MS Processor/Shuffler, or . . Chaos

[fader8]

OK, there's a lot of different ways to set up a Mid-Side process in Logic 8, but here's one I like to use for various things. While this example could be used for simple boring bass shuffling and MS EQ for mastering, it's much more fun for playing around with spatiality on lush pads or fat leads.

I've split the stereo track to two pairs of mono aux's, assigned L, R, L, R respectively. The polarity and the panning is swapped for the second pair. The linear EQ's on aux 3 & 4 allow you to swap low shelves for high shelves, depending on whether you want to "decentralize" the high end or low end.

With aux 3 & 4 all the way down, there's no effect. Bring up those faders slowly, which are grouped in this example, and you'll hear the widening effect depending on how the EQ's are set. This is nice for fine tuning a final mix, but it's very handy for opening up a string section stem, for example. Try dragging a full mix onto the audio track in this example and try it out.

But taking it a step further for synth tracks, try mixing up various and sundry plug-ins, eg distortion, chorus, delay, dynamics, etc., on the four auxes individually. Rhythmically automating the mute of the aux 3 & 4 group can be interesting too.

Most of all, have fun.

[camillo jr]

Fader8 I am intrigued. I have started using MS processing with FabFilter's ProC compressor. It's very cool what you can do with that. But your set-up looks more flexible. What is "Bass shuffling"?

[fader8]

What is "Bass shuffling"?

If you think of a stereo mix as being three components, left, right, and center, or Mid, and together the Sides of the stereo image, then you can consider that the perceived width could be changed by increasing the gain of the sides and decreasing the center of the image.

Bass shuffling is when you do this only with the bass components of the signal.

[ChicoSatis]

Always love your tips Fader. Thanks again for taking the time.

HAve a good one.

[majool]

thanks fader 8.

definitely get some interesting effects out of your template. i know you mentioned that there are many ways to do it in logic, but i'm a little lost though as to how it would work for m/s mastering as you mentioned. is there no decoder? also, what about the 6dB gain drops? i've only recently been exploring m/s mastering in logic

i just set up a m/s template recently and have attached that. i'm assuming i've done it correctly, but would like to know if i've missed something since what you've got going is totally different from my set-up.

as far as i understand it, the formula should be:
encode:
m = .5 x (l+r)
s = .5 x (l-r)
decode:
L= M+S
R= M-S

thanks!

[fader8]

i'm a little lost though as to how it would work for m/s mastering as you mentioned. is there no decoder? also, what about the 6dB gain drops?

It's a different way to skin the cat, just with different options. I've attached a more "traditional" MS processing template here too. One technique may fit for some things while the other doesn't. Anyway, try this one out too.

[majool]

cheers will check that out

[majool]

just realized i never uploaded my method to share/examine. jeez...can't get the upload to work. oh well...

[majool]

thanks fader 8 for sharing.
here's my simple m/s duties setup. alas, i think i figure out how to upload! sorry for the multiple posts

[camillo jr]

What is "Bass shuffling"?

If you think of a stereo mix as being three components, left, right, and center, or Mid, and together the Sides of the stereo image, then you can consider that the perceived width could be changed by increasing the gain of the sides and decreasing the center of the image.

Bass shuffling is when you do this only with the bass components of the signal.

More intrigue. Since bass tends to be omnidirectional, how does this effect the stereo width? Or is it done for another reason? I could imagine using the mid channel to push up or pull down the bass. Or maybe use the bass in the sides to make a more omnipresent bass?

[fader8]

here's my simple m/s duties setup.

Cheers, majool. That method works very well.

Since bass tends to be omnidirectional, how does this effect the stereo width? Or is it done for another reason?

Typically you'd use this for troubled mixes. Lopsided bass, or if all the bass elements have been jammed in the middle. But it can be used creatively too, to just add spaciousness, or remove it, etc. Keep in mind that these techniques have to be used very subtly in mastering or they'll destroy or change a mix too much. For sound design however, anything goes.

[majool]

also, worth noting that brainworx has a free encoder.
http://www.brainworx-music.de/index.php ... =2&lang=en

it's a great and quick tool, but unfortunately i haven't been able to get complete cancellation when testing it (near complete though) which makes me a bit skeptical and old fashioned.

[fader8]

it's a great and quick tool, but unfortunately i haven't been able to get complete cancellation when testing it (near complete though) which makes me a bit skeptical and old fashioned.

Well, it's all about what you're going to use it for. To be frank, for mastering type work, I use the Waves MS Matrix -> EQ -> S1 Imager or Shuffler. But for mad scientist synth work, that brainworx plug or the routings I posted above, can be a lot of fun.

Muhuhahaha!

[fader8]

This thing:
http://www.mathewlane.com/DrMS.html
looks pretty cool for thrashing about the stereo field. Just came to my attention.

[camillo jr]

Speaking of bass (and treble) shuffling Fader 8, have you looked at Sindo?

[FNHNY]

I've split the stereo track to two pairs of mono aux's, assigned L, R, L, R respectively. The polarity and the panning is swapped for the second pair. The linear EQ's on aux 3 & 4 allow you to swap low shelves for high shelves, depending on whether you want to "decentralize" the high end or low end.

aux 3 and 4 on this file (thanks for the file btw!!!) have the phase reversed...shouldn't it just be Aux 4?

[lagerfeldt]

thanks fader 8 for sharing.
here's my simple m/s duties setup. alas, i think i figure out how to upload! sorry for the multiple posts

Thanks, I'll be using this for my students tomorrow at university.

[lagerfeldt]

David, shouldn't this be in the Templates subforum?

[David]

David, shouldn't this be in the Templates subforum?

You're right! I moved the thread.