Logic 9.1.5
This era is where i started, no problem!
What about users with newer machines who need this pro?
New machines with Lion ML default? reverted to here?

Support for this version? bug fixes? If not, there should be.
When you do realise you want this version it could be too late, gone!

I would like to see this "era" of Logic Pro development maintained.
The mighty Oak,
300 years growing, 300 years resting, 300 years Gracefully Expiring.

Prevention before cure,
Anyone considering this production machine
can save themselves upgrade/downgrade journey by "Waiting" to see what develops.
You can always upgrade later when things are run in.

Good strategy to know my backups work, When, if needed.,. food for thought, Thanks!

[callingclouds]

"callingclouds, You saw a change, when you setup the Mouse, details like this are important.
What are the specs for your mac? would you post a link?
System info in your profile signature would help a lot."

I will update my signature in a moment with my Mac's specs. They are: 2011 Mac mini 2.3ghz core i5 processor with 500gb hard drive and 8GB RAM. I know this is not as powerful a machine as a Mac Pro or an iMac, but I must stress I had absolutely no unresponsiveness issues in even my most complex of projects before I upgraded to Mountain Lion.

[DaveRobinson]

2011 Mac mini 2.3ghz core i5 processor with 500gb hard drive and 8GB RAM

..but I must stress I had absolutely no unresponsiveness issues in even my most complex of projects before I upgraded to Mountain Lion.

Thanks! 10.6.8 MBP mid2009 lp9.1.7 was the last version running on SL here.
lp9.0.2 the first upgrade from a DvD install of Logic9 Pro.
I may move back! future upgrades will reveal, Logic?
There's a middle ground, some older mac pro machines run lp9pro, no ML available?
These machines have a Logic?v new macs will never see?
lp9pro will be different to ML-Logic9, lp9pro sits in this middle ground,
retina display and brand new models, runing lp9pro?
tracks
I'm looking here,., backup osx10.6.8/logic9.1.5

OS-X-Stable-Logic?

triplets 2012

SL 10.6.8 with 9.1.6 works beautifully.
- - -
32bit-bridge 9.1.5?
32bit-bridge 9.1.6
Big improvements to 32bit bridge 9.1.6?
BugsWorkarounds: Score, Automation, Global Track Headers, Read/Write, Flex-Time, retina displays, No32bit-Graphics. multimeter express-pro Logic?

osx-stable-logic

Score lp9.1.5 os x 10.6.8
Logic and Retina MacBook Pro
Logic-Retina-MacBookPro

edit: Ram: Leopard Snow Leopard Lion Mountain Lion
Which used Mac Pro should I get? (mptgear)
triplets 2010
Nice purchase!
One thing:
Unless you can allocate ram from 3rd party plugins those 16 gigs of ram won't be used at all.
Running Logic 8 on Leopard, both 32-bit, the apps won't use more than 3 gigs.
If you plan to upgrade to Logic 9 and Snow Leopard, and run Logic on 64 bit, then you gonna use it all.
- - -
How is it that Logic is so damn efficient. (logic)
beej 2012
In my experience, and shared by many others I've discussed it with, 4GB of RAM is not sufficient for Lion. On a new 2012 MBP with 4GB Ram and Lion, it hits the swap even on basic stuff like opening web browsers or Mail, and any more heavyweight application just doesn't have enough to work with. Or at least, the machines are sluggish as heck, particularly when working with things like FCP which is quite demanding.

Both my my pimped MBP and a friends stock one had really horrible performance with 4GB and Lion, slow, sluggish and generally the machines didn't feel anywhere like they should. We put 8GB on both machines and it sorted out the issue.

Up to Snow Leopard, 4GB was ok as a standard configuration, but I really feel now that (at least with Lion, don't know about ML which might be more efficient) 4GB is just not enough, and the relative low cost of going to 8GB makes it a must, imo.
- - - - -
Ram 4GB? causing issues on some machines running Logic?