PLEASE HELP: MIDI Overlap Recording Isssues

Hi,

 

PLEASE HELP!!!

 

I've posted a few times and got few responses which surprises me since this issue is making 10.2.x unusable for me. I can't believe others are not having the same issues and screaming curse words like I am... Which leads me to wonder if I'm missing some basic Logic/MIDI recording principle. Which would be surprising as I've used Logic professionally and successfully for over 20 years. (Since version 2.5!!!)

 

Eric Cardenas suggested I explain my process and the problem so that others may help. I hope that happens. I will try and be as succinct as possible, but still, I apologize for the "War and Peace" length of this post.

 

I almost always record in cycle mode with the "Replace" (X) button engaged.

 

In Logic versions 2.5-10.0 ONLY the data INSIDE the cycled area would be wiped by the new recording. If there was overlap on either side of the cycled area, the region would be left intact, just overlapping. You could also punch in and out anywhere in a measure and only replace the area within the punches. This mimicked analogue recording with destructive punch in... only with the safety of Command Z.

 

Using this method, I kept the number of duplicate tracks down. I could generate new regions without destroying or unintentionally merging previous data. I could join or edit as needed.

 

With the new RECORD OVERLAP preferences, each have consequences that make it very cumbersome and has slowed my process tremendously. I have outlined them below.

 

PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN. Let me know how YOU record midi data. How you deal with overlapping regions when recording.

 

Here are the Record Preference settings and the problems each present for me. Which do you use???

 

Create Take Folder; Hides things and makes editing cumbersome

 

Merge Recording- If you get an overlap, it's merged. When the "Replace" button is checked, if the performance is not right on the FIRST TAKE, whatever the new Merged Region (from previously recorded region with new overlapping recording) will disappear FOREVER if you hit Command Z causing loss of recorded data. Also, there is never any data overwritten, so this just adds, never replaces, even with the "REPLACE" button engaged.

 

Merge Current Recording Only-You can't replace part of a region. You end up with two overlapping regions that play at the same time. Same as above... never replaces offending takes.

 

Create Tracks- While it doesn't delete data, you end up with multiple regions and tracks that clutters up your arrange page with multiple tracks and regions all over the place. Also, never replaces, only adds data.

 

Create Tracks and Mute- Doesn't perform as advertised. It creates tracks (and mess). My experience is that it keeps both takes, but mutes the NEW take.. which makes no sense to me at all. I would expect the opposite, mute the old and play the new.

 

Replace- Will wipe ANY overlapping information within the previously recorded measure. One tick off, and you wipe the previous or subsequent measure. If you play one tick before the downbeat, you'll lose the measure before the cycle. You can't get it back with Command Z, but you can drag the right side to restore the data. HOWEVER, any part of a subsequent region that has been wiped (and it wipes the whole subsequent measure if there is any recording within that measure) cannot be restored. This behavior happens even when using "Auto Punch" to define the punch in area.... so the Auto Punch define is essentially useless in actually defining an exact recording area.

 

On top of all this, as far as I can tell, there is no way to "Punch In" ala analogue recording without wiping a WHOLE MEASURE. If you punch in after the downbeat, the whole measure will be replaced regardless of where you punch in and out. In some modes, the punched in part won't even play until merged (with a command) with other regions. You can then Command Z and unmerge it... and it will play... Strange.

 

PLEASE HELP ME... This is driving me crazy. Please share your processes, how you use cycle, how you avoid wiping data with these new preferences.. I can't use 10.07 forever.

 

Thanks.

DanRad

Edited March 14, 2016 by DanRad

No one has any issues with this? Am I crazy?

 

Please enlighten. What mode of overlap recording do you use? Do you use cycle to record sections?

 

thanks

DanRad

Most of the time my Recording settings are set to Merge for both No Cycle and Cycle. I always use Autopunch. If I want to replace instead of merge I use a keyboard shortcut for Replace (same as clicking the button in the Control Bar); I don't change the Recording settings to Replace. Only time I do change them (which is rare) is to create Take Folders.

 

One tick off, and you wipe the previous or subsequent measure.... This behavior happens even when using "Auto Punch" to define the punch in area.... so the Auto Punch define is essentially useless in actually defining an exact recording area.

I don't experience this (if I understand you correctly). With Autopunch locators set and Replace turned on, when I press Record any region inside the Autopunch area is automatically snipped; notes that start in the previous region are kept (i.e. not split). Any notes I press when the Playhead is outside of the Autopunch are not recorded and don't interfere with the previous or subsequent region.

 

Currently using 10.2.0.

 

Hope that's clear.

Ninox, thanks for the response. I tried your settings. Do you not find that with Merge, if there is an data, either accidentally or on purpose recorded on the same track BEFORE the down beat of the cycle, it is automatically joined with the previous region? And then, if you use Command Z, the whole region (Including the previously recorded part that you wanted to keep) disappear? This, to me is a problem.

Please... need assistance

D

Ninox, thanks for the response. I tried your settings. Do you not find that with Merge, if there is an data, either accidentally or on purpose recorded on the same track BEFORE the down beat of the cycle, it is automatically joined with the previous region? And then, if you use Command Z, the whole region (Including the previously recorded part that you wanted to keep) disappear? This, to me is a problem.

No, because Autopunch is on which prevents recording notes outside of the Autopunch locators. Are you seeing something different?

 

I just tested with Autopunch off and intentionally recorded two passes before the cycle area. I'm not seeing it in this case either. I'm using a one bar count in. Screenshots:

 

1. First pass recorded as a new region. Pressed stop.

2. Pressed record. New notes are recorded and merged with the first region

3. Press Undo (Command Z). Notes in the second pass are deleted. The original region and notes are intact

 

Have you tried deleting prefs or logging in as a new user yet? I have no idea if pref corruption could cause it but wouldn't be surprised. Have seen so many glitches in LPX and I no longer trust it.

 

Sidenote:

On top of all this, as far as I can tell, there is no way to "Punch In" ala analogue recording without wiping a WHOLE MEASURE. If you punch in after the downbeat, the whole measure will be replaced regardless of where you punch in and out.

When Autopunch is off I do see this behaviour. Logic is rounding the recording to the nearest measure. BUT Undo restores the original region. Thankfully Autopunch works as expected so not an issue.

 

Thanks for your detailed response. In regard to merge.. You are right that if the "X" button in the transport is not checked, Command Z does work... but I usually want to replace subsequent data. Here are some screen shots of the situation.

This is using "replace" setting in overlap recording prefs.

Goal; Replace last two measures of region with new data. Have a pick up into the down beat. Let the regions overlap. See below

 

Outcome- I've looped the last two measures of the region in hopes of keeping the first two, and replacing the second two including a pick up. Unfortunately, having a pickup wipes the whole previous measure. See below;

 

I don't see why whole measures are wiped in this way, or when punching within a measure. I understand the auto punch idea, but that's extra steps I previously didn't need.

 

I suppose I'll find workarounds...but it seems very cumbersome. Do you always merge overlapping takes? That seems limiting.

 

Thanks again for your response.

 

DanRad

Not in front of Logic right now but I believe if you change your Drag mode from "No Overlap" to "Overlap" then it won't cut the region in front of your cycle area?

Not in front of Logic right now but I believe if you change your Drag mode from "No Overlap" to "Overlap" then it won't cut the region in front of your cycle area?

 

I wish... not so... This is very annoying behavior, especially if using controllers as moving the controller during the count in will wipe whatever is there.

The problem could be EASILY REMEDIED by including the choice "Overlap" in cycle recording. When in non-cycle mode, the Merge setting will not wipe the previous measure, but should you want to "replace" data, it won't do that either. I really think this is a step backwards in ease of use and productivity.

 

Thanks for the responses... but I'm still looking for a way to make Logic perform in a logically way. And shocked that other users aren't finding this a problem. In the old system, the Looped area ONLY would be replaced. Overlaps would be allowed and no data was accidentally lost. The data that might be written over was highlighted so you could see EXACTLY what was going to happen.

 

Harumph!!!

Set Overlapping Recordings > Cycle to Replace

Use Autopunch. There are a few key commands that may help i.e. set by cycle locators

Do not press the Replace (X) button

Ensure clip length for the existing region is unticked

 

I know setting the AP locators is an extra step but at least it's quick and the above should get you where you need to go.

 

In experimenting with this issue I've seen all the bugs you describe in your OP, inconsistencies with Undo and differences in the Replace behaviour between new projects and ones created in previous versions.

 

I feel your pain. The dev's are hard at work bloating LPX. Too many changes too quickly. I feel like a beta tester for LP11. When I open up LP9 I'm blown away by how responsive it is.

/rant

Thanks again for the detailed response.. what and where is this;

Ensure clip length for the existing region is unticked

 

Thanks

DanRad

It's in the region inspector.

Thanks... what exactly does Clip Length do?

Thanks... what exactly does Clip Length do?

 

 

When the original region gets cut by your Autopunch locators when you record, any notes in that region that overlap into the Autopunch area will still play for their entire length.

Well yr probably going to be disappointed because my workaround will stop notes accidentally played too early, but it's not going to help with recording a pickup (which I don't do). Placing the Auotpunch locators where you want the pickup to be (e.g. last beat of the preceding bar) will still result in the recorded region getting rounded to the start of that bar.

 

BTW I agree. The way it does this is definitely poor design or a bug. It has no advantage I can see.

 

 

To record a pickup the fastest workaround I can think of is:

 

1. Set your Cycle on the bar you want to replace

2. Right Click to Snip (I have my right click assigned to scissors) the original region where you want the pickup to start

3. Press Delete

4. Create new track with same instrument (Alt Cmnd Rtn)

5. Record

6. Drag select and then Merge the regions (Ctrl =)

7. Delete the extra track

Thanks for that... currently my system is; When a measure before is accidentally destroyed by Apple Inc. I drag the right corner to restore the lost data. Not terrible, but just and another step and an annoyance. That, or I make another track of the same object.

 

I use a lot of controllers, specifically Breath Controller and wheels... if I do ANYTHING in the previous measures (which is usually the "count in") with the controllers, bam... no more measure. So lame..

Thanks for that... currently my system is; When a measure before is accidentally destroyed by Apple Inc. I drag the right corner to restore the lost data. Not terrible, but just and another step and an annoyance. That, or I make another track of the same object.

 

I use a lot of controllers, specifically Breath Controller and wheels... if I do ANYTHING in the previous measures (which is usually the "count in") with the controllers, bam... no more measure. So lame..

 

Just in case I wasn't clear. Autopunch will solve this. However it won't solve recording pickups. I don't know how easy it is but I'd be inclined to try phoning Apple and ask if the changed behaviour is a bug or by design and not going to change.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

I'd be inclined to try phoning Apple

 

Got Tim Cook's number handy? Steve would never return my calls.