Can a sound make a sound

[rainstick]

Can a sound make a sound, ?

Came up last night... thought I'd throw it out there....

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Yes, if the pressure wave makes another object resonate.

[rainstick]

that was kind of what i thought, and a sound kind of has to make a sound to be a sound i guess...

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Well, sound is as much to do with the medium the pressure wave moves (or doesn't) through, as the event that might cause a sound. This is why beating a bass drum in space is a different kettle of fish than beating it underwater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound

Then you also have to consider the difference between sound and hearing, as in the old: "If a tree falls in the woods..." thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_%28sense%29

[CarlosUnderground]

So the egg came before the chicken? Figures!

[David]

Can a non-sound make a sound? For example tinnitus, that ringing in my ear: is that a sound, even though it only exists in my brain?

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Can a non-sound make a sound? For example tinnitus, that ringing in my ear: is that a sound, even though it only exists in my brain?

It's a perception of a sound, but not a sound. Auditory hallucination.

It's the same, philosophically speaking, as hearing and seeing in dreams.

[David]

It's a perception of a sound, but not a sound. Auditory hallucination.

AH - but how do you define what a "sound" is? According to Merriam Webster, the perception itself defines the sound (at least in the first 2 definitions):

Sound
a : a particular auditory impression : tone
b : the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing
c : mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

Well, there you go. The weakness of definitions is once again brought to the fore as we dissolve into a puddle of semantics...

[David]

I don't think of it as a weakness, it's an ambiguity in the language that reflects an ambiguity in our reality: we sometimes don't perceive pressure waveforms as sound, and we sometimes perceive sounds when there's no pressure waveform reaching our eardrums (at least I do).

The dream example is also an interesting one, we could add hypnose (like reading a book for example), drugs, synesthesia, hallucinations (which you mentioned) etc...

I am fascinated by the study of how we perceive things and how far our perception is from reality. So many differences. Fascinating.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

I don't think of it as a weakness, it's an ambiguity in the language that reflects an ambiguity in our reality: we sometimes don't perceive pressure waveforms as sound, and we sometimes perceive sounds when there's no pressure waveform reaching our eardrums (at least I do).

Oh no, I didn't mean to infer I regard it as a weakness in our language, I completely agree with you that ambiguity is a great thing. There wouldn't be half as much poetry were that not the case!

It is a weakness for those who rely on definitions though (curse them! ). A definition is not worth much if it isn't... definitive.

I am fascinated by the study of how we perceive things and how far our perception is from reality. So many differences. Fascinating.

Me too, it's exciting stuff; the doors of perception and all that.

[Scott Jackson]

Can a sound make a sound, ?

Echo

[rainstick]

yeh, someone said echo, then someone said that echo didn't count because it was the same sound... Yet obviously if you were to (and able to) record the original sound and it's echo and compare the two they would be different, although from the same source.... I guess you could almost compare that to whether I'm the same person i was when i was 10 years old, or just a series of 'echo's' chained through memory... ho ho ho!

[Scott Jackson]

yeh, someone said echo, then someone said that echo didn't count because it was the same sound...

It's not the same sound.

It is the same vibration reflected but it is not the same sound.

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

I guess you could almost compare that to whether I'm the same person i was when i was 10 years old, or just a series of 'echo's' chained through memory... ho ho ho!

I like the Buddhist view of that; personality is like a candle flame, it appears very similar throughout time (and exhibits similar behaviour), but it is never actually the same flame at any point in time.

Memory anchors behaviour into expected routines, aside from innate genetic reflexes, which is why novel environments can be very liberating. Philip K Dick explored the relationship between memory and personality in depth, the most famous example is "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?", which Ridley Scott used as a basis for the film Bladerunner.

[BCJames]

I have become a silent movie
The hero killed the clown
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound

Nobody knows what he's doing
Still hanging around
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound

The slow motion moves me
The monologue means nothing to me

Bored in the role, but he can't stop
Standing up to sit back down
Or lose the one thing found
Spinning the world like a toy top
'Til there's a ghost in every town
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound
Can't make a sound

Eyes locked and shining
Can't you tell me what's happening?
Why should you want any other when you're a world within a world?
Why should you want any other when you're a world within a world?
Why should you want any other when you're a world within a world?
Why should you want any other when you're a world within a world?

[rainstick]

personality is like a candle flame, it appears very similar throughout time (and exhibits similar behaviour), but it is never actually the same flame at any point in time

yes, that's quite a nice little sentence rev! i think there's a similar phrase about the river and it's water or something...

I've never read any of Philip k. Dick's but it's a name I've bumped into a few times... Bladerunner however, boom! ace.

cheers for the elliot smith lyrics... i guess

[Rev. Juda$ Sleaze]

i think there's a similar phrase about the river and it's water or something...

There is indeed, I heartily recommend reading Herman Hesse's "Siddhartha", it's not very long or difficult to read, and makes Paulo Coelho's "The Alchemist" look like a kid's book.

[shivermetimbers]

Can a sound make a sound, ?

Came up last night... thought I'd throw it out there....

Yes, a sound can definitely make a sound.

For example, when I fart a really smelly fart, the sound of the fart ( PHFFFFFTTTTTT!!!!! ) causes another sound ( PEEEE YEEWWWW) to be made.

[Scott Jackson]

Yes, a sound can definitely make a sound.

For example, when I fart a really smelly fart, the sound of the fart ( PHFFFFFTTTTTT!!!!! ) causes another sound ( PEEEE YEEWWWW) to be made.