Audio clipping & 32 Bit Floating Point Processing

Hello all,

I have heard that there is something called 32 bit floating point processing that I assume gives Logic's internal environment "unclippable" headroom, which is why I presume there are no real clipping indicators in Logic? (e.g. a red light that stays on when any of our tracks have clipped.) Anyway, my question is if we accidentally do hit 0db while recording a vocal track, for example, is there still cause for concern because we have overloaded the A/D converters for that brief moment regardless of 32 bit FP?

I have been in different studios where I have seen engineers pushing the recording levels to the max, even occasionally clipping into the red according to their DAW's level indicators. This however doesn't seem to concern them at all. So then I was curious as to why.

I guess I'm not too sure how 32 bit floating point processing applies to setting our recording levels, or even watching levels during the mixing stage for that matter. Regardless of the benefits of 32 bit FP processing, should we all still be tenacious in avoiding 0dbs whether tracking or mixing?

Thanks for any advice!

Hello all,

I have heard that there is something called 32 bit floating point processing that I assume gives Logic's internal environment "unclippable" headroom, which is why I presume there are no real clipping indicators in Logic? (e.g. a red light that stays on when any of our tracks have clipped.) Anyway, my question is if we accidentally do hit 0db while recording a vocal track, for example, is there still cause for concern because we have overloaded the A/D converters for that brief moment regardless of 32 bit FP?

I have been in different studios where I have seen engineers pushing the recording levels to the max, even occasionally clipping into the red according to their DAW's level indicators. This however doesn't seem to concern them at all. So then I was curious as to why.

I guess I'm not too sure how 32 bit floating point processing applies to setting our recording levels, or even watching levels during the mixing stage for that matter. Regardless of the benefits of 32 bit FP processing, should we all still be tenacious in avoiding 0dbs whether tracking or mixing?

Thanks for any advice!

Hello all,

 

I have heard that there is something called 32 bit floating point processing that I assume gives Logic's internal environment "unclippable" headroom, which is why I presume there are no real clipping indicators in Logic? (e.g. a red light that stays on when any of our tracks have clipped.) Anyway, my question is if we accidentally do hit 0db while recording a vocal track, for example, is there still cause for concern because we have overloaded the A/D converters for that brief moment regardless of 32 bit FP?

 

I have been in different studios where I have seen engineers pushing the recording levels to the max, even occasionally clipping into the red according to their DAW's level indicators. This however doesn't seem to concern them at all. So then I was curious as to why.

 

I guess I'm not too sure how 32 bit floating point processing applies to setting our recording levels, or even watching levels during the mixing stage for that matter. Regardless of the benefits of 32 bit FP processing, should we all still be tenacious in avoiding 0dbs whether tracking or mixing?

Your analog signal will definitely clip the input of your interface. That is the part of the signal chain that has to be the cleanest and sent in at a strong level with NO clipping at the converter input - period. This all happens before the signal ever meets the 32 bit domain. Nothing can be done if you sent a clipped signal into Logic.

Once a clean signal is inside the Logic, you are in a 32 bit FP domain and the clipping you will hear is due to the signal being sent back out to your analog world.

Simply avoid clipping at all costs whether you understand 32pFB or not.

This subject has been covered many times over.

Hello all,

 

I have heard that there is something called 32 bit floating point processing that I assume gives Logic's internal environment "unclippable" headroom, which is why I presume there are no real clipping indicators in Logic? (e.g. a red light that stays on when any of our tracks have clipped.) Anyway, my question is if we accidentally do hit 0db while recording a vocal track, for example, is there still cause for concern because we have overloaded the A/D converters for that brief moment regardless of 32 bit FP?

 

I have been in different studios where I have seen engineers pushing the recording levels to the max, even occasionally clipping into the red according to their DAW's level indicators. This however doesn't seem to concern them at all. So then I was curious as to why.

 

I guess I'm not too sure how 32 bit floating point processing applies to setting our recording levels, or even watching levels during the mixing stage for that matter. Regardless of the benefits of 32 bit FP processing, should we all still be tenacious in avoiding 0dbs whether tracking or mixing?

Your analog signal will definitely clip the input of your interface. That is the part of the signal chain that has to be the cleanest and sent in at a strong level with NO clipping at the converter input - period. This all happens before the signal ever meets the 32 bit domain. Nothing can be done if you sent a clipped signal into Logic.

Once a clean signal is inside the Logic, you are in a 32 bit FP domain and the clipping you will hear is due to the signal being sent back out to your analog world.

Simply avoid clipping at all costs whether you understand 32pFB or not.

This subject has been covered many times over.

I have been in different studios where I have seen engineers pushing the recording levels to the max, even occasionally clipping into the red according to their DAW's level indicators. This however doesn't seem to concern them at all.

That doesn't have anything to do to with a 32-bit mix bus, for the reasons Shivermetimbers described. But, I can tell you that those engineers must be either:

1. after a specific effect (one that many people find really nasty-sounding);

2. mistaken about how digital recording works as opposed to tape;

3. listening carefully to clip in ways that can't be heard easily; or

4. just lousy engineers.

I have been in different studios where I have seen engineers pushing the recording levels to the max, even occasionally clipping into the red according to their DAW's level indicators. This however doesn't seem to concern them at all.

That doesn't have anything to do to with a 32-bit mix bus, for the reasons Shivermetimbers described. But, I can tell you that those engineers must be either:

1. after a specific effect (one that many people find really nasty-sounding);

2. mistaken about how digital recording works as opposed to tape;

3. listening carefully to clip in ways that can't be heard easily; or

4. just lousy engineers.

That doesn't have anything to do to with a 32-bit mix bus, for the reasons Shivermetimbers described. But, I can tell you that those engineers must be either:

 

1. after a specific effect (one that many people find really nasty-sounding);

2. mistaken about how digital recording works as opposed to tape;

3. listening carefully to clip in ways that can't be heard easily; or

4. just lousy engineers.

I would say they're most probably using their ears, and not their eyes, which is what a good engineer does. Who cares if you're clipping a snare if it sounds good. In fact depending on what you're doing it may sound better when clipped.

Then there are accidents...:

Fergie's "Finally" - major distortion

That doesn't have anything to do to with a 32-bit mix bus, for the reasons Shivermetimbers described. But, I can tell you that those engineers must be either:

 

1. after a specific effect (one that many people find really nasty-sounding);

2. mistaken about how digital recording works as opposed to tape;

3. listening carefully to clip in ways that can't be heard easily; or

4. just lousy engineers.

I would say they're most probably using their ears, and not their eyes, which is what a good engineer does. Who cares if you're clipping a snare if it sounds good. In fact depending on what you're doing it may sound better when clipped.

Then there are accidents...:

Fergie's "Finally" - major distortion

That doesn't have anything to do to with a 32-bit mix bus, for the reasons Shivermetimbers described. But, I can tell you that those engineers must be either:

 

1. after a specific effect (one that many people find really nasty-sounding);

2. mistaken about how digital recording works as opposed to tape;

3. listening carefully to clip in ways that can't be heard easily; or

4. just lousy engineers.

 

I would say they're most probably using their ears, and not their eyes, which is what a good engineer does. Who cares if you're clipping a snare if it sounds good. In fact depending on what you're doing it may sound better when clipped.

 

Then there are accidents...:

 

Fergie's "Finally" - major distortion

Yup, #1 and #3. That's definitely possible, especially if they're experienced & respected engineers.

Either way, I would prefer to work differently, prioritizing NO clipping during tracking, over "using up all the bits." I think 6dB of safety headroom is worth the 24th bit of precision that you can't really get anyway. If a clipped sound is appropriate, there's always the Bitcrusher

Re: Fergie... haven't heard it, but it makes you wonder if they got a fantastic performance with something set horribly wrong, and maybe the final result is even AFTER restorative processes?

That doesn't have anything to do to with a 32-bit mix bus, for the reasons Shivermetimbers described. But, I can tell you that those engineers must be either:

 

1. after a specific effect (one that many people find really nasty-sounding);

2. mistaken about how digital recording works as opposed to tape;

3. listening carefully to clip in ways that can't be heard easily; or

4. just lousy engineers.

 

I would say they're most probably using their ears, and not their eyes, which is what a good engineer does. Who cares if you're clipping a snare if it sounds good. In fact depending on what you're doing it may sound better when clipped.

 

Then there are accidents...:

 

Fergie's "Finally" - major distortion

Yup, #1 and #3. That's definitely possible, especially if they're experienced & respected engineers.

Either way, I would prefer to work differently, prioritizing NO clipping during tracking, over "using up all the bits." I think 6dB of safety headroom is worth the 24th bit of precision that you can't really get anyway. If a clipped sound is appropriate, there's always the Bitcrusher

Re: Fergie... haven't heard it, but it makes you wonder if they got a fantastic performance with something set horribly wrong, and maybe the final result is even AFTER restorative processes?

Re: Fergie... haven't heard it, but it makes you wonder if they got a fantastic performance with something set horribly wrong, and maybe the final result is even AFTER restorative processes?

I think professionals working on major labels stuff worry MUCH less about all that stuff than the rest of us. They probably just didn't set the levels right and couldn't be bothered fixing it. I've heard major digital clipping on many major albums. Bjork, Foo Fighters.... and I'm just talking lead vocals. Who knows what else they clipped (not so easy to tell on other stuff like percussions or guitars etc...).

Sometimes you just have to work fast, and that means proper recording procedure goes out the window. I remember talking to a "big" rock producer, and he told me: "What do you do if all of a sudden the guitar player has an idea? Do you tell him wait, let me find the best guitar cab mic, the correct mic stand, let me adjust the recording level, etc....? Of course not. You grab whatever mic is lying around, slap it in front of the guitar amp and press record before he forgets it - and more often than none that ends up being the final guitar track on the album".

Re: Fergie... haven't heard it, but it makes you wonder if they got a fantastic performance with something set horribly wrong, and maybe the final result is even AFTER restorative processes?

I think professionals working on major labels stuff worry MUCH less about all that stuff than the rest of us. They probably just didn't set the levels right and couldn't be bothered fixing it. I've heard major digital clipping on many major albums. Bjork, Foo Fighters.... and I'm just talking lead vocals. Who knows what else they clipped (not so easy to tell on other stuff like percussions or guitars etc...).

Sometimes you just have to work fast, and that means proper recording procedure goes out the window. I remember talking to a "big" rock producer, and he told me: "What do you do if all of a sudden the guitar player has an idea? Do you tell him wait, let me find the best guitar cab mic, the correct mic stand, let me adjust the recording level, etc....? Of course not. You grab whatever mic is lying around, slap it in front of the guitar amp and press record before he forgets it - and more often than none that ends up being the final guitar track on the album".

Who cares if you're clipping a snare if it sounds good. In fact depending on what you're doing it may sound better when clipped.

You know, people have been banned on other forums for less...

I use the Bitcrusher in 24 bits mode, 0 drive, lowering the threshold for intentional clipping. I never clip the A/D as it's less controllable and not undoable.

Nice feedback, thanks. I had another general question regarding clipping. During the tracking phase of recording, are there any indicators that warn you have accidentally clipped in Logic? The fader itself will show "0", which does tell me I may have accidentally clipped during that last take, however, this display resets itself once you replay. Some other DAWs have the generic red light indicator that stays on until you toggle it off. Does Logic have something like this?

Thanks again for any advice!