Step input-environment expert needed

I’ve created a rather complex environment that takes the output of a dedicated midi keyboard (from the physical output port that it is connected to), and transposes those pitches and fixes their velocities. I’m using that keyboard to insert keyswitches for Vienna Instruments Pro sampler.

 

If I’m in record mode it works perfectly, but I would love to be able to insert these little kewswitches in "step input" mode. Strangely enough, in set input, Logic doesn’t take into account any connectiion and/or transformation you may have done in the environment. Is their any way around this?

 

Thanks in advance!!

Without seeing your environment it's kind of hard to answer the question accurately. If you can, post a screenshot of your Clicks/Ports page (where I'm assuming you have your custom environment programming). That might help to answer the question.

Hi,

 

Thanks for you answer. Maybe a short explanation would do the trick. I’ve got a little 4 octave keyboard to Midi port 8 on a Motu express. In the environment I’ve gone out of port 8 and into a series of transformers to transpose and fix velocity. On the keyboard, playing from C1-B1, after the transformer(s) gives me C-1 to B-1 (transposed -24) and a fixed velocity of 10. Playing C2-B2 yeilds also C-1 to B-1 (transposed -36) but with a fixed velocity of 60. It’s really quite basic stuff, and would be great for keyswitches in VI Pro.

 

So playing of that keyboard C1 (hard), I get C-1 (velocity 10). I can even see that on the transport, and when recording (recording works fine). The VERY strange thing though is that when doing step input, I play C1, I see C-1 (both on a monitor object and in the transport info. But Logic inputs a C1, not a C-1. I expermented lots, and Logic seems to overide my midi routing when it listens to step input info. In might be related to the fact that the keycaps lock mode (an option for step input) overrides key commands to let you "play" on the querty keyboard.

 

I would love to resolve this, but am a bit pessimistic after several hours of fighting. That’s why I referred to an expert, this might be impossible!

 

Many, many thanks !!

We're all experts here.

 

 

 

I just tried out something similar to what you wrote, without the velocity switching (which doesn't make a difference for testing purposes). In short, I think you've basically discovered a bug related to step inputting. Congratulations!

 

Workaround? None that I can see. Save for this...

 

While I don't understand why you're using velocity switching to change transposition of the key switches, here's my suggestion: if you want to make life as simple as possible, set up that four octave keyboard transposed to the keys you actually want to step input and leave velocity switching out of the equation.

Also, please read our forum guidelines, particularly item #5, and add your system info to your user profile (in the signature section). Guidelines here:

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=29410

 

Thanks.

Hi Ski,

 

Thanks for trying it out. I would be very happy if they could fix that bug. The reason I want such low notes is to have the same keyswitches for all the instruments (of the orchestra (C-1 to B-1). The addition of the different velocities is because of a new feature in VI Pro which incorporate this possibility (for moving on the y axis of the matrix). So we can have multiple keyswitches for the same note, the velocity being the deciding factor.

 

Where might I report this bug to? I’ll update my info also. All best

Suggest using the Apple/Feedback link on the Apple website:

 

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

I just encountered this same problem in 9.1.6....I was trying to use the environment to control note velocities by means of the control wheel rather than actual note velocities. I got it to work great for live monitoring and recording, but 'step input' seems to completely bypass the environment and accepts raw midi notes from any midi device connected to your computer. So far the only solution I can come up with is to first process the notes through a separate computer, which is a drag!

 

Any other ideas?

Rather than using another computer you could process the MIDI data in Logic and send it to an IAC bus. In Logic, on the Physical Input object, cable that IAC bus to a dummy object in order to withdraw its data stream from the SUM to avoid a feedback loop where you'd feed the IAC bus into itself.

 

Doing that allows you to make your processed data stream (your transformed MIDI notes) available at Logic's input again, as if they came from another MIDI device/computer.

An image is worth a thousand words... let me know if you have any questions:

 

Hey David....thanks, that's a great idea! I just tried it, but what I found is that it causes step input to create doubled notes. I guess since step input bypasses the environment and accepts all inputs simultaneously, it is now recording notes both from the raw keyboard input, and now additionally the processed IAC input. The cabling/dummy monitor seem to have no effect on step input. It'd be great if there was an option for this somewhere. Were you getting the same thing?

Thanks!

Although I should note that half of the doubled notes were properly processed as desired. Unfortunately, using the 'delete doubled notes' function deleted the processed notes rather than the un-processed notes!

You're right feldizzle, step input actually hi-jacks the notes at the input so there's nothing you can do to make your original notes not engage step input. In fact I even tried Settings > MIDI > Input Filter and selected "Notes" to filter all notes at the input of Logic and playing the keys still enters notes in step input.

 

Although I should note that half of the doubled notes were properly processed as desired. Unfortunately, using the 'delete doubled notes' function deleted the processed notes rather than the un-processed notes!

Would that help you to use a Transform window to only delete notes below a certain pitch?

 

You're right feldizzle, step input actually hi-jacks the notes at the input so there's nothing you can do to make your original notes not engage step input.

Usually stuff like this has a good reason for working the way it does, but this time I can't for the life of me figure out what advantage, use, etc., they could have had in mind when they designed step input this way.

 

So, if I've grok'd this correctly, even if you were to process your MIDI in an external app like Max first, for example, it would still read what's coming directly from the hardware port anyway, right? So you'd still have doubles!

 

jamwerks,

What keyboard is this? Perhaps it's capable of sending what you need in the first place? Any other MIDI hardware laying around? Anything that could take a MIDI in, process it and spit it out? Like a Kurzweil, Fatar, etc?

So, if I've grok'd this correctly, even if you were to process your MIDI in an external app like Max first, for example, it would still read what's coming directly from the hardware port anyway, right? So you'd still have doubles!

Yes, it seems like it. The instant the MIDI comes to your computer, it is routed to Logic, which always routes it to step input independently of any filtering settings or environment routings you could have, so there's not much you can do on a single computer.

Hi, this is a super old thread, I would though still suggest an option I came across.

You can use the *Record Toggle - key command. This enables logic to input any incoming MIDI signal. You can then input a value then move the playhead forward or backwards, inputting some new info. To make it feel more like a step input you can remap you MIDI keyboard to send CC values instead of notes, using a transformer and cable switcher before you sequencer input.