Record Stop Effect

Logic Pro X (and older versions) questions and troubleshooting

Record Stop Effect

Postby exiquio » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 pm

Does anyone know how to create the record stopping effect in Logic 8 without having to resort to any kind of pitch bend sort of thing? It's very common in Rnb and Hip Hop. I used to use Serato Scratch or DiFi when I was a ProTools guy to do that sort of thing but I can't seem to find any plug-in that's AU that does it.
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Postby David Nahmani » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:15 pm

What's wrong with Pitch Bend? That way you wouldn't need to install yet another plug-in just for that use. The EXS24 does a great job.

Obviously, it's just a matter of drawing a "speed" fade in Logic 9 - even easier.
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Postby exiquio » Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:32 pm

Hey David, thanks for the extremely quick reply. Technically there is nothing wrong with pitch bend, I've just read from some people as I've been researching this that doing it with the pitch bend doesn't sound as good. For the record (no pun intended) I haven't personally tried it yet I just really liked the way Serato would sound / do it.


/Edit

Just tried doing it with the pitch bend and found it impossible to get it to sound natural...went back to DiFi and it came out right the first time. It's just a pain in the ass to go back and forth between Logic and PT.
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Postby pantomimeHorse » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:00 am

I use DSP-Quattro when I need this effect (rarely).
-
Placing a pitch curve AND a tempo curve over the audio
region is the only solution. When you stop and think what is
actually going on when a turntable slows, this is logical and I
would presume that the DiFi algorithm emulates this the same
way.

-
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Postby mtec » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:20 am

Upgrade to Logic 9 and use the fade slow down function from the inspector.
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Postby David Nahmani » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:23 am

pantomimeHorse wrote:I use DSP-Quattro when I need this effect (rarely).
-
Placing a pitch curve AND a tempo curve over the audio
region is the only solution. When you stop and think what is
actually going on when a turntable slows, this is logical and I
would presume that the DiFi algorithm emulates this the same
way.


Note that the pitch bend on the EXS24 would yield the same results. Not sure why you can't get it to sound natural. Maybe cascade a few pitch routings to get a wider pitch range.
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Postby pantomimeHorse » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:32 am

I will bow to mtec's knowledge of LP9, if it achieves the
effect. I just do it another way, that's all.
-
@David: A pitch bend, however executed, cannot emulate a
tempo curve, though, can it ? When you slow a deck, you are
getting a combination of the two. That is probably why the OP
expressed dissatisfaction with the result.
-
Also, when a turntable slows down, the rotational velocity
curve (and hence both pitch and tempo) is far from linear.
A straight line for either of these will produce an unnatural
sounding simulation. The curve needs to be (I've found) an
inverted exponential one. Initial rate of speed decay is high,
gradually reducing over time.

FWIW !

-
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Postby David Nahmani » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:37 am

pantomimeHorse wrote:I will bow to mtec's knowledge of LP9, if it achieves the effect.

Hey it was in my original answer!

@David: A pitch bend, however executed, cannot emulate a
tempo curve, though, can it ? When you slow a deck, you are
getting a combination of the two. That is probably why the OP
expressed dissatisfaction with the result.

But that's exactly what a sampler does (any sampler, including the EXS24): a tape slow down effect: when you bend the pitch down, the sample slows down. Bend the pitch up and the sample speeds up. Just like a record or a tape.

Quick example of a "record stop" effect with the EXS24 and its pitch bend:

<center>
<EMBED SRC="http://logicprohelp.com/slowdown.mp3" WIDTH="500" HEIGHT="15" AUTOPLAY="false" CONTROLLER="true" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/" BGCOLOR="#000000" LOOP="false"></center>
Last edited by David Nahmani on Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pantomimeHorse » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:46 am

Yes, David.
-
You're right, in respect of how a sampler *reads* the file.
The change of "tempo" is simulated by the change in the
rate of read.

Why, then, does it simply not sound right ?
And it certainly doesn't, in my experience.

Maybe the curve shape (as per my last post) IS the answer.

-
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Postby David Nahmani » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:48 am

And you have total control over the curve shape... see my previous mp3 example.
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Postby pantomimeHorse » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:50 am

Hmmm...
-
This calls for some experimentation in the studio !

(Help ! I'm turning into Ski ...) 8)

-
pH

Edit: On your mp3, the tempo artifact was definitely not in
sync with the pitch artifact. Didn't sound natural. The speed
begins to reduce long before there's any hint of pitch shift.
(To my ears, anyway)
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Re: Record Stop Effect

Postby Tankfield » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:22 am

exiquio wrote:Does anyone know how to create the record stopping effect in Logic 8 without having to resort to any kind of pitch bend sort of thing?

Try Turntablist Pro.
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Postby involver » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:54 am

Pantomime horse:
I don't see why you can't do it with pitch bend. When a record slows down the speed of playback also slows down and as a result the pitch also changes. Exactly the same thing happens with the EXS24 (it does not have any time-stretching algorithms).

(The things to change to make it sound authentic are the automation curve and the pitch bend range.)
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Postby chrisbrownsound » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:15 am

David wrote:Obviously, it's just a matter of drawing a "speed" fade in Logic 9 - even easier.

Best solution = Upgrade to Logic 9
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Postby district78 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:40 am

Try effectrix from sugar bytes. We make a living with that sound and it's the easiest way to pull it off without an upgrade to Logic 9.
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Postby pantomimeHorse » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:49 am

involver wrote:Pantomime horse:
I don't see why you can't do it with pitch bend. When a record slows down the speed of playback also slows down and as a result the pitch also changes. Exactly the same thing happens with the EXS24 (it does not have any time-stretching algorithms).

(The things to change to make it sound authentic are the automation curve and the pitch bend range.)


Hi involver (long time you no post !)

Yeah. I wasn't wanting this to develop into a big issue or anything.
The main point for me is that the sampler route somehow doesn't
sound authentic.

The curve will be everything, I guess, if you're doing it that way, so
basically I agree with you. To add fuel to an already blazing fire, there
is also the amplitude curve to consider: As a turntable slows, so the
voltage at the pickup decreases. This is far from linear and is a function
of the absolute speed under the needle. (On a 12" disk, without any
cutting compensation, the voltage output by the pickup at the run-out
would only be about 45% of that at the run-in.)

So, for a record stop effect, you have to emulate the amplitude tending
to zero as the "speed" tends to zero. This is probably another reason
why sampler-based attempts don't sound "real".

-
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Postby fader8 » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:24 am

There are so many variables in a platter slowing to a stop that I think what sounds "real" is going to be very subjective. If it's a 45rpm 12" and you're stopping it when the needle is at the outside of the record, that's going to be hugely different than a 33rpm stopped when the stylus is near the center. (Or is that the other way round? Ugh.) You've also got direct vs belt drive, etc.

Pitch bending a sample with automation should work fine. You just have to get the duration and deceleration (curve) to suit your taste. David's suggestion of ganging more than one pitch bend mod in EXS is probably necessary, I would think.
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Postby exiquio » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:30 pm

Hey guys thanks for the input, I know I don't want to go to 9 just yet for fear that it might not play nice with my 3rd party plug-ins and the pending project I'm on.
Hey "pantomimeHorse" the app you suggested "DSP Quattro" is a stand alone if I'm not mistaken...correct? That's what I gather from going to their website anyways, in which case it unfortunately leaves in the same predicament of having to get outta Logic and use another app to do the job. I am gonna try "TurnTablist" and see how that goes though.
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Postby pantomimeHorse » Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:57 pm

Hey, exiquio !
-
I didn't want to turn your thread into a science lab, here.
Sorry.
-
Different guys work different ways.
I don't often need that effect but, when I do, I do it in Quattro, sure.
I work out what I need from the audio file beforehand and make it
work in Quattro. Then it goes into Logic.
-
Maybe takes the spontaneity out of the task, which perhaps wouldn't
suit a hip-hop producer or artist.

Fader8's comments are, as always, good to go.

-
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Postby lagerfeldt » Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:24 pm

fader8 wrote:hould work fine. You just have to get the duration and deceleration (curve) to suit your taste. David's suggestion of ganging more than one pitch bend mod in EXS is probably necessary, I would think.

What I do to get a wider pitch range (+/-24) is to pitch down the audio -12 and then playback the sample while holding the pitchbend up. The sample is then played at normal speed.

Once I start turning the pitchwheel I get -12 from top to zero and another -12 from zero to bottom, instead of the regular -12.

Only takes a few seconds to do, and a range of 24 is more than enough to do a real slowdown effect.
Last edited by lagerfeldt on Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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