Midi loop length distorts over time?!!!

So I checked and double checked. I input exactly (yes EXACTLY) 4 bars worth of midi. The midi info reads "Start 17 1 1 1 End 21 1 1 1" I then looped it over an entire 4 minute song. By the end, the midi loop no longer lined up with the bars. Over time, the loop actually shortened. Can anybody explain why that might be? I'm ver confused. And actually, it's happening all over this new project. I must be doing something wrong.

thanks

The midi info reads "Start 17 1 1 1 End 21 1 1 1"

I think you may be clicking the wrong thing?

You should be click-holding the region itself. It will tell you the start and length (not start and end). The last four digits should read 4 0 0 0:

Is there a dot at the end of the length readout, like this:

4.0.0.0. <--- dot at end

...as opposed to this...

4.0.0.0 <---no dot at end

Is there a dot at the end of the length readout, like this:

 

4.0.0.0. <--- dot at end

 

...as opposed to this...

 

4.0.0.0 <---no dot at end

Why yes, yes there IS a dot. Do I assume there is something beyond the dot? How do I see THAT info ? Ha!!! Well, here's another question... I just assume that Logic is set up to avoid this little addative errors that could occur by looping a 4.00001 bar phrase over and over. How do I set that up? I have snapping set to "smart" only because when I have tried the other snapping options, nothing seems to happen. (As in, I can't seem to get it to snap to the bar or the beat.) Is there a video or book chapter that discusses snapping in detail? How about the readout beyond the third zero? Any video or reading I could do on that?

Much thanks!!!

The dot indicates that the loop is not exactly 4 bars long. It's 4 bars plus a few samples long, and the dot indicates those "few samples". You can try and remedy the problem by several methods.

1) zoom waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay in to the end of the region, grab the right edge, and drag it to be exactly on the end of the bar. However, that might not always work. So, on to method #2:

2) click on the background of the arrange area so that no regions are selected. Open the event list and make sure the link is set to show the purple link icon. Now click on the region to select it and it will be highlighted in the list. Double-click on the length and type in 4 0 0 0 without any dots, and hit return. See if that removes the dot.

That might not work either, so on to method #3:

3) unloop the region and stretch its right edge to the right somewhat. Then place the playhead exactly on the ending bar and use the "split at playhead" function. Discard the portion on the right. Look in the event list and see if the region now has a length of 4 measures with no dot on the end.

How can this happen that Logic won't let you create a workaday loop without introducing an error? AFAIC it's a bug. Hopefully you can work around it with one of those methods. Oh, and BTW, the dot is not explained in the manual. It's like a dirty little secret or something...

In the help tag, the region length is displayed in Bars, Beats, Divisions, Ticks. With Logic 7 came sample precision editing in the Arrange area, which meant that regions could be trimmed with more precision than a tick.

The dot after the tick value indicates that the region is a bit longer than the value displayed, but less than a whole tick longer (see the different length values for the 4 first pictures below).

I'll share my favorite way to deal with this issue: Command-drag the end (command-drag should be your Marquee tool by default) and press 'Delete' on your keyboard. Note that there is no need to zoom in: if you cannot visibly see the tail end of the region, just drag the marquee from 21 1 1 1 to any value and press delete.

Indeed we have down-to-the-sample precision now, but it often comes at the expense of being able to easily (and expectedly) trim a region to a precise length in bars and beats using standard tools and methods (as I outlined). Trimming a region to length should be a no-brainer, but Logic's developers have made it a real brain-twister because it doesn't work consistently. And because of this, I consider this behavior to be a bug. And if it's not in fact a bug, I'll take the position that it's terrible design.

That said, David, I'm glad to know about your use of the marquee tool to solve this problem.

A lengthy discussion (with screenshots) is posted here. Other threads on this subject can be found by doing a search for keyword "dot" and author "ski".

I consider this behavior to be a bug. And if it's not in fact a bug, I'll take the position that it's terrible design.

It's sometimes hard to tell the difference between the two!

at the expense of being able to easily (and expectedly) trim a region to a precise length in bars and beats using standard tools and methods (...)

I've changed the way I do things. I use the Marquee tool much more than I used to. I didn't like the Marquee at first, but I kinda like it now - ok let's be honest: I LOVE it!

So when I need to resize a region, I often cut its end (or beginning) instead. I prefer the way the Marquee snaps to the grid (vs the resize tool). If it's a small adjustment I need to make, I'll resize while holding Control-Shift (which snaps to the previous/next tick) instead of Control (which allows for finer resizing at very high zoom levels).

PS: I definitely agree with you that this should be better handled, and hopefully at some point it will.

at the expense of being able to easily (and expectedly) trim a region to a precise length in bars and beats using standard tools and methods (...)

 

I've changed the way I do things. I use the Marquee tool much more than I used to. I didn't like the Marquee at first, but I kinda like it now - ok let's be honest: I LOVE it!

 

So when I need to resize a region, I often cut its end (or beginning) instead. I prefer the way the Marquee snaps to the grid (vs the resize tool). If it's a small adjustment I need to make, I'll resize while holding Control-Shift (which snaps to the previous/next tick) instead of Control (which allows for finer resizing at very high zoom levels).

Would you care to make a suggestion for a good default set up? David? Anybody else? I know that when I get good at something I have a basic set of tools that I use. What do you all use? Primary tool? Secondary tool? Do y'all have screen sets set up? I don't. What about snapping? How do navigate around? How about zooming? I am terribly inefficient right now and realize that it is time invest some time in becoming more efficient. Plus, my wrists and eyes are starting to hurt. I'm dong it all with my track pad on a 15' MackBook Pro. What is your basic set of tools?

BTW, I have watched the core logic series on mac pro video. I also have been into the 201 lesson, but I've got music coming to me right now and want to get it down before it leaves. I'm not a techie, but I realize the importance of improving my tech skills so I can start moving faster.

Would you care to make a suggestion for a good default set up? David? Anybody else? I know that when I get good at something I have a basic set of tools that I use. What do you all use? Primary tool? Secondary tool? Do y'all have screen sets set up? I don't. What about snapping? How do navigate around? How about zooming? I am terribly inefficient right now and realize that it is time invest some time in becoming more efficient. Plus, my wrists and eyes are starting to hurt. I'm dong it all with my track pad on a 15' MackBook Pro. What is your basic set of tools?

Hey Adam, that's a bunch of questions that are completely unrelated to the topic of this thread. Please do not hesitate to ask questions, but for the sake of keeping the forum organized and the moderators sane, please ask each question in its own thread, with its own proper topic title. Thank you! Read Me before posting - Forum Guidelines (#4)

I know that I'm off topic now but I think that David is to modest now.

Everything you want help with in your post is in Davids book.

So my recommendation is that you go and get that book. It is the best way to streamline your workflow.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FApple-Pro-Training-Logic-Express%2Fdp%2F0321636805%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1252539968%26sr%3D1-2&tag=loprhe-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325