Mod Wheel RBA not chasing

Mystery solved!

 

Thanks Eric!

 

I hadn't thought of the MIDI channel in the Event List having any affect on the issue since in the Inspector the MIDI Channel is set to All.

 

My original file had the events on Channel 16 which was the factory set default channel on my Axiom 61 when I bought it. The test project that I posted is a region from an early project that I made before I set my Axiom to transmit on Channel 1.

 

You are a sneaky devil.

 

Thanks again Eric!

You're very welcome Scott and I'm really glad that you've got it solved.

Still it's not the desired behavior. Specially if you're using program changes or different controllers at the same time for composing

Wonder why it chases fine for you, but late for me?

Maybe a Logic 8 thing? Eric and I are both on Logic 9.

Also, interesting.

I can't figure this but on your project the region has no MIDI notes yet it sounds.

No notes in the region on the Arrange (even zoomed in), no notes in the Piano Roll and no note events in the Event List (only modulation events).

Wonder why it chases fine for you, but late for me?

 

Maybe a Logic 8 thing? Eric and I are both on Logic 9.

 

Also, interesting.

 

I can't figure this but on your project the region has no MIDI notes yet it sounds.

 

No notes in the region on the Arrange (even zoomed in), no notes in the Piano Roll and no note events in the Event List (only modulation events).

It's 2 overlapped regions.

I can't figure this but on your project the region has no MIDI notes yet it sounds.

 

No notes in the region on the Arrange (even zoomed in), no notes in the Piano Roll and no note events in the Event List (only modulation events).

I'm obviously in a sneaky mood too!

It's two regions, one with notes and one with mod wheel RBA. Look under the mod wheel region and you'll see the notes.

Merging the regions makes no difference to how it chases for me.

So, just to clarify, if you put the playhead at the beginning of bar 3, does the first note sound the same as if you play from bar 2?

It's 2 overlapped regions.

Now why didn't I think of that?

This guy's got nothing on you Eric "Holmes" Bradley.

Merging the regions makes no difference to how it chases for me.

In my test project that I posted I merged the regions. In my original song I left the regions un-merged. Works the same either way now that I changed the Mod Wheel events to Channel 1.

So, just to clarify, if you put the playhead at the beginning of bar 3, does the first note sound the same as if you play from bar 2?

I think I figured out your problem.

Your legato is spilling onto your staccato.

Your first Mod Wheel event is before the ending of your first note.

Merge the regions and look at where your MW event is in relation to the length of your first note.

Your legato is spilling onto your staccato.

Sounds messy.

But I don't think that should affect things, and for fast articulation-switching passages it's the only way to play them in. It all sounds fine when played from the beginning.

I tried shortening the first legato note. Made no difference. Plus, Eric said that he had no problems when playing it. Do you hear the first staccato note as legato?

I tried shortening the first legato note. Made no difference. Plus, Eric said that he had no problems when playing it. Do you hear the first staccato note as legato?

In this case, note length does not make a difference. It is where your Mod Wheel events are. I changed the MW event for your first event at bar 3. Try it now.

RBSChase.zip

No dice I'm afraid.

If I start playback from between the RBA node at bar 3, and the first staccato note, the first note still plays as legato.

Not sure why you thought moving the mod wheel node would make a difference?

If I start playback from between the RBA node at bar 3, and the first staccato note, the first note still plays as legato.

Really? It works here fine.

Also, I noticed that you do not have Notes checked in the Chase settings. You need to check that.

[Edit] Forgot to add attachment. Here it is.

Not sure why you thought moving the mod wheel node would make a difference?

I didn't only move the Mod Wheel event I deleted several other MW events that you have in there. For what you're doing, you should only have one MW event before each change from L to S. Your region has multiple MW events which is probably part of the problem. This is why the Event List is so useful in tracking down and fixing this kind of issue.

I didn't only move the Mod Wheel event I deleted several other MW events that you have in there. For what you're doing, you should only have one MW event before each change from L to S. Your region has multiple MW events which is probably part of the problem. This is why the Event List is so useful in tracking down and fixing this kind of issue.

Yeah, but as long as the correct value is there, it shouldn't matter how many events are going on, surely? It would be a big groove-killer to have to edit any mod wheel playing as soon as I've recorded it.

Note chase made no difference to the behaviour, that first staccato note is still playing legato. But, turning note chase on will make working with sustained notes a happier experience for me, thanks for that.

Still, this a minor problem, but a bit of a puzzle. Maybe someone who's still got Logic 8 can have a look sometime.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this Scott.

It's 2 overlapped regions.

 

Now why didn't I think of that?

 

This guy's got nothing on you Eric "Holmes" Bradley.

Elementary my dear Jackson.

So, just to clarify, if you put the playhead at the beginning of bar 3, does the first note sound the same as if you play from bar 2?

I see what you mean and I can confirm the same behavior that you are experiencing.

Logic seems to need a little time to chase properly. I think it's dependent of the Process Buffer Range.

Small ≈ 174 ms

Medium ≈ 187.5 ms

Large ≈ 375 ms

Try this:

1. Move the note that is at the third measure to the second sixteenth of that measure.
   Visual Guide
   
2. Make sure that the Process Buffer Range, PBR is set to Medium.
   
3. Set the tempo to 80 BPM and play from bar 3 and it should catch. Set it to 81 and it looses the first staccato.
   
4. A Small PBR will let you have a tempo of 86 BPM*. A Large PBR a tempo of 40.

* As long as you don't set your I/O buffer size below 1024

Yeah, but as long as the correct value is there, it shouldn't matter how many events are going on, surely? It would be a big groove-killer to have to edit any mod wheel playing as soon as I've recorded it.Thanks for taking the time to look at this Scott.

I don't know about that for sure. Remember the Mod Wheel is not an on/off switch. It's like a slider so there is a gradual change as opposed to a definite on/off switch. With MIDI Chase Logic may be confusing the information, however, this is just a theory. I suppose we could assume that the last value that Logic reads is the value that it will use but with Chase, I'm not sure. I hope David will be able to give us some insight on that.

Still, very strange that Eric was able to make your project Chase without alteration and I was able to make it Chase fine once I made my changes (I was getting your issue before I changed the events in the Event List) yet you are still having the very same issue.

Maybe someone who's still got Logic 8 can have a look sometime.

I still have 8 on my machine. I'll open your project in there and see if the results are any different.

Thanks for taking the time to look at this Scott.

You're welcome.

I see what you mean and I can confirm the same behavior that you are experiencing.

Logic seems to need a little time to chase properly. I think it's dependent of the Process Buffer Range.

Ah, ok. Yes, this is exactly the same behaviour I'm experiencing.

I think you've got to the nub of the problem. Thanks

Well, between Eric and myself as for process buffer range, and Scott's midi channel anomaly, I'd call this solved. But it's odd that Scott is not getting the same behaviour in regard to chasing... What's your process buffer range set to Scott?

So, just to clarify, if you put the playhead at the beginning of bar 3, does the first note sound the same as if you play from bar 2?

 

I think I figured out your problem.

 

Your legato is spilling onto your staccato.

 

Your first Mod Wheel event is before the ending of your first note.

 

Merge the regions and look at where your MW event is in relation to the length of your first note.

No it's not that.

Try setting the playhead one sixteenth note before the second staccato note and play.

It will sound legato.

Well, between Eric and myself as for process buffer range, and Scott's midi channel anomaly, I'd call this solved. But it's odd that Scott is not getting the same behaviour in regard to chasing... What's your process buffer range set to Scott?

I just completed testing your original project file and the one I altered and I do get the same result as you and Eric if I start the playhead just after Bar 3 (after the first note on message) in both Logic 8 and 9. If I start at exactly Bar 3 it does not Chase properly on your original file but on my altered file it does Chase properly if started at Bar 3.

Buffer 256

Buffer 256

What about Process Buffer Range?

No it's not that.

Try setting the playhead one sixteenth note before the second staccato note and play.

It will sound legato.

You are sneaky today.

Buffer 256

 

What about Process Buffer Range?

Sorry, Process Buffer Range is set to Medium.

I had a look at this and with process buffer set to medium, I was able to get the note to play properly when started at bar three but only if I reduced tempo to 47 bpm! At 48 bpm, the first note would be legato. (The dividing line was actually 47.5.) And my I/O buffer size seemed to make no difference - this worked the same at 128 as at 1024. Definitely a curiosity!

EDIT: Just tried changing Process Buffer to the small setting and I could up my tempo to 50 bpm and still have the staccato note play properly.

Scott, Rev, if one of your or even both of you want to upload a project where this does not work to this thread, I'll look at it.

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?p=425040#p425040

Oops, missed that. Ok so I tested this here and it works as expected, chasing the mod wheel data just fine.

Scott! I downloaded yours too and it does not chase.

I nailed it down to the MIDI channel. (...)

 

I changed the MIDI channel to #1 and it works beautifully.

Same behavior here. That MIDI channel issue is something we had already touched on a while ago:

Logic 9.1.5 not chasing midi automation (the part where I start talking about MIDI channels is at viewtopic.php?p=391067#p391067)

I had a look at this and with process buffer set to medium, I was able to get the note to play properly when started at bar three but only if I reduced tempo to 47 bpm! At 48 bpm, the first note would be legato. (The dividing line was actually 47.5.) And my I/O buffer size seemed to make no difference - this worked the same at 128 as at 1024. Definitely a curiosity!

 

EDIT: Just tried changing Process Buffer to the small setting and I could up my tempo to 50 bpm and still have the staccato note play properly.

You forgot step one... I moved the note to the second sixteenth.

You forgot step one... I moved the note to the second sixteenth.

Not sure what you mean here..... do mean note or "node"??

Hmmmm, just tried the node moving and even though it's now after the start of the note, that works. But that seems to work no matter what my process buffer or I/O buffer settings are.

Not sure what you mean here..... do mean note or "node"??

 

Hmmmm, just tried the node moving and even though it's now after the start of the note, that works. But that seems to work no matter what my process buffer or I/O buffer settings are.

I mean note.

http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=425172#p425172

I did that so I could measure the time needed in milliseconds without adding ticks to the equation.