Logic 9.1.5 not chasing midi automation

Logic 9.1.5 is chasing my notes very well, but doesn't catch my modulation and volume I have in hyperdraw, until it hits another dot. So I have chase notes and everything ticket in prefs, but when I hit stop and then start again, my midi sounds ridiculously loud, until it comes across another dot in modulation or volume and then it catches up and sounds normal. Is there a solution for that, so it catches up stuff in hyperdraw instantly?

thanks

There could be a couple of reasons why that happens. One of the most common is a region that contains hyperdraw that isn't drawn all the way to the edge of the region. Effectively, there is no automation data to chase in those blank spots.

 

Another possibility is that you have Modulation set to reset here:

 

Preferences > Audio > Reset tab > Control 1 (Modulation) to zero

 

So I have chase notes and everything ticket in prefs,

 

Do you mean the Chase settings in Project Settings?

thanks for the response. I know about the business of hyperdraw that isn't drawn all the way to the edge of the region won't work. All my hyperdraw does go to the edge.

I meant Chase settings in project settings indeed.

 

I don't have the modulation set to reset, as in the box is unticked. That's how it should be right?

 

Thanks for the suggestions, any other ones up your sleeve?

For the mod wheel reset, it depends on what you want; neither is always "right" for the situation. If the box is unticked, then you won't have the reset behaviour and the mod wheel setting will stay where the automation has left it.

 

But as for the rest..... if you have a volume ramp in Hyperdraw, does the channel's fader follow that? I'm trying to understand where you experience the problem. Could you post a screenshot with some hyperdraw in some regions and describe where it doesn't chase properly? And where it does.

 

Here's another possibility - do you have any Track Based Automation (TBA) going on at the same time? That will definitely fight with the RBA, if it's the same kind of automation IE, volume TBA and volume RBA.

yes the fader follows volume ramps. I think the problem might be modulation. It usually happens on instruments with modulating I think, for instance a vsl clarinet that will sounds really loud, as if the mod wheel is at the highest, until it hits a dot again and it corrects.

I don't have track based automation going on at the time, I never use it, and I checked that to be sure. I don't have a screenshot at the moment, I'll see if I can make one when running in to it again (it seems a bit random).

Thanks

It sounds like Chase is doing exactly what it should on your system. Chasing mod wheel data works similarly to the way Logic chases notes. With notes, Logic looks back and says, "there's a note that started back there and it's going on now, so I'd better play it." Likewise with Modwheel data, Logic says "there's a full-on Modwheel data bit back there, I'd better play it until I see some new Modwheel data.

 

Now, just to be sure I'm understanding your first description properly:

 

but when I hit stop and then start again, my midi sounds ridiculously loud, until it comes across another dot in modulation or volume and then it catches up and sounds normal.

 

When this happens, is there any Modwheel automation at the point where you stop?

 

And question two, does this happen if you unplug your controller?

alright so I think it's a volume thing after all.

 

If you look at this picture, you see that the volume is set to 62.

If I hit play where the cursor is, the volume plays at 110, which I can see in the channel strip. Once it hits the dot at 62, it will carry on playing at 62 and whatever follows. When I hit stop like right after the dot 62 and go back to where the cursor is in the picture, the volume goes back to 110 until it hits the dot again. So it does appear to be a funny volume issue. I opened the session on two different machines, they have a different controller, and same thing happens both times. Any ideas?

Any ideas?

 

Strip down a copy of the project to only the problem track and problem region. In the Finder, control-click it and choose 'compress...'. Attach the .zip file to this thread.

As David suggested, please post the stripped down project.

 

But I suspect that you actually do have a conflict between TBA and RBA. If there is just one node of volume automation at the top of the track and you have a region on that same track with region based volume automation, it will cause exactly the kind of behaviour you're seeing. Logic will try and chase both kinds of automation and so sometimes the RBA will seem to work properly and other times it won't. This situation is created when TBA is converted to RBA and some of the TBA, the part that wasn't over the region, gets left behind.

 

Open track automation on the problem track, choose "volume" from the automation field and look if there's a yellow line running through the track. Check if there's one node at the top (or anywhere else in the line) and delete it. When all nodes are gone, the line should turn black. Then check if your RBA automation reads correctly after that.

this is the stripped down sequence.

The tba was already greyed out.

What you will see is that the hyperdraw somehow jumps back to the volume that is set in the reset region hyperdraw, in this case 110 (you will see that if you type in 56 for instance in the reset region it will jump back to that).

If I copy the region to a new track, same thing happens.

Edited September 14, 2011 by sw1

Could you download another one but this time include the host channel strip as part of the project, not just the MIDI channel?

 

EDIT:

 

I just noticed that if I mute the first region, then after one pass through one of the nodes in the second region, the automation tracks fine. If I keep that first region muted and close and then re-open the song, it still works.

 

BTW, you DO have a region where the automation doesn't go all the way to the edge.

Edited September 14, 2011 by camillo jr

not sure if I know what you mean, in the setup we have we use external midi and bidule, I'm not actually loading anything in logic. Or did I misunderstand?

Well maybe at this point David or someone else has some ideas. I don't know why that first region causes this behaviour; (see my edited post above) I had a look at it in the event edit list and it seems fine to me. But muting it did stop the misreading of the automation.

Hi there,

 

thanks for the response again. So funny enough it doesn't work for me, what you're describing! If I mute the reset, it indeed doesn't go to 110 anymore, but it doesn't quite catch up how it should. For instance, I hit the dot (is that what you call node?) at bar 21, and then my volume hits 65, which is correct. If I stop it right away and jump to bar 23, in between nodes, it still reads 65 and not 62 which it should, until it hits the node at 25ish. See what I mean?

And yes, you're right about the automation not going all the way to the edge, I think I was dealing with another project at the time. haha, well spotted

Well, I think somehow the volume hyperdraw is corrupted. Sounds a bit batty, but if I copy just the volume in the hyperdraw to another region, it acts the same way. If I select all that volume, delete it and draw it in again, its fine. Weird stuff innit

The 110 event in the first region is on MIDI channel 1, while the others in the second region are on MIDI channel 3. Apparently Logic chases the cha 1 110 event when you're on the second region. Change everything to MIDI channel 3 and that no longer occurs.

 

I did some quick testing in a brand new empty project, and it seems that chasing only works as expected on MIDI channel 1.

 

Bug? I would guess so since the behavior is different depending on the MIDI channel.

wow, you're right! that's interesting isn't it. Thanks a lot for that, I suppose I can change them all to channel 1 for now, and for the future figure out why it was coming in on channel 3 in the first place (controller, midi guitar, etc). Thanks everyone!

wow, you're right! that's interesting isn't it. Thanks a lot for that, I suppose I can change them all to channel 1 for now, and for the future figure out why it was coming in on channel 3 in the first place (controller, midi guitar, etc). Thanks everyone!

 

Your instrument is set to MIDI Channel 3, I thought this was by design on your part (in the track parameters in the inspector).

The 110 event in the first region is on MIDI channel 1, while the others in the second region are on MIDI channel 3. Apparently Logic chases the cha 1 110 event when you're on the second region. Change everything to MIDI channel 3 and that no longer occurs.

 

Confirmed - I get the same result: change either region's channel to match the other's and automation tracks fine. But I'm confused by this:

 

I did some quick testing in a brand new empty project, and it seems that chasing only works as expected on MIDI channel 1.

 

Didn't you just establish that chasing will work on any MIDI channel as long as you don't have more than one channel per CC type on a given track?

Just one more thing, re what David and camillo were saying; What does that channel in the even list mean exactly. I've been looking at different regions in a bunch of sequences, and most of them has notes, mod and volume on channel 1, in the event list. Though some regions have all that information on the channel that the external midi instrument is set to, like 3 or 15 or whatever. I guess I'm not quite sure if everything is supposed to be on 1, or is everything supposed to be like the instrument channel. I obviously have my external midi tracks assigned to 1-16 every time, to get midi from my other machine to the right track. Anyway, it's not that important I guess, I was just curious to find out on which channel it should come in and what it means.

Thanks again guys

Hi there,

 

I still am having issues with the following:

 

I work in a large template with 500+ external midi tracks. All tracks have a small reset region at the start, which resets keyswitches and volume/modulation.

Often I option drag regions on to other tracks to double instruments etc, and when I do that, the regions channel information (which we can see in the event list) will end up a different channel than the track that it's copied onto, and therefore the channel information will be different than the reset channel on the same track. One of the logic moderators cleverly found out that hyperdraw information will respond unexpectedly if there are different channels with midi information on one track.

Does this pretty much mean I can't copy regions onto other tracks without having to change the channel? Is there a workaround? Am I the only one with this issue seeing I didn't find much to read about it?

 

Thanks in advance