Those Damn Strings dont sound real at all!!!

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Those Damn Strings dont sound real at all!!!

Postby dragontheory » Fri May 08, 2009 8:44 am

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Ok...... I have Worked and worked to make my strings sound realistic.... I use a combo of Kirk Hunter strings and the Logic Pro strings..... And I get them to sound pretty good..... But the Tweaking never ends!!!! and in the end im not totally satisfied.....
Usually..... After hours of tweaking... I find the strings hitting (Starting) late.... just not coming through.....And i Tweak some more.....and then they are all out of wack.... Although they seem to impress my music partners.... they are just not good enough for me.....
I have checked around and have yet to find any sort of instruction on the matter.....

For an example........ www.dragontheorymusic.com
Then go to the menue at the top of the page and find "TEST CHAMBER" once your there it will be the only song on the page. !

Thanks for all your help!

e.
Last edited by dragontheory on Fri May 08, 2009 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Those Damn Strings dont sound real at all!!!

Postby Ashermusic » Fri May 08, 2009 9:31 am

dragontheory wrote:HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Ok...... I have Worked and worked to make my strings sound realistic.... I use a combo of Kirk Hunter strings and the Logic Pro strings..... And I get them to sound pretty good..... But the Tweaking never ends!!!! and in the end im not totally satisfied.....
Usually..... After hours of tweaking... I find the strings hitting (Starting) late.... just not coming through.....And i Tweak some more.....and then they are all out of wack.... Although they seem to impress my music partners.... they are just not good enough for me.....
I have checked around and have yet to find any sort of instruction on the matter.....

For an example........ www.dragontheorymusic.com
Then go to the menue at the top of the page and find "TEST CHAMBER" one your there it will be the only song on the page. !

Thanks for all your help!

e.


They will never sound "real." No library will. At best, they sound "real" until you put them next to the real thing. Don't worry about making them sound real, make them sound good. And no, the two are not necessarily synonymous.
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Re: Those Damn Strings dont sound real at all!!!

Postby dragontheory » Fri May 08, 2009 9:37 am

[/quote]

Don't worry about making them sound real, make them sound good. And no, the two are not necessarily synonymous.[/quote]




Any suggestions?

Please give the song a listen....Grateful for any suggestions from a LOGIC PRO TRAINER....

e.
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Postby cmrick » Fri May 08, 2009 11:24 am

I'm no Logic Pro Trainer but I'd find a different patch that swells more or put in some cc11 to give your strings some direction. I'd say the same for the flute at the beginning. Musicians don't just hold long notes at the same volume, they give them motion even if it is subtle.
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Postby camillo jr » Fri May 08, 2009 11:44 am

To me these sound too static, with too much of the same vibrato throughout. Even with a basic EXS string sound like String Ensemble, you could do better. Here's some suggestions.

Make the string parts less "in your face", it feels too up front and kind of distracting from the vibe you set up earlier.

Use long swells, subtle or otherwise, to create some emotion.

If you were using String Ensemble, notice that at lower velocities it has a less intense vibrato. Having different vibrato intensities can help with the "realism".

At the onset of notes, sometimes a small ramp in the volume can make it sounds less mechanical. Sometimes a long ramp up to a steady tone works.

Since the parts you've come up with are relatively simple, it would be a good idea to load up a variety of string sounds to try out. At least one could be a dedicated "low vibrato" preset. Another could be one that uses the mod wheel to control volume so you could easily build in swells. Experiment with different attacks, some fast, some slow. The mod wheel is your friend!

As Ashermusic just pointed out, there is a difference between "real" and "good". But in your situation, I think you could make your parts lean a bit more to the real side by following some of my suggestions.

BTW, for some reason, I can't get your song to play more than once, even if I reload your site.
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Postby dragontheory » Fri May 08, 2009 11:57 am

Back to the LAB..... I will report back Later this afternoon...

Thanks for the advice....


e.
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Postby moon » Fri May 08, 2009 6:31 pm

When recording a sampled string arrangement, it helps to record each instrument separately on different tracks ie.. 1st Violins on one track, 2nd Violins on a different track, Violas on another, Cellos, Basses etc. And panning them in the appropriate space where you would hear them on a virtual stage. Your strings sound too homogenous and therefore like a synthesizer or organ. On your track there are more high strings playing then the low so you could divide these lines between the 1st, 2nd Violins and Violas samples. Using different samples for each instrument choir (violins, violas etc) can help along with open voicings.
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Postby HobokenKid » Fri May 08, 2009 7:05 pm

I always hate to recommend other products but have you looked at IK Multimedia's Miroslav Philharmonik at all?

It's very European style orchestration but I like the flexibility in the sample engine. The key to getting realistic sounds from any sample library in my experience is the articulation. Like the others here have said, playing with the expression and the modulation really adds that realism to the playing.

This is a little track I did with it a while ago. The strings kick in around 0:25

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UPDATE.........

Postby dragontheory » Fri May 08, 2009 9:38 pm

I took into consideration everything mentioned....
I have a hard time working to MOD wheel for emotion.... it comes out all choppy.... So I tweeked it by hand and added several new instances of strings...and even a chello....
Give a listen now....

www.dragontheorymusic.com

Then go to TEST CHAMBER and compair the 2 Burns.....

Thanks again for all of your help.....

e.
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Postby camillo jr » Fri May 08, 2009 10:09 pm

Can't get your second version to play here. First one plays fine....
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Postby dragontheory » Sat May 09, 2009 12:55 am

well that sucks....... iWeb can act a little funny sometimes.... I have tried is a couple different ways....and still the same result....

Gonna post on myspace....


e.
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Postby arafel » Sat May 09, 2009 11:32 am

New burn plays, First burn does not. Both will save 'as quicktime movie' to my desktop.. and plays from there.

Anyway, take this with a grain of salt, as I am not orchestrally trained.

The strings have a pan alteration (R then L) on the attacks. Might be fine at mid-range distance f/ speakers, but on my monitors is too prononounced and unrealistic. Unless the string section is on 2 separate sides of the stage.

Strings are bit too heavy / in ya face - compared to the open feel of rest of instruments. Less volume, more space.

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Postby Larry Mal » Sat May 09, 2009 7:26 pm

Yeah, that's a little off. I don't know about those Logic strings... I'd leave them behind. The Kirk Hunter I thought was supposed to be good though. What version do you have?

If you post a MIDI file of the string parts, I'll run them through the Philharmonik, and maybe others will do the same with their libraries. Then I'll FTP you or post here if it's possible to post an Mp3. I think it is, if the file isn't too big.
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Postby Ashermusic » Sat May 09, 2009 8:38 pm

Kirk's stuff is fine.
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Re: UPDATE.........

Postby ski » Sat May 09, 2009 9:23 pm

dragontheory wrote:chello....


That would be "cello"

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Re: UPDATE.........

Postby MidiOpera Co. » Sun May 10, 2009 8:14 am

ski wrote:
dragontheory wrote:chello....


That would be "cello"


That would be V'cello :P
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Postby Beer Moth » Sun May 10, 2009 8:19 am

Barry Chello

:D
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Postby Randall Voth » Mon May 11, 2009 8:36 pm

Have you tried playing in the part 12 times with solo legato instruments? Your music sounds like 12 robots playing the part.

A bowed instrument has subtle variation over each bow stroke, and there are many bowed instruments playing a part. The up stroke gets louder toward the frog end of the bow. The down stroke gets quieter toward the tip.

One thing you can try is play the part in. Then transpose a copy up a semi-tone and another copy down a semi-tone. Then use a pitch transformer to correct the pitch for the two transposed parts. You'll get three parts that sound like three different violins playing.
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Postby camillo jr » Mon May 11, 2009 10:15 pm

That sounds very worky to me..... dragontheory, I still think that your violins are too up front and could use some swells to make them less static. They just kind of hit everything straight on.
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