Galacticus Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 trying to figure out if my rock band should be giving our producer a share of the writing credits. there are a bunch of songs where he added a bunch of really neat guitar and bass lines, beats and backup vocals. He was very hands on, but the songs had chords, lyrics and melody already. the line between producer and songwriter is really blurry so I wanted to hear what you all think should be deserving of a writing credit, and how much you would throw someone in this position, if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Either credit as producer,or good old fashioned long forgotten epithet "Arranger". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galacticus Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 but do we doll out ownership of the song to this 'arranger'? in the form of writing/publishing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Some producers charge a percentage, which is not the same as owning the song. Say if the song gets covered by someone else, the producer wouldn't get any revenues from that version. It all depends on how you cut the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nev17 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 trying to figure out if my rock band should be giving our producer a share of the writing credits. there are a bunch of songs where he added a bunch of really neat guitar and bass lines, beats and backup vocals. He was very hands on, but the songs had chords, lyrics and melody already. the line between producer and songwriter is really blurry so I wanted to hear what you all think should be deserving of a writing credit, and how much you would throw someone in this position, if any. Hi, Difficult to answer without knowing the ins & outs of the agreement between you and the producer nor the various discussions that have gone on between you during the recording process. Assuming that you are paying the producer for his/her time and that he’s getting points (which I’ll explain, if you want me to) on the album/singles, I would argue that the work the producer has done is fairly compensated for without having to give away a songwriting credit. If he had re-written parts of songs (lyrics/melody), he has an argument but, even then, I’d think twice about giving away a credit. In my opinion, it would need to be a significant rewrite, which, of course, is open to interpretation. From album sales, even without a songwriting credit, the average producer agreement will probably benefit the producer to a greater extent than any individual band member. And the producer will earn from record one. You won’t. I would take this as a default position and work from there. If, for example, the top producer in your field discovers you, works your songs in pre-production, gives you his time and energy above and beyond the call of duty and delivers what everyone considers to be a hit, I wouldn’t begrudge him a share of the songwriting. He’ll have earned it. Think also about how it will affect the band members who don’t have any songwriting credits. This can be a real source of bitterness in the camp. Successful bands have broken up for less. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Monkey Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 but do we doll out ownership of the song to this 'arranger'? in the form of writing/publishing? No. If you credit the producer as writer/publisher he can stake a claim on the song(s) and all future royalties will be shared with him. If you're/he's a member of ASCAP as writer, publisher or both and you/he register the songs with ASCAP you are/he is entitled to a percentage of the royalties. As it is, writers get 50% and publishers get 50%. Now if you have multiple writers and publishers these royalties get divided even further to compensate all who were involved in the process. Unless your producer actually wrote the entire composition and is actually the one publishing the work I would just stick to a producer credit and pay him his flat fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdee Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Just look at The Beatles and George Martin. They wrote the songs. Sure Martin scored arrangements and even played piano and what not on some songs but other than his writing credits on Yellow Submarine etc he was just the Producer. My answer is no do not give a writing credit where it is not due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This is a personal choice based on the unique relationship you have with your producer. You have to find a solution that makes him happy and you happy. There have been many a song where the producer swapped the position of two words in the lyrics in order to claim 50% of the publishing. And there have been many a songwriter willing to give them the 50% just for the opportunity to work with that producer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galacticus Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 " If, for example, the top producer in your field discovers you, works your songs in pre-production, gives you his time and energy above and beyond the call of duty and delivers what everyone considers to be a hit, I wouldn’t begrudge him a share of the songwriting. He’ll have earned it." the above quote is pretty accurate. while lyrics chords and melody were done by the band, he did a lot of pre-production, top notch guitar playing, and spent much more time with us than he had planned. I'm inclined to give him something... my writing partner is dead against it. of course i'd prefer no bad blood, but i can see where both people are coming from and its stressing me out. were about to hammer it out, I'm just hoping he asks for something reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Your writing partner might be dead against it but if the song breaks, then everybody wins in a shared income scenario. Sure, you've got to protect your intellectual property but when someone's really given you a leg up, why not recognize that somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nev17 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hi Galacticus, If you don't mind divulging it, how many points is the producer earning? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nev17 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hello again Galacticus, To properly help you I need considerably more info. I'm more than happy for you to PM me if you want to discuss it privately. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galacticus Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 he originally was going to get 2 points, but since someone else assisted in mixing, he may not get that second point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galacticus Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 really wish this had been hammered out before we started. its been pointed out that not doing this isn't the most professional way to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nev17 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 You can't be expected to think of every eventuality. I'll reply to your PM. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNotator Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 but do we doll out ownership of the song to this 'arranger'? in the form of writing/publishing? No [...] As it is, writers get 50% and publishers get 50%. [...] Unless your producer actually wrote the entire composition and is actually the one publishing the work I would just stick to a producer credit and pay him his flat fee. I'm with Blue Monkey on this one. What the OP describes is a standard production job and the producer should not get a percentage of the writer nor the publisher share of the song. Not to make it any more confusing but the publisher and writer share of a song are calculated as two different entities. A songwriter can have 100% of the writer share and 25% of the publishing share while the publisher receives the remaining 75% of the publishing share. If your producer helps you get a deal with a record company/publisher he will ask for a share of the publishing portion. Otherwise he is usually compensated hourly and may also earn points based on the number of records sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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