How to Send realtime MIDI CC data out of VI's (IAC bus?)

Hello everyone! (Awesome community here btw..)

Im in need of some help/advice..

Does anybody know if it is possible to send 'Realtime' Midi CC data out of a Virtual Instrument used in Logic and out of my MIDI port?

EG: Turning the Cutoff knob in EXS24 and sending the cc data out of my Midi interface port?

Im hoping there is a way to somehow achieve this using the IAC Bus and virtual cabling somehow to my Unitor 8 midi interface located in the Audio Midi Setup section in OSX.. Or am i dreaming?

Really appreciate any help.

Thankyou

Just bumping this one back up in case anybody here missed it (who may know the answer to this).

Thanks

Hello,

Does anybody know if it is possible to send 'Realtime' Midi CC data out of a Virtual Instrument used in Logic and out of my MIDI port?

 

EG: Turning the Cutoff knob in EXS24 and sending the cc data out of my Midi interface port?

The EXS24's cutoff knob does not send CC data. It sends a similar type of data which is unique to Logic: Fader events. You can however convert these to CC events and have them go out any virtual or hardware ports in your system.

Im hoping there is a way to somehow achieve this using the IAC Bus and virtual cabling somehow to my Unitor 8 midi interface located in the Audio Midi Setup section in OSX.. Or am i dreaming?

You don't need to use IAC for this. You can output the converted events via one of your Unitor 8's ports.

Here's an example:

J.

Hello Jordi Torres!

Firstly, i would like to express how happy i am that you replied and give you a huuuge THANKYOU!

You have been VERY helpful and i appreciate your help my friend.

There is no way i could have worked that out myself! LOL (setting up a transformer in the environment..)

I have just bought Logic again and using it after many years ago from Logic 5 days..

I tried doing what you showed me and it really does work!

Now after what you have taught me about Logic using Fader Events, i am curious to know a few more things about all of this. If you dont mind helping me further with your knowledge of this program that is..

Here is the setup i am trying to achieve to give you a better idea why i am asking this stuff.

I'm using Logic Pro X JUST for its sound production (Virtual Instruments) and i am sequencing these with an EXTERNAL sequencer (Akai MPC).

This is the reason why i am trying to send these knob movements out, so i can record this automation to my external sequencer. I will be buying a midi controller (which sends ONLY CC's ?? ) with lots of knobs to try and control Logics VI parameters and send these to my external sequencer to be recorded. When i press play on my MPC, my goal is to play it back just how i recorded the knob movements.

So my questions are these:

1) Will it be possible to convert the CC Data (my midi controller will send) to Fader Events in order to control the VI's in logic and then using the Transformer to convert the Fader Events back to CC's in order to send to my external sequencer? All at the same time? Will there be latency with all these conversions?

2) When i moved the cuttoff knob in the EXS24 it sent out the data out of my midi port, but the other controls (Envelope ADSR's, LFO's, Tune etc) did not send out anything. Why is this? Does it have to do with the settings in the transformer?

3) In the screenshot you posted, on the right hand side you have another window open which shows your midi output options. Is that window from Audio Midi Settings in OSX?

Thankyou again Jordi i really appreciate your help.

Smoke

This is the reason why i am trying to send these knob movements out, so i can record this automation to my external sequencer. I will be buying a midi controller (which sends ONLY CC's ?? ) with lots of knobs to try and control Logics VI parameters and send these to my external sequencer to be recorded. When i press play on my MPC, my goal is to play it back just how i recorded the knob movements.

Not sure why you want the data sent back to the MPC. I think it would be easier to simply assign knobs on that MIDI controller you're planning on getting to parameters on the virtual instruments and record the changes as track automation....in Logic.

So my questions are these:

1) Will it be possible to convert the CC Data (my midi controller will send) to Fader Events in order to control the VI's in logic and then using the Transformer to convert the Fader Events back to CC's in order to send to my external sequencer? All at the same time? Will there be latency with all these conversions?

Again, you don't need to do it this way. Since you want to control the VI's with a controller, there's no need to send the data back to the MPC.

2) When i moved the cuttoff knob in the EXS24 it sent out the data out of my midi port, but the other controls (Envelope ADSR's, LFO's, Tune etc) did not send out anything. Why is this? Does it have to do with the settings in the transformer?

Yes, it has to do with the way I set the transformer. The transformer's set to "Apply operation and filter non-matching events", so anything that doesn't match the condition (Fader 2 25) will not pass through.

3) In the screenshot you posted, on the right hand side you have another window open which shows your midi output options. Is that window from Audio Midi Settings in OSX?

That's just a MIDI Monitor. It's free:

http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/

J.

Hi Jordi

Not sure why you want the data sent back to the MPC. I think it would be easier to simply assign knobs on that MIDI controller you're planning on getting to parameters on the virtual instruments and record the changes as track automation....in Logic.

I would love to be able to record as track automation in Logic, but it simply is not possible if i am not using Logic's sequencer at all.

Only when you press "Play" in logic, the automation data will start working.

In my case, Logic is just acting as a Sound Module and Mixer. My master sequencer (MPC) is running the show (Playing back the VI's).

(** i know you probably think this is stupid/crazy/a waste of a program, but for me PERSONALLY, using a machine like the MPC to lay down/sequence tracks feels better**)

So my questions are these:

1) Will it be possible to convert the CC Data (my midi controller will send) to Fader Events in order to control the VI's in logic and then using the Transformer to convert the Fader Events back to CC's in order to send to my external sequencer? All at the same time? Will there be latency with all these conversions?

Again, you don't need to do it this way. Since you want to control the VI's with a controller, there's no need to send the data back to the MPC.

As i mentioned above, the MPC will be the master sequencer (Logic not in 'play' mode, therefore cant use logic automation) .

So it is very important that i can somehow record these knob movements (automation) into the MPC, in order for me to be able to play back the MPC with all these knob changes in tact throughout the song.

I think i am half way there though! My only main problem is this:

- How do i "Transform" the CC's (coming out of my MPC) back into "Fader Events" to control Logics Vi's ??

2) When i moved the cuttoff knob in the EXS24 it sent out the data out of my midi port, but the other controls (Envelope ADSR's, LFO's, Tune etc) did not send out anything. Why is this? Does it have to do with the settings in the transformer?

Yes, it has to do with the way I set the transformer. The transformer's set to "Apply operation and filter non-matching events", so anything that doesn't match the condition (Fader 2 25) will not pass through.

Ahh ok. i think i understand it better.. Maybe i will look for an option with no filter in order to transform ALL the fader events. I will try and read the Logic Documentation on it more.

How did you know that Fader 2 25 corresponds with the Cuttoff knob though??

That's just a MIDI Monitor. It's free:

http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/

Oh very nice. Thankyou! And for all your help too.

Smoke

OK, I see. I don't think you can record CC's on the MPC (at least not in the one I'm familar with) and then output those to Logic.

So before we continue, can you please add the required info to your signature (including which MPC you're using)?:

Click this link to your signature and add your system information:

• Logic version and sub-version (e.g. Logic 10.0.5)

• OS X version and sub-version (e.g. OS 10.9.1)

• Computer (e.g. MacBook, Mac Pro, iMac)

• Processor (e.g. 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo)

• Memory (e.g. 2GB)

• Audio interface manufacturer and model (e.g. Presonus AudioBox USB)

• MIDI Controller manufacturer and model (e.g. M-Audio Axiom Pro 49)

(most of that information can be found by choosing Logic Pro X > About Logic Pro X, and  > About This Mac)

Thanks.

J.

My only main problem is this: - How do i "Transform" the CC's (coming out of my MPC) back into "Fader Events" to control Logics Vi's ??

You don't need to convert CC's to fader events to control Logic's VI's. It can be done with regular CC's.

How did you know that Fader 2 25 corresponds with the Cuttoff knob though??

Connected a monitor object to the channel strip hosting the EXS24 and moved the cutoff knob.

J.

OK, I see. I don't think you can record CC's on the MPC (at least not in the one I'm familar with) and then output those to Logic.

So before we continue, can you please add the required info to your signature (including which MPC you're using)?

Ok i just added my signature now.

Re: the MPC. My one records it fine, i tried sending the transformed events out to the MPC and it recorded them no problem. (Im pretty sure all the MPCs do it though, otherwise they wouldnt make for very good sequencers when recording hardware synth tweaks into them with midi)

You don't need to convert CC's to fader events to control Logic's VI's. It can be done with regular CC's.

Very interesting. Sorry but im very new to setting up controllers with software.

Just briefly, how is it done? Which menu/screen in logic can you access this capability?

Will the VI respond to CC's sent from my mpc too, OR will it only respond to the Midi Controller sending the CCs?

This is sounding promising... :>

Connected a monitor object to the channel strip hosting the EXS24 and moved the cutoff knob.

Thanks

Smoke

Re: the MPC. My one records it fine, i tried sending the transformed events out to the MPC and it recorded them no problem. (Im pretty sure all the MPCs do it though, otherwise they wouldnt make for very good sequencers when recording hardware synth tweaks into them with midi)

OK cool.

Very interesting. Sorry but im very new to setting up controllers with software.

Just briefly, how is it done? Which menu/screen in logic can you access this capability?

Will the VI respond to CC's sent from my mpc too, OR will it only respond to the Midi Controller sending the CCs?

This is sounding promising... :>

Just use Logic's MIDI Learn mode. If you make the assignments using CC's sent from the MIDI controller, the VI's will respond to CC's coming from the MIDI controller (not the MPC).

Read this:

Quick Guide to using a MIDI controller with Logic

J.

PS: thanks for adding the info to your signature

Will the VI respond to CC's sent from my mpc too, OR will it only respond to the Midi Controller sending the CCs?

This is sounding promising... :>

If your MPC passes the MIDI data it receives at its input through its output, you could connect your keyboard directly to the MPC and make the assignments that way. Logic would learn the assignments with the data coming from the MPC (even if the data is originally coming from the keyboard). The VI's will also respond to the CC's you've recorded in the MPC (as long as these CC's are sent out from the MPC on playback).

J.

Firstly, thanks for the Link to the post on assigning controllers. WOW! I didnt think it would be so easy to setup, i thought it would be much more tedious than that!

If your MPC passes the MIDI data it receives at its input through its output, you could connect your keyboard directly to the MPC and make the assignments that way. Logic would learn the assignments with the data coming from the MPC (even if the data is originally coming from the keyboard). The VI's will also respond to the CC's you've recorded in the MPC (as long as these CC's are sent out from the MPC on playback).

Now that there will be no need to be "transforming" CC data to Fader Events (and vice versa), things are looking MUCH more simpler to pull off now! :>:>

You see, i would love to do what you said (above) and plug the Midi controller straight into the MPC and do it that way, but there is a simple problem.. The Midi Controller i want to buy, only sends MIDI out of a USB connection (no physical midi output port) which my MPC will not accept, only Midi cables.

So! Correct me if i am wrong but the simple solution to this would be to:

1) Plug this midi controller into my mac via USB and "Learn" Logic's VI's with the Controller's assignments

2) Somehow, assign the Midi Controller to send to one of my Unitor 8's Midi Out port which will be connected to my MPC.. (This way, all those CC's i transmit will ALSO be sent out to my MPC )

3) When i play back my MPC, its going to play the VI's just how i tweaked the knobs on that Midi controller.

Do you see any problem with me achieving # 2?? (it should be possible to do that in the Environment right?)

If this is all possible, then my question/objective is all solved thanks to you .

Thanks

Smoke

You see, i would love to do what you said (above) and plug the Midi controller straight into the MPC and do it that way, but there is a simple problem.. The Midi Controller i want to buy, only sends MIDI out of a USB connection (no physical midi output port) which my MPC will not accept, only Midi cables.

Strange. You intend to use your MPC as your sequencer yet you want buy a MIDI controller that only has a USB port? In your situation I would buy something with both 5pin DIN connectors and USB. It only makes sense.

So! Correct me if i am wrong but the simple solution to this would be to:

1) Plug this midi controller into my mac via USB and "Learn" Logic's VI's with the Controller's assignments

2) Somehow, assign the Midi Controller to send to one of my Unitor 8's Midi Out port which will be connected to my MPC.. (This way, all those CC's i transmit will ALSO be sent out to my MPC )

3) When i play back my MPC, its going to play the VI's just how i tweaked the knobs on that Midi controller.

 

Do you see any problem with me achieving # 2?? (it should be possible to do that in the Environment right?)

If this is all possible, then my question/objective is all solved thanks to you .

No, that won't work. Once you make the assignments with the Launch Control, the VI's will only respond to messages coming from the Launch Control.

A workaround would be to hijack the Launch Control's port using Midipipe (freeware) so that Logic doesn't even see it, then route the Launch Control's data out of Midipipe via one of Unitor's output ports so that it reaches the MPC. The data would then go through the MPC and back to Logic via one of the Unitor's input ports. You would make the assignments with this data (data coming in from that Unitor port).

J.

Strange. You intend to use your MPC as your sequencer yet you want buy a MIDI controller that only has a USB port? In your situation I would buy something with both 5pin DIN connectors and USB. It only makes sense.

Sorry Jordi, to clarify things more. I already do have an 88 note Midi keyboard connected to my MPC via MIDI.

The midi controller i am talking about getting (Novation Launch Control) has 16 knobs on it and no keys. This is the controller i would like to use to control my VI's parameters..

(Now that i think of it, i actually would prefer it to be connected to my mac directly via USB, because that way, if i am just having a synth programming day - i wont need to turn on the MPC in order to use it )

No, that won't work. Once you make the assignments with the Launch Control, the VI's will only respond to messages coming from the Launch Control.

Damn.. I wasn't expecting you to say that..

If i can kindly ask, what is the reason for this?

Is it not possible to have TWO seperate Controllers sending data on one VI ??

A workaround would be to hijack the Launch Control's port using Midipipe (freeware) so that Logic doesn't even see it, then route the Launch Control's data out of Midipipe via one of Unitor's output ports so that it reaches the MPC. The data would then go through the MPC and back to Logic via one of the Unitor's input ports. You would make the assignments with this data (data coming in from that Unitor port).

Very interesting and good lateral thinking there.. (ps: nice vast swiss-army-type knowledge of different Apps! not bad.. lol)

While i dont mind using this solution as a last resort (if i HAVE to), i would prefer not to.

I am scared with all these connections that i might experience some midi latency and might slow it down.

Also how i mentioned above about not having to power up the MPC if having a synth programming day only.

Thankyou

Smoke

The midi controller i am talking about getting (Novation Launch Control) has 16 knobs on it and no keys. This is the controller i would like to use to control my VI's parameters..

Yes, I already knew that. My comment still stands. If you plan to work mostly through your MPC (with Logic as a sound module) a "knobby" MIDI controller with both 5pin DIN connectors plus USB would be a better choice.

If i can kindly ask, what is the reason for this?

Because that's the way controller assignments work in Logic. When you make an assignment not only the MIDI message is assigned. The MIDI port is also assign so if the same message comes from a different MIDI port nothing will happen. There are ways to work around that, (For example: viewtopic.php?t=73464) but it can become annoying after a while of doing it like that.

While i dont mind using this solution as a last resort (if i HAVE to), i would prefer not to.

I am scared with all these connections that i might experience some midi latency and might slow it down.

Also how i mentioned above about not having to power up the MPC if having a synth programming day only.

You're going to have to rely on workarounds either way if you incorporate a MIDI controller with no 5pin DIN connectors in your MPC-centric setup.

J.

Because that's the way controller assignments work in Logic. When you make an assignment not only the MIDI message is assigned. The MIDI port is also assign so if the same message comes from a different MIDI port nothing will happen. There are ways to work around that, (For example: viewtopic.php?t=73464) but it can become annoying after a while of doing it like that.

I see now.. Thanks for explaining that.

Hmm, i checked out the link but i think your right it might get annoying, and plus i dont want to overcomplicate things too much.

While i dont mind using this solution as a last resort (if i HAVE to), i would prefer not to.

I am scared with all these connections that i might experience some midi latency and might slow it down.

Also how i mentioned above about not having to power up the MPC if having a synth programming day only.

You're going to have to rely on workarounds either way if you incorporate a MIDI controller with no 5pin DIN connectors in your MPC-centric setup.

Hmm, i think your right.. Using a controller with a MIDI OUT port in my case will simplify things. However, its quite annoying when you are after a certain controller with certain minimum amount of knobs and no keys and the manufacturers only make it with a USB connection..

Because of this, i just may HAVE to upgrade my current 88 note controller to one with many knobs and keys and contain a midi out port.

Smoke

Hmm, i think your right.. Using a controller with a MIDI OUT port in my case will simplify things. However, its quite annoying when you are after a certain controller with certain minimum amount of knobs and no keys and the manufacturers only make it with a USB connection..

Because of this, i just may HAVE to upgrade my current 88 note controller to one with many knobs and keys and contain a midi out port.

Try the solution I proposed using Midipipe, I think it shouldn't add much latency. You could test it with your current keyboard if it has a USB port (which one is it? you don't mention it in your signature)

J.

Try the solution I proposed using Midipipe, I think it shouldn't add much latency. You could test it with your current keyboard if it has a USB port (which one is it? you don't mention it in your signature)

My current MIDI keyboard is a very old hammer action Technics SX-P30 (bought neally 20 years ago in 97/98 hahaha).. So no, it doesnt have USB unfortunately.. It may also be a good reason to upgrade one day soon, but i will miss it

Either way, you have provided me with LOTS of information about all this, and i now can make an educated decision on which route to take and how midi controllers work etc. Im looking forward to setting this up. So thank you VERY much for that.

Appreciate

Smoke