Neighbour jus knocked on door...

[rhys]

complaining about the noise... ooops anyway it was pretty amicable and he let me into his house to have a listen for myself which I did. We agreed I would put the music on to the normal listening volume and I could check it. I have borrowed an spl meter and it says that he is comfortable with the volume between 75db and 80db maximum.

Since I was so interested in what he had to say it now seems he doesn't mind being a little more tolerant of my music as he didn't realise that I produce music and that it was a home studio and I'm not just blasting it for the sake of it, which may seem like a good thing that he doesn't mind it a little louder but I got a feeling it maybe the wake up call I needed as I'm sure I listen too loud (but the bass sounds so nice!!!).

What levels are you guys listening at? even if its a rough estimate. What is a professional listening level if there is one?

Im 31 and my hearing is pretty good for my age, I had it tested not long ago as I had a blocked ear (getting too excited with the cotton buds) so I was sent to an audiologist, even with the blocked ear he said I have the hearing of someone in their early 20's but I understand that isn't the full picture, apparently tinitus can come on from hearing damage despite no actual hearing loss.

I know Will.I.am suffers from tinitus, I can only assume this is from listening too loud or maybe just from going to gigs, anyone have this? if so what levels do you think may have caused this? am I at risk if I carry on at 85 db?

Also could my speakers be under performing at lower levels hence my need to turn them up to judge other parts of the audio spectrum.Im also in the process of insulating my room, could i be turning them up due to poor translation because of my room? Maybe the definition in some areas is not so good. Im currently looking at the KRK studio headphones http://www.dv247.com/headphones/krk-kns ... nes--80557 to reference on so wasn't planning on upgrading these speakers but will if I really need to.

Many thanks, Rhys

[shivermetimbers]

and he let me into his house to have a listen for myself

Are your houses attached?


A typical conversation occurs at 60 dB – not loud enough to cause damage.
A bulldozer that is idling (note that this is idling, not actively bulldozing) is loud enough at 85 dB that it can cause permanent damage after only 1 work day (8 hours).
When listening to a personal music system with stock earphones at a maximum volume, the sound generated can reach a level of over 100 dBA, loud enough to begin causing permanent damage after just 15 minutes per day!
A clap of thunder from a nearby storm (120 dB) or a gunshot (140-190 dB, depending on weapon), can both cause immediate damage.

[David]

I know Will.I.am suffers from tinitus, I can only assume this is from listening too loud or maybe just from going to gigs, anyone have this? if so what levels do you think may have caused this? am I at risk if I carry on at 85 db?

I have tinitus, I've had it since the age of 20, it just suddenly appeared out of the blue. I have been exposed to high levels before, being in a rock band, and playing live shows, and going to other rock shows. I honestly can't say if that is the cause of my tinitus or not, after all it probably participated to it, but most of my friends who were in rock bands and went to rock shows don't have tinitus. I don't have any hearing loss, though, and for example right now I'm in a room with two people speaking softly, and I can't hear it. It's only when I go to sleep and it's a complete silence - then the tinitus rears its ugly head.

The funny thing is, after nearly 20 years of suffering tinitus, it's only annoying when I start paying attention to it. If I don't pay attention to it then I don't really notice it. It's one of those things you can get used to - at least at the level I have it: I understand some people have it much louder which can be unbearable.

[camillo jr]

I've had tinitus since age 17 and I'm pretty sure that came from a series of rock concerts where my ears rang for at least a day afterwards. (Come to think of it, there was also that time when a friend's brother shot off a few rounds from a starter gun in a closed garage. Ouch.) The ringing from the concert would go away but the smaller ringing of tinitus was here to stay from my late teens onwards. Like David, I rarely notice it unless I'm reminded of it like right now. It also changes over time, sometimes growing worse and other times being less so.

Apparently substances like alcohol, pot, asprin and a few others can create tinitus as well as loud sound. I can remember times in my early 20s when I was into ridiculous amounts of alcohol and I would notice that the ringing in my ears would get a lot louder while I was drunk.

As for my studio - I almost always listen quietly, with occasional loud periods to get a reality check on the bass and other frequencies. My clients are always asking me to turn up when we're listening to stuff!

[shivermetimbers]

Since tinnitus is similar to floor noise, I use an Adaptive Cochlea Limiter/Expander plug in to control the level of noise.

[David]

I can remember times in my early 20s when I was into ridiculous amounts of alcohol

At least you can remember!

[camillo jr]

I can remember times in my early 20s when I was into ridiculous amounts of alcohol

At least you can remember!

[ski]

rhys,

What kind of tinnitus do you have? Is it a ringing at one frequency? Multiple frequencies? A whooshing or rushing sound?

As with what Camillo said, aspirin can exacerbate ringing in the ears, so take something else instead. Lack of sleep can also cause bouts of tinnitus. I know that when I don't sleep well for a few days in a row I'll get a spontaneous ringing in one ear. It comes on suddenly, stays for 30 seconds, and then goes away. Strange!

[shivermetimbers]

... I know that when I don't sleep well for a few days in a row I'll get a spontaneous ringing in one ear. zzzzzz .... and in my semi-conscious state I will log onto the Logic forum and start answering questions regardless of the topic. Strange!

[camillo jr]

Lack of sleep can also cause bouts of tinnitus. I know that when I don't sleep well for a few days in a row I'll get a spontaneous ringing in one ear. It comes on suddenly, stays for 30 seconds, and then goes away. Strange!

I've noticed something similar. Could be connected to dehydration.... there are stories about people who get lost in the desert and as they become more and more water deprived, they start loosing their hearing. For people who consume a lot of coffee to stay awake working nights, this could be an issue (which is maybe why alcohol, another diuretic, can cause ringing in the ears.)

[David]

I'll get a spontaneous ringing in one ear. It comes on suddenly, stays for 30 seconds, and then goes away. Strange!

I also get that once in a while - on TOP of the constant, weaker tinitus. I hadn't connected it to lack of sleep, which is a pretty consistent condition with me.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Apparently substances like alcohol, pot, asprin and a few others can create tinitus as well as loud sound. I can remember times in my early 20s when I was into ridiculous amounts of alcohol and I would notice that the ringing in my ears would get a lot louder while I was drunk.

That's interesting, thinking back over loud gigs I've been to, the times when my ears have rung the most afterward is when I was most drunk.

I wonder if it has something to do with alcohol's neural inhibiting effects, like in the same way epilepsy and Tourette's gets worse with alcohol.

[ski]

... I know that when I don't sleep well for a few days in a row I'll get a spontaneous ringing in one ear. zzzzzz .... and in my semi-conscious state I will log onto the Logic forum and start answering questions regardless of the topic. Strange!

Hmmm...

Your post ended with a LOL and a Mr. Greenie so I'll take that FWIW. But I have to tell you that it was a little bit unclear at firstwhether you were ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[rhys]

rhys,

What kind of tinnitus do you have? Is it a ringing at one frequency? Multiple frequencies? A whooshing or rushing sound?

As with what Camillo said, aspirin can exacerbate ringing in the ears, so take something else instead. Lack of sleep can also cause bouts of tinnitus. I know that when I don't sleep well for a few days in a row I'll get a spontaneous ringing in one ear. It comes on suddenly, stays for 30 seconds, and then goes away. Strange!

Sorry maybe I didn't explain that well, I don't have tinnitus or hearing loss yet.... But my neighbour coming around today prompted me to test my levels with an spl reader that said I was listening at 85db. I was wondering the implications of this level on my hearing, it also got me wondering why my speakers sound so crap at 70db and some other things.

I have experienced that sudden ring tho, I get 2 or 3 a week but I've had it sInce I was really young pretty much as far back as I remember. When I happens I also get a feeling of a tiny bit of pressure so I'm sure it's more to do with the ear canal as opposed to my actual hearing.

[ski]

If shivermetimbers doesn't voice any objection I'm going to reply. Shiv? Oh great, he's not here to even ask!

Well, that's great news that you don't have tinnitus. And not that it's pleasant for anyone, but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who gets that ringing/pressure thing. It's so weird, isn't it?!

I don't know the exact terminology for it, but the 85 dB mark is, if I'm not mistaken, a standard listening reference level, though I don't recall where or with whom that standard originated. Be that as it may, I've never known any engineer to sit there with a level meter to ensure that we were at or around 85 dB. In some ways the whole concept is laughable in light of how so many engineers actually work when they mix. So, no, in 25 years of working with some of the world's best engineers, the was nary a level meter in sight! But when I had my room's acoustics measured a few years ago, we set an 85 dB mark for my monitor controller and I do find it a comfortable level to work at.

Now if shivermetimbers would like to question my interest or qualification for participating in this thread, now's the time to say something. Oh look, he's not here!

[shivermetimbers]

Prolonged dB(A) levels exceeding the number 85 will start to cause damage to the hearing. It's a level where you need to raise your voice to be heard. (Don't raise your voice or type loud as you may wake Ski.)



rhys,

Levels are relative to you and the speakers. The more distance you place between yourself and the speakers will require you to 'turn them up.' The closer you are will allow you to 'turn them down.'

There are many factors involved and the biggest problem is usually the six walls that define your space.
The other day, I have an opportunity to set my speakers up outside (no walls); and let me tell you the sound was amazing.

As much as I try, I will not be able to replicate that outside sound while being confined indoors in a small cubicle.
However, without going into long boring detail, I sit very close to my speakers and play back at a low level. The sound is pretty close to what I heard outside because the walls do not have much influence when I sit that close to the speakers.

Just a suggestion that you may want to experiment with lower levels at a lesser distance from your speakers. It could help save your long term hearing as well as your good standing with the neighbors.

[rhys]

Yes the house is a semi btw.

Ive moved my speakers a bit based on your advice from another thread, they are a meter apart now and my head is about a meter from them too. I think the best I can do for now is get them headphones I linked too, am also hoping the sound will translate better once the insulation is finished, the best way I can describe it is when the speakers are low I'm not feeling the bass and Ive become to reliant on feeling it. I am hoping the insulation will tame the high's to allow the lows to be more audible at the lower volume. I may have to get new speakers (maybe a smaller cone) but I refuse to pay for bass traps (they are half constructed, waiting on acoustic cloth and foam tiles for the highs) aside from me being a tight git I don't want to let my Maudio's go as I literally know them like the back of my hand, I listen to nearly all music from them. I at least need them as reference monitors.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

...when the speakers are low I'm not feeling the bass...

I think this statement sums it up. At quiet volumes you can't feel bass. Sometimes you do need to feel the pressure waves hitting you. Especially for dance music.

But, I think it's a good habit to monitor at different levels; quiet, loud and everywhere inbetween. Also, if it's pissing off your neighbour there's not many options. You don't want the police taking your music production stuff because of a noise-abatement order or an ASBO!

[Nublu]

I have "fun neighbor" tinnitus.

If he hears the music at 2am then the ringing in my ears at 5am is the telepone. "Are you sleeping?"

[shivermetimbers]

... they are a meter apart now and my head is about a meter from them too.

I have that same issue where the low end seems to vanish about a meter away from the speakers. That's why I like the alternative 'sweet spot' which is located slightly in front of the speakers. In other words, the speakers are about a meter apart and I sit in between about 1/10th of a meter in front of the speaker plane. My speakers swivel so that I can angle them in and mix/playback at low levels. All the sound is there including the low end.

In smaller rooms, the bass you are after has too much energy to be contained from reflection using bass traps.

i.e. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WcpfeYerps

Headphones that can go down to or below 20Hz will let you 'feel' the bottom end. When I want to turn up the volume, I move to the couch at the back wall and point the speakers forward. The bass returns but with a slight rumble.

Try it by leaning into the center point. You can almost see the phantom sound images and you will be able to pinpoint the 'sweet spot.'

If it works for you, your neighbor will be happier and so will your ears.