Bounce in Place (Midi to Audio) Not syncing properly

When I bounce a track in place, my midi to audio almost always bounces not in time with my plugin. The audio bounce of the file is always off point and It's really time consuming then to grab the audio and drag it until its in time with where my midi is.

 

For example, I can have a midi of 4 kicks in a 4 bar pattern, all on the 1st beat... and if I bounce track in place, the audio bounce is somehow shifted and not where I have my midi notes playing. Its like 155ms off. Its not too much of an issue when I have midi with strong transients and when they are on the beat. But when I have notes in between beats with not so strong transients, its a pain and it take so much time from creative process.

 

Is there a setting that I am missing in logic to get my "Bounce Track in Place" to bounce midi to audio with the audio created being matched with the midi I want bounced in the right time?

Is deleay compensation set to "All" in the Logic preferences?

Is deleay compensation set to "All" in the Logic preferences?

 

Yes, Plug-In Latency Compensation is set to ALL. Is that what you are referring to?

Is deleay compensation set to "All" in the Logic preferences?

 

Yes, Plug-In Latency Compensation is set to ALL. Is that what you are referring to?

 

Yes, thats what I meant.

 

Does it do it even in an empty project?

What plugins are you using?

Is the MIDI an audio instrument or hardware?

Is deleay compensation set to "All" in the Logic preferences?

 

Yes, Plug-In Latency Compensation is set to ALL. Is that what you are referring to?

 

Yes, thats what I meant.

 

Does it do it even in an empty project?

What plugins are you using?

Is the MIDI an audio instrument or hardware?

 

Ya, I'm not taxing my CPU at all and it happens. I can be using 1 soft synth and it happens... No external gear. Its happening with xFer Nerve, Sylenth, NI Synths.... anything really. I even went about and was working with a vocal and put a Reaktor FX on the chain and when I bounced in place, it was off time as well. The vocal was an audio clip.

....I just opened an empty project and dropped in an apple loop with midi and bounced it in place... Im having the same issue. The instrument that the apple loop used was the EXS24... 4 bar loop.

 

Did it with another apple loop which used the logic bass plugin and the same thing occurred.

Here is a screenshot... as you can see, the bounce takes place but it's start point is delayed.

Does it still do it if you start from Logics "Empty Project" template? Also, I'm not quote sure why there are no insert slots on your output channel?

Just tried and It works fine if i use the logic 'Empty Template'... Im stumped.

Anyone else have suggestions?

Anyone else have suggestions?

 

Import the contents to a new empty project?

 

J.

Anyone else have suggestions?

 

Import the contents to a new empty project and forget about it?

 

J.

 

Exactly. By finding that the empty project doesn't have the issue we haved determined that there is some problem with the project you were working on. As Jordito says, try importing into a fresh project. Perhaps also think about building a fresh autoload as well to avoid future problems.

Hi Erik,

 

This is a new one to me, but for some reason, when bouncing tracks in place with "Include Volume/Pan Automation" checked and Plug-in Latency Compensation set to "All", the compensating delay that's added to the track's channel strip output doesn't seem to be accounted for. This leads to the bounced signal being late by the amount of the compensating delay that's being added to the channel strip.

 

The solution is to either uncheck "Include Volume/Pan Automation", or switch your Plug-in Latency Compensation preference to "Audio and Software Instrument Tracks", instead of "All". Choose whichever best suits your situation.

 

This is a strange one though, because when bouncing regions in place, the compensating delay that's added by All mode is accounted for, resulting in the bounced signal being in sync, regardless of the above settings.

 

Hope that sorts the problem for you.

 

Tom

Edited April 17, 2011 by nosebagger

Just to add to the above:

 

After more fiddling, it appears that tracks that are bounced in place with "Include Volume/Pan Automation" checked will end up in sync if "Include Instrument Multi-Outputs" is also checked, but "As Additional Tracks" is not checked.

 

If "As Additional Tracks" is checked too, the bounce will be once again out of sync ... ... (again, either of the workarounds in my first post will fix this situation).

 

Tom

Tom...

 

THE Tom...

 

author of Logic's Latency Toolbox?

 

If so, thank you for such a comprehensive treatment of the subject.

 

Congratulations on a job well done!

 

If you're not THE Tom, uhmm...nevermind

Tom...

 

THE Tom...

 

author of Logic's Latency Toolbox?

 

If so, thank you for such a comprehensive treatment of the subject.

 

Congratulations on a job well done!

 

If you're not THE Tom, uhmm...nevermind

 

OMG...

 

Nosebagger is THE Tom! Loved the Latency Toolbox tutorial!

 

Glad to have you here (even before your tutorial came out)!

 

 

J.

Thanks redlogic and jordito. I'm pleased to hear you liked the tutorial.

 

(THE) Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your help on this.

I am a little confused as to where to find the 'as additional tracks' option It doesn't appear in my bounce-in-place menu. I'm bouncing separate outputs of guru,(so I don't want to turn off ADC for AUX tracks) & I want to keep my balance (so I don't want to uncheck volume) When I use BIP its late, If I use master fader bounce its ok.

 

thanks again!!

Hi davpet,

 

Sorry for the slow response. The As Additional Tracks option is only available if you choose Bounce Track in Place (from the Track menu) as opposed to Bounce Region in Place from the Region menu.

 

Also, I've done a bit more digging around this problem, and have summarised what I've found, below:

 

If you're having trouble with Bounce in Place (BIP) being out of sync when Plug-in Latency Compensation (PLC) is set to All, in most cases, any of these methods should work:

 

Method A: If you don't need to render volume and pan information, simply uncheck Include Volume/Pan Automation and perform the BIP. Any volume and pan automation or positions will be automatically copied to the new track.

 

Method B: Temporarily set PLC to Audio and Software Instruments, perform the BIP, set PLC back to All.

 

Method C: Assign the output of the Audio or Software Instrument channel strip that you are bouncing to a spare bus/aux channel (if using a multi-out instrument, assign the output of its auxes to this bus/aux too), then perform the BIP.

 

Method D: If you are only wanting to bounce to a stereo file, select all regions on the track and select Bounce Region in Place (instead of Bounce Track in Place).

 

If, however, you are bouncing a multi-output Software Instrument and have latency-causing plug-ins inserted on any of its aux channels, the only solution that works is:

 

Method E: Temporarily set PLC to Audio and Software Instrument Tracks. (This will cause the instrument's outputs to play back out of sync, but will allow you to bounce them in sync.) Select the Bounce Track in Place command and, in the ensuing dialogue box, ensure that both As Additional Tracks and Bypass Effect Plug-ins are checked, then press OK.

 

This will render all the Instrument's outputs, in sync, to separate audio tracks containing all the plug-ins from their corresponding Instrument output. If you want the plug-ins to be actually rendered into each file: make sure PLC is still set to Audio and Software Instruments, and then re-bounce each track in place with Bypass Effect Plug-ins unchecked. (To help keep things tidy, you may also want to check the Replace Track option.)

 

Alternatively, if you want the tracks rendered to a single stereo file: select all the regions and render them by using the Bounce Region in Place command, this time making sure that Bypass Effect Plug-ins is unchecked.

 

Once you're done, don't forget to set PLC back to All.

 

Hope that helps to keep your Bounce In Places, in place!

 

Tom

Hi davpet,

 

Sorry for the slow response. The As Additional Tracks option is only available if you choose Bounce Track in Place (from the Track menu) as opposed to Bounce Region in Place from the Region menu.

 

Also, I've done a bit more digging around this problem, and have summarised what I've found, below:

 

If you're having trouble with Bounce in Place (BIP) being out of sync when Plug-in Latency Compensation (PLC) is set to All, in most cases, any of these methods should work:

 

Method A: If you don't need to render volume and pan information, simply uncheck Include Volume/Pan Automation and perform the BIP. Any volume and pan automation or positions will be automatically copied to the new track.

 

Method B: Temporarily set PLC to Audio and Software Instruments, perform the BIP, set PLC back to All.

 

Method C: Assign the output of the Audio or Software Instrument channel strip that you are bouncing to a spare bus/aux channel (if using a multi-out instrument, assign the output of its auxes to this bus/aux too), then perform the BIP.

 

Method D: If you are only wanting to bounce to a stereo file, select all regions on the track and select Bounce Region in Place (instead of Bounce Track in Place).

 

If, however, you are bouncing a multi-output Software Instrument and have latency-causing plug-ins inserted on any of its aux channels, the only solution that works is:

 

Method E: Temporarily set PLC to Audio and Software Instrument Tracks. (This will cause the instrument's outputs to play back out of sync, but will allow you to bounce them in sync.) Select the Bounce Track in Place command and, in the ensuing dialogue box, ensure that both As Additional Tracks and Bypass Effect Plug-ins are checked, then press OK.

 

This will render all the Instrument's outputs, in sync, to separate audio tracks containing all the plug-ins from their corresponding Instrument output. If you want the plug-ins to be actually rendered into each file: make sure PLC is still set to Audio and Software Instruments, and then re-bounce each track in place with Bypass Effect Plug-ins unchecked. (To help keep things tidy, you may also want to check the Replace Track option.)

 

Alternatively, if you want the tracks rendered to a single stereo file: select all the regions and render them by using the Bounce Region in Place command, this time making sure that Bypass Effect Plug-ins is unchecked.

 

Once you're done, don't forget to set PLC back to All.

 

Hope that helps to keep your Bounce In Places, in place!

 

Tom

Dood...

 

You are a Serious Latency Jedi

Many many thanks for this in depth analysis.

 

Sadly i have just tried all of the above fixes and it has not resolved my issues.

 

I think my issue may relate specifically to Kontakt.

As stated above when i use the BTP function regardless of all these fixes, i end up with a Bit of Latency in the new waveform....\

 

Its driving me Bonkers.

 

It fine when have a clear note on beat one of a track, i can just realign by eye, but this doesn't work for less obvious notes....

 

Please any help !!!

Not sure if this helps but its what i'm dealing with

That is a MOST useful time saver Tom, thanks a bunch! I wonder, should this behavior be reported to the Logic Dev. as a bug to be fixed, not?

Many many thanks for this in depth analysis.

 

Sadly i have just tried all of the above fixes and it has not resolved my issues.

 

I think my issue may relate specifically to Kontakt.

 

Hi Slipperz

 

Ok, just a wild shot here.. if I look at your screenshot, I realize that you use Kontakt's memory server, which makes me wonder what Version you are at. Since V4 there is no need for this anymore when you start logic in 64 bit, not sure if this is related though.... but it could theoretically induce latency which is not compensated.

Thanks for the suggestion oceanview ,

 

Sadly i have just tried this and it hasn't made any difference.

I'm amazed that more people have not come across this problem.

 

It's quite a major bummer.

Wondering if it's just since the latest Logic update or if i have been bouncing tracks with a touch of latency for a while with out picking up on it!

 

As with all these things it opens a bit of a pandoras box of problems.

 

Yikes... Lets hope i can sort it!!

Well, to be honest, if all the suggestions, even those from an expert like Tom did not help, I would suggest this way:

 

Native Instruments EU

 

Technical Support (registered users only)

Tel: +49.30.61 10 35-1400

Fax: +49.30.61 10 35-2400

Support is available from 11 - 17:00 CET (Monday to Friday)

 

Native Instruments USA

 

Tel.: +1.323.467 2693

Hours of Business

Monday – Friday 11:00 – 5:00 pm PST

So I finally got to the bottom of my issues.

 

I now realize that the Latency during bounce is created by the Master EFX on the instrument inside the Kontakt page.

 

Ie- Convolution reverb etc.

It's strange that the PlugIn Latency Compensation within Logic doesn't seem to like this correction, but at least i now know to Bounce all tracks from KontaKt clean with no EFX and then use alternative effects within Logic.

 

This is not so bad as i have most Verbs etc covered with 3rd party plugs.

 

Many thanks for the input from you guys.

Cheers, Louis

Good to know you solved the problem!

 

Cheers,

 

J.

Thanks all very helpful thought process!!

 

For me similar issues except all bounces were out of time!!

 

BIP and realtime Bounce.

 

I've noticed over the years this happened sometimes and now understand Logic Delay Compensation can only handle so much going on before bounce goes out of time..

 

I would find my Access Virus TI (as Virus Control) would sometimes bounce randomly out of time, say within 1000 samples early to late. This seemed to be happening again in 9.1.5 Lion..

 

I have just turned off basically everything else except the one instrument I need to bounce and the Virus is back on time.

 

Interestingly even with an Empty Project if I bounce audio, invert polarity of audio, play together with software synth (Using NI Massive) it does not cancel. If playing looped the first real part of the loop has some cancelation but the looped parts don't cancel at all. If I bounce another copy of the audio I can get the bounces to cancel. So Massive must always be playing slightly out of time!! Always wondered why everything sounds tighter once bounced to audio...

 

Thanks again for the above thought processes, long work arounds but by super complex songs will be in time now!!

 

Cheers

 

Hugo

Hi davpet,

 

Sorry for the slow response. The As Additional Tracks option is only available if you choose Bounce Track in Place (from the Track menu) as opposed to Bounce Region in Place from the Region menu.

 

Also, I've done a bit more digging around this problem, and have summarised what I've found, below:

 

If you're having trouble with Bounce in Place (BIP) being out of sync when Plug-in Latency Compensation (PLC) is set to All, in most cases, any of these methods should work:

 

Method A: If you don't need to render volume and pan information, simply uncheck Include Volume/Pan Automation and perform the BIP. Any volume and pan automation or positions will be automatically copied to the new track.

 

Method B: Temporarily set PLC to Audio and Software Instruments, perform the BIP, set PLC back to All.

 

Method C: Assign the output of the Audio or Software Instrument channel strip that you are bouncing to a spare bus/aux channel (if using a multi-out instrument, assign the output of its auxes to this bus/aux too), then perform the BIP.

 

Method D: If you are only wanting to bounce to a stereo file, select all regions on the track and select Bounce Region in Place (instead of Bounce Track in Place).

 

If, however, you are bouncing a multi-output Software Instrument and have latency-causing plug-ins inserted on any of its aux channels, the only solution that works is:

 

Method E: Temporarily set PLC to Audio and Software Instrument Tracks. (This will cause the instrument's outputs to play back out of sync, but will allow you to bounce them in sync.) Select the Bounce Track in Place command and, in the ensuing dialogue box, ensure that both As Additional Tracks and Bypass Effect Plug-ins are checked, then press OK.

 

This will render all the Instrument's outputs, in sync, to separate audio tracks containing all the plug-ins from their corresponding Instrument output. If you want the plug-ins to be actually rendered into each file: make sure PLC is still set to Audio and Software Instruments, and then re-bounce each track in place with Bypass Effect Plug-ins unchecked. (To help keep things tidy, you may also want to check the Replace Track option.)

 

Alternatively, if you want the tracks rendered to a single stereo file: select all the regions and render them by using the Bounce Region in Place command, this time making sure that Bypass Effect Plug-ins is unchecked.

 

Once you're done, don't forget to set PLC back to All.

 

Hope that helps to keep your Bounce In Places, in place!

 

Tom

Dood...

 

You are a Serious Latency Jedi

 

WOW thanks my friend Thats just what I needed too... you saved me a ton of time!