Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Logic Pro X (and older versions) questions and troubleshooting

Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Postby lono » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:40 pm

I've been working with a blind student who is amazing at the voice over tool. However, we can not get into the mixer and properly play around the way we would like to. We've tried to set up control surfaces so she can adjust the pan and volume of the selected track. However, it only works if I select the parameter and then have her finish the set up.

How can we do use key commands to adjust pan in the mixer, and add bus or inserts? We've been trying, but are failing. Does anyone know a way we can do some of these tasks? Again, the student is blind, so a mouse is out of the question. I would love to be able to program keys for "pan selected track left" or "add insert to selected track". I can't seem to find a key for it, and could use someone very advanced with key commands to help me out.

Thanks for your help.
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Postby shivermetimbers » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:11 pm

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Postby involver » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:04 am

Perhaps a hardware controller like the Euphonix or Mackie Control would help?
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Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Postby Nublu » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:14 pm

involver wrote:Perhaps a hardware controller like the Euphonix or Mackie Control would help?


Or even an AlphaTrack. All of its functions are reachable after a person's hand is placed on it.

If there is a store close by where you could demo it, you might be pleasantly surprised.
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Re: Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Postby kevjazz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:40 pm

As a blind person myself, there is one important thing that some of you may not be realizing. Certain things can be assigned to a control surface. But, beyond the obvious of hearing the volume or pan change as you move a fader, certain parameter information will not be relayed to the blind user even if he or she moves a button or fader. What's needed here, along with the key shortcuts the original poster requested, is for Voiceover to work seamlessly with Logic. Since Apple owns Logic, I'm sure that this will happen some day. I'm actually joining this list to learn more about Logic in advance of that day.
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Nublu wrote:
involver wrote:Perhaps a hardware controller like the Euphonix or Mackie Control would help?


Or even an AlphaTrack. All of its functions are reachable after a person's hand is placed on it.

If there is a store close by where you could demo it, you might be pleasantly surprised.
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Re: Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Postby shivermetimbers » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:51 am

kevjazz wrote:As a blind person myself, there is one important thing that some of you may not be realizing. Certain things can be assigned to a control surface. But, beyond the obvious of hearing the volume or pan change as you move a fader, certain parameter information will not be relayed to the blind user even if he or she moves a button or fader. What's needed here, along with the key shortcuts the original poster requested, is for Voiceover to work seamlessly with Logic. Since Apple owns Logic, I'm sure that this will happen some day. I'm actually joining this list to learn more about Logic in advance of that day.
Kevin




(to be read with text to speech preference on)

Asi ai sighti seeingi personi , Ii tooi wouldi appreciatei thei usei ofi voicei controlledi commandsi .
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Postby kevjazz » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:42 am

Respectfully, I think you may be misunderstanding what we're talking about here. What you want is a speech driven system. What we need is a system where text, and, almost more importantly, objects, can be spoken to the user. This is the reverse of what you describe.
The original poster never even discussed things like song position, screen location, track name, mute, solo and arm status and so on.  We need all that and more.
I know that a lot of this can be inferred but you wouldn't want to guess what's going on by having to figure out what's missing.
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Postby shivermetimbers » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:29 am

kevjazz wrote:Respectfully, I think you may be misunderstanding what we're talking about here. What you want is a speech driven system. What we need is a system where text, and, almost more importantly, objects, can be spoken to the user. This is the reverse of what you describe.
The original poster never even discussed things like song position, screen location, track name, mute, solo and arm status and so on.  We need all that and more.
I know that a lot of this can be inferred but you wouldn't want to guess what's going on by having to figure out what's missing.


So you are not totally blind. What I wrote makes no sense on a text to speech converter.

You would know your needs better than I would. I have enough trouble finding whatever it is I need whether I can see it or not. I would rather give a direct command rather than poke around hoping to find whatever it is I am searching for.

The first thing would be to have a total understanding of Logic and everything it does. I mean know it inside and out.

The next step would be to block Logic out in sections that relate to a specific task.

For example, I want to open a new track and add some plugins.

My commands would be:
'New Audio Track'
'Insert Slot 1'
'Insert'
'Compressor'

I have a few compressor presets for guitar, vocal, etc that saves me time and I can tweak if need be.

So most of the 'expensive' controllers can do all this, where-as the rest of us have to use a mouse driven system. Cheap controllers and key commands do not allow some of the functions available with a mouse.

It would ultimately be up to a third party developer to write the code to interface voice controlled commands to Logic so that the work flow for everyone would be easier.

I for one have a terrible memory and cannot remember to shift-click this button to get to some other parameter where I then have to opt-shift and press three times to open up the menu in order to insert a bass clef sign into the score. An expensive controller can do that if you remember all those steps. The mouse is easier and cheaper. Unfortunately for the seeing impaired, the number of people may be too few to warrant such an in-depth software program for a specific DAW.
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Postby Mr. V » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:23 am

Iono,

Start your research using the "Get Help in Your State" pop-up located here: http://www.ataporg.org/atap/index.php

An assistive technology professional will be the most knowledgeable of currently available hardware/software options.

In my state, the program is call TechACCESS which is a veritable (rather than virtual) show room of all available forms of assistive technology with individuals who can assess what can be reasonably accomplished given:
1. an individuals mix of strengths and impairments,
2. available supports (family, significant others, etc)
3. funding resources

You could discuss with them the level of visual impairment; how Logic is designed to operate; and the desired performance outcome of this individual with a visual impairment.

Here's an informative link to heighten our awareness of the various levels of visual impairment:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5052348_defin ... aired.html

If you do find a solution, please post it here for future reference.
Last edited by Mr. V on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kevjazz » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:20 am

Thank you for your constructive reply. I may check out the resources in MN. Although, I think I'm probably on top of it.
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Postby shivermetimbers » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:44 am

Looks as if he cannot thank you enough. (dreaded internal server error).
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Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Postby Nublu » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:28 pm

kevjazz wrote:The original poster never even discussed things like song position, screen location, track name, mute, solo and arm status and so on.  We need all that and more.

I couldn't agree more, and I hope this is all realized. +1 for you posting here.

I mentioned the AlphaTrack because it is a start. The original poster (Iono) also mentions working with the Student, which in itself is a huge plus.
From Frontier Design Group's Site:
"AlphaTrack also has three touch-sensitive encoders, a feature previously found only on high-end gear costing thousands of dollars. These let you adjust track and plug-in parameters while the 32-character backlit display shows detailed feedback in response to your touch. The encoders provide quick control of pans, sends, EQ, plug-ins, and automation."

That is a fair amount of artistry at one's fingertips.

"AlphaTrack also has a set of 22 buttons and 21 LED’s, including standard transport controls, per track record, solo, mute, and automation indication, and encoder mode control. When supported by the computer application, a set of buttons can also be customized with user-programmable functions."
Which would accessed through touch... including an identifiable "click".

I understand that it may be less than perfect, but I believe it is a genuine step forward. At least worth a look.
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Postby Mr. V » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:00 pm

shivermetimbers wrote:Looks as if he cannot thank you enough. (dreaded internal server error).


Duly noted. :D
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Postby Mr. V » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:25 pm

Last week I attended the TechACCESS of RI assistive technology conference. One session of particular interest was presented by a young college grad who is blind. He demonstrated the use of Sonar v8.5 with the Dancing Dots scripts (as mentioned at the start of this thread). Pretty amazing. The speaker also referenced a blind producer using Sonar.
http://artists.anthologysd.com/singer-s ... il-8-2011/

I mentioned Logic, and of course he was familiar with VoiceOver, including that is wasn't working with Logic.

An Apple rep was also at the conference who indicated that he was able to use VoiceOver with Garage Band but not with Logic.

His recommendation was to encourage individuals to contact the accessibility unit requesting Logic/VoiceOver compatibility.

The address is here: accessibility@apple.com

Please drop them a line on behalf of the visually impaired who want to make music with Logic.
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Re: Blind student using Logic, using the mixer?

Postby blindbravo » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:52 am

hey everyone, I am completely blind due to an injury sustained during combat operations in the middle east in may of 2008. i have learned how to use the screen reader voice over by apple and the screen reader JAWS (job access With Speech) by freedom scientific. both of these screen readers are amazing and allow the blind to operate electronic devices without the assistance of a sighted individual. i'm writing because i'm interested in composing music, recording music/audio and mixing and mastering audio. what i've learned over the past 4 years as a blind guy, is that you have to find your own way sometimes and this might mean developing unconventional methods to accomplish a specific task.

i use garage band to pod cast about accessible technology. i just started, so there is not a tremendous amount of shows yet. visit my blog and podcast

http://www.blindhow.net

i really want to use a more advanced digital audio software recording program on the apple macintosh operating system platform, but have learned that there are many more blind individuals utilizing the PC and microsoft operating system along side JAWS to do their recording. my podcast exists to help blind users get more out of their technology. i do not know everything, but want to teach anyone who is just starting out with accessible technology. i have spent a lot of time teaching myself how to jump around programs that are not very accessible, i hope my podcast can help others learn faster. here in the near future, i plan to go into more detail about how i use garage band to do my podcast and how i will use it to record my drum set. i have a yamaha mixer, a number of XLR microphones, firewire audio interface etc…

thanks for all of your posts

i apologize about my sound levels and quality in my podcast. i am a little impatient and have been trying to figure out how best to record my computers audio and my voice. still learning myself...
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