Problem automating audio instruments

Logic Pro X (and older versions) questions and troubleshooting

Problem automating audio instruments

Postby LukeDunn » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:15 pm

Here's what I'm trying to do....

I insert an ES E into a instrument track and open it up. I then hit record and move the filter knob on the GUI with my mouse. It looks like Logic is recording my movements as midi data but doesn't seem to work. I also tried assigning the filter to a midi controller using automation quick access and the same thing happened.

I CAN automate the filter with track automation, but what I'm trying to do is create a Hyper set for the ES E, and handle my filter and resonance automation with the Hyper Editor.

Am I wrong in thinking this is supposed to work?

Luke
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Re: Problem automating audio instruments

Postby fader8 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:15 am

LukeDunn wrote:I CAN automate the filter with track automation, but what I'm trying to do is create a Hyper set for the ES E, and handle my filter and resonance automation with the Hyper Editor.


Here's how I do that. There may be other methods.

Select your ES E track. Draw an empty region. Open its Event List. Open a Hyper Edit window.

The Hyper is probably just showing "MIDI Controls" with a Volume definition visible. If not, choose that set.

Here's the important "don't skip" step. Select the Volume definition. In the parameters, change the status from Control to Fader. Then change the Channel to "2" and check the Channel box.

Draw a ramp in the Vol definition, just enough to give you about 20 or so events to work with.

In the Event List, select the first event. In the Number column, grab the number and change it to 1. You should see that the Info now reads Wave. Change the next event to 2, Cutoff, and so on for all 14 events. Delete any extra events. You should have 14. (15 if you want number 0, the octave control).

Now, back in the Hyper Edit window, say some magic words, then choose Create Hyperset for Current Events. Boom. You'll see it fills in all the controls with their parameter names too!

Almost done. Select each new definition in turn and change its Channel in the parameters to "2" and check the Channel box.

Don't forget to name the new Hyperset.
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:03 am

Thanks fader8, I appreciate the help, worked like a charm.

I do have a couple questions for you though,

why does the 'status' need to be set to fader, and the channel to 2?

and also, is it possable to record the parameter movements on the plugin GUI as midi data?

Thanks again,

Luke
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:22 am

Ok... I think i figured out why the 'status' is set to two, let me know if I'm wrong.....

status 1 = channel strip
status 2 = instrument plugin
status 3 = plugin slot 1
status 4 = plugin slot 2
etc.....


Luke
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Postby fader8 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:20 am

Hey, no problem.

LukeDunn wrote:status 1 = channel strip
status 2 = instrument plugin
status 3 = plugin slot 1
status 4 = plugin slot 2
etc.....


Exactly. So if you're going to do this for effect plugins, you need a unique set depending on what slot it's in. Fortunately the Instrument object only has one instance slot!
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Postby fader8 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:27 am

Oh, the Fader message is simply an internal instruction for Logic. It's not MIDI actually, although you can sort of treat it like MIDI sometimes.

Remember you can use a fader object to transform MIDI cc to Fader message, or vice-versa, should you feel so inclined.
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:17 pm

Thank you very much.... all this opened up a whole new can of worms for me.

(and the Hyper editor is about to start pulling its own weight)

Luke
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:54 pm

One more question... if you don't mind.

the value only goes to 127... so what happens if the plugin has more than 127 parameters? I checked the other channels, and they seem to be only for the slots we talked about earlier. So is it 127 and that's it, or can you access the other parameters somewhere else?



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Postby fader8 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:31 pm

LukeDunn wrote:One more question... if you don't mind.


Of course not.

If you mean for example, Sculpture, then I haven't sussed the whole internal control scheme for it, but I haven't hit my head on it yet.

It's best to check things out by cabling a monitor object to the output node of your instrument channel object in the environment. When you move a plugs control, the Fader message will appear in the monitor. I've noticed with Sculpture, some controls don't produce messages at all. Sometimes changing the plugs GUI from Editor to Controls helps you try different things more easily.

When you're doing this kind of "behind-the-scenes" editing, not all things are guaranteed. Much like my tip on region based automation, . . .
http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=12873
. . . . it isn't going to always work for everything. But it can be a valuable tool in certain situations. Use at your own risk.

Like you said, it opens a can of worms. They might not all be good ones, so be careful!
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:03 pm

Cabling a monitor object is exactly what i need... thanks.

I'm pretty sure I can take out a worm or two (I hope), it's just a bit trickier when they're in a computer because you can't use your hammer. :wink:

Thanks again,

Luke
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:51 pm

I went through and made hyper sets of the Logic instruments and posted it here....

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=62407#62407

Incase you could make use of them.

thanks again for your help,

Luke
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Postby fader8 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:55 pm

You're welcome.

This kind of control over virtual instruments can really open the doors for new sound design. For example, you can create a single fader object that feeds multiple transformers so you can control or automate multiple parameters simultaneously on an instrument, scaled independently or even inverted too.

This is the good stuff that can really change the way your music sounds.
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Postby LukeDunn » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:01 pm

That's nuts!... I'm gonna have to get into that.

Luke
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Postby BGTD » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:08 pm

you can create a single fader object that feeds multiple transformers so you can control or automate multiple parameters simultaneously on an instrument, scaled independently or even inverted too.


I would love to see a tutorial on that! That sounds awesome!
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Re: Problem automating audio instruments

Postby defeq » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:44 am

fader8 wrote:
LukeDunn wrote:I CAN automate the filter with track automation, but what I'm trying to do is create a Hyper set for the ES E, and handle my filter and resonance automation with the Hyper Editor.


Here's how I do that. There may be other methods.

Select your ES E track. Draw an empty region. Open its Event List. Open a Hyper Edit window.

The Hyper is probably just showing "MIDI Controls" with a Volume definition visible. If not, choose that set.

Here's the important "don't skip" step. Select the Volume definition. In the parameters, change the status from Control to Fader. Then change the Channel to "2" and check the Channel box.

Draw a ramp in the Vol definition, just enough to give you about 20 or so events to work with.

In the Event List, select the first event. In the Number column, grab the number and change it to 1. You should see that the Info now reads Wave. Change the next event to 2, Cutoff, and so on for all 14 events. Delete any extra events. You should have 14. (15 if you want number 0, the octave control).

Now, back in the Hyper Edit window, say some magic words, then choose Create Hyperset for Current Events. Boom. You'll see it fills in all the controls with their parameter names too!

Almost done. Select each new definition in turn and change its Channel in the parameters to "2" and check the Channel box.

Don't forget to name the new Hyperset.


So does anyone know why this doesn't work in L8 anymore?? Work like a charm for me in L7 and NO GO in L8! Arrrggg! :evil: :evil:
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Postby steveH » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:25 am

A quick way to find an instrument "knob's" Fader number is to attach a monitor object to the output of the instrument's channel strip' then twiddle the knob and read the display in the monitor. Then use that information to set-up your different evironment objects or editors and program away!
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Re: Problem automating audio instruments

Postby Mark R » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:41 am

defeq wrote:
fader8 wrote:
LukeDunn wrote:I CAN automate the filter with track automation, but what I'm trying to do is create a Hyper set for the ES E, and handle my filter and resonance automation with the Hyper Editor.


Here's how I do that. There may be other methods.

Select your ES E track. Draw an empty region. Open its Event List. Open a Hyper Edit window.

The Hyper is probably just showing "MIDI Controls" with a Volume definition visible. If not, choose that set.

Here's the important "don't skip" step. Select the Volume definition. In the parameters, change the status from Control to Fader. Then change the Channel to "2" and check the Channel box.

Draw a ramp in the Vol definition, just enough to give you about 20 or so events to work with.

In the Event List, select the first event. In the Number column, grab the number and change it to 1. You should see that the Info now reads Wave. Change the next event to 2, Cutoff, and so on for all 14 events. Delete any extra events. You should have 14. (15 if you want number 0, the octave control).

Now, back in the Hyper Edit window, say some magic words, then choose Create Hyperset for Current Events. Boom. You'll see it fills in all the controls with their parameter names too!

Almost done. Select each new definition in turn and change its Channel in the parameters to "2" and check the Channel box.

Don't forget to name the new Hyperset.


So does anyone know why this doesn't work in L8 anymore?? Work like a charm for me in L7 and NO GO in L8! Arrrggg! :evil: :evil:


It works in Logic 8.0.0 until the step where you say some magic words and create Hyperset.

A workaround at this step is to go to the Hyper Menu and select:
"Create Hyper Set"
Then "Create Multiple Event Definitions" and click on "All"

This creates all the definitions without the parameter names. Have to type these in. (bummer)

Also don't forget to select each new definition in turn and change its Channel in the parameters to "2" and check the Channel box.

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Re: Problem automating audio instruments

Postby defeq » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:17 pm

Mark R wrote:It works in Logic 8.0.0 until the step where you say some magic words and create Hyperset.


Exactly... I guess we don't know the magic words for Logic 8 yet? :wink:

Mark R wrote:A workaround at this step is to go to the Hyper Menu and select:
"Create Hyper Set"
Then "Create Multiple Event Definitions" and click on "All"

This creates all the definitions without the parameter names. Have to type these in. (bummer)


I did find this method also... bummer part (like you said) is its still a very "manual" way of doing this and not much better than just cabling the instruments output to a monitor (like shorelick said... thanks... this is how I have been doing it till i read fader8's post), learning the new definition and then creating event definitions one at a time. I sure hope Apple fixes this soon, its such a fast way to work with hyper edit definitions and I was so excited when I read fader8's first post.

Mark R wrote:Also don't forget to select each new definition in turn and change its Channel in the parameters to "2" and check the Channel box.

Excuse the ignorant question... but what does checking the box do?

Thanks again for the reply Mark!

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Re: Problem automating audio instruments

Postby fader8 » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:59 pm

defeq wrote: I guess we don't know the magic words for Logic 8 yet? :wink:


It used to b "sim-sim-sala-bim" but you're right, that no longer works!

Well, we can still import the ones made in Logic 7. For example, if you download the file that Luke made here:

http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=12968

Then, in your project open the Environment, Options-Import Settings. Uncheck all except Hypersets and navigate to Luke's Hypersets.LSO file. This will bring all those sets into your project.

So we'll have to settle for making sets in LP7 and importing for various needs. Wonder how we lost that function? :cry:
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Re: Problem automating audio instruments

Postby Mark R » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:47 pm

defeq wrote:
Mark R wrote:Also don't forget to select each new definition in turn and change its Channel in the parameters to "2" and check the Channel box.

Excuse the ignorant question... but what does checking the box do?

defeq


I think it limits the viewing and drawing to the right channel, (channel 2).

LukeDunn wrote:Ok... I think i figured out why the 'status' is set to two, let me know if I'm wrong.....

status 1 = channel strip
status 2 = instrument plugin
status 3 = plugin slot 1
status 4 = plugin slot 2
etc.....


Luke


What a quirky midi editor, haven't used it much before today. Does setting the channel setting to 2 change the status to the instrument plugin?

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