overload messages and cpu spikes,,, :(

I was playing with my 2gb macbook and got system overload messags after only using 1 audiotrack and ultrabeat with a compressor. Somehow that was already too demanding of my core 2 duo 2gb macbook.

 

At times i start the sequencer and it stops after a few beats, and than it takes me 10 times to restart to get a full cycle,, after a few minutes it starts again.

This happens when cpu is only halfy taxed at one core.

 

Projects i could easily load and run in logic 7.2 are way to demanding in logic 8,, and i mean WAAAAAYY to demanding.

 

 

HELP!!!!!!

Im already aware of all this stuff http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304970,, but this still doesnt help

 

Hardware:

Motu ultralite

Macbook core 2 duo 2ghz 2gigram

os 10.4.10

external firewire hd Lacie (not journalled)

 

Problems also occur without using the external Lacie hd.

System Overload

 

I am getting system overload lately a lot too even on very small sessions.

Please help ... anyone...

 

Bal

bob0172, have you tried it without the motu connected? That's where i'd always start; disconnect any external devices.

 

It's odd that you've found Logic 8 to be more demanding. Both me and a friend have MBPs and Logic 8 is actually a lot more effficient than 7! This leads me to believe that there's definitely a gremlin in the works somewhere for yout.

 

@bal: please provide more info i.e. your current tech specs and some specifics of WHEN it's happening.

hi rob,

 

i have Mac Pro 2Ghz; 3GB RAM; Fireface800

 

it just overloads at random on any session; big or small.

 

thank you for helping

 

 

bal

bob0172, have you tried it without the motu connected? That's where i'd always start; disconnect any external devices.

 

It's odd that you've found Logic 8 to be more demanding. Both me and a friend have MBPs and Logic 8 is actually a lot more effficient than 7! This leads me to believe that there's definitely a gremlin in the works somewhere for yout.

 

@bal: please provide more info i.e. your current tech specs and some specifics of WHEN it's happening.

 

yeah without the motu connected i still got the problems. But unfortunately my lacie hd is hooked up to my motu so when i disconnect it, i might damage my hd.

 

But unfortunately my lacie hd is hooked up to my motu so when i disconnect it, i might damage my hd.

 

To avoid exactly this, I'm using the other way around without any problems at all. Since March.

 

Mac > LaCie d2 > 828 mk2

humm the manual says i should use it the other way around,,, ill trie it

 

youre still on 7.2??

Didnt help,,,

 

ITs driving me insane,, gawddarnit,,, only 4 tracks with stock plugs,, and i get overload messages and error synchronizing to midi popups,,,, cracks pops, sequencer stops running.. This even happens at 512 buffer setting!!

 

Logic is totaly unusable now!

 

Can someone please mail me a template file of a decent working configuration??

I was getting random CPU spikes, system overload messages and the like a while back, but noticed it only happed with my Focusrite Saffire interface, but not with my Digi 002R. Wrote to Focusrite and they informed me of an issue many interfaces (by a number of manufactures) were having with the last "official" AppleFWAudio Driver, which a number of interfaces rely on. At the time they gave me instructions on how to download and install the beta 2.01 of that driver and it totally fixed things, and I've since updated to the 2.10 version that is now included the the latest Focusrite drivers:

 

http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/article.php?id=237

 

Either one might help if your AppleFWAudio is pre beta of the new versions.

 

Hope that helps guys.

Yeah, bob, cracks and pops really sounds like a driver issue, not Logic!

 

Are you sure that the problem occurs when you have no external devices attached?

I'm with you guys... getting Core Audio Overloads frequently on every project, large and small.

 

So, being a software tester with multiple Macs and audio interfaces, I stopped producing with Logic and began running scenarios. I made a test plan, and matrix, and followed it exactly.

 

WARNING: Long post.

 

Systems Tested holistically (not listing systems that weren't tested with all configurations) :

Macbook 2.16GHz, 120GB 5400 RPM, 1.5GB Memory

Macbook 2.16GHz, 200GB 7200 RPM, 2GB Memory

iMac 2.16GHz, 250GB 7200RPM, 1.5GB Memory

Installation Configurations (tested once each for all above machines):

1. Clean Installation of 10.4.9 ONLY, Clean Installation of Logic Pro 8 ONLY, No 3rd Party Plugins

2. Clean Installation of 10.4.9 ONLY + 10.4.10 Update, Clean Installation of Logic Pro ONLY, No 3rd Party Plugins

3. Clean Installation of 10.4.9 ONLY + 10.4.10 Update, Clean Installation of Logic Pro, 3rd Party Plugins (Dimension Pro, Rapture, V-Station, SampleTank 2.2, Stylus RMX)

 

Audio Configurations (tested once each for all above installations):

Buffer = 128; Process Range = Small/Medium/Large; I/O Safety Buffer On/Off

Buffer = 256; Process Ranges = Small/Medium/Large; I/O Safety Buffer On/Off

Buffer = 512; Process Ranges = Small/Medium/Large; I/O Safety Buffer On/Off

Buffer = 1024; Process Ranges = Small/Medium/Large; I/O Safety Buffer On/Off

 

Project Configurations:

44.1KHz/48KHz 16bit/24bit (depending on soundcard capabilities)

Pre-Roll On/Off

 

Audio Interfaces:

Built-in, Core Audio Drivers

MOTU 828, MOTU Drivers, FW

Presonus Firebox, Core Audio Drivers, FW

Mackie Onyx Satellite, Core Audio Drivers, FW

Focusrite Saffire, Core Audio Drivers, FW

Audio Interface Notes:

For the purposes of my "official" notes, I followed the manufacturers suggestions regarding OS version, as well as "workarounds" for the 10.4.10 FW interface bug (driver rollback) that touched some of the interfaces (notably from memory, Mackie and Focusrite).

 

Observations:

1. It happens MUCH more often on the first projects I open after a machine reboot. In fact, I can reproduce it 100% with ALL above configurations and a tiny little test project I constructed (1 instance of Ultrabeat, 3 instances of ES2, no effects, to EQ).

2. Buffer settings had little to no effect. Meaning, a buffer set to 128 would do it almost as frequently a buffer set to 1024 on most devices, with the one exception being the Saffire, which seemed to lack the overloads @ 1024/process buffer=Large. It, however, has another issue (see notes below). Of course, CPU usage would drop a bit when buffer=1024 over buffer=128.

3. Process Buffer ranges had little to no effect with most devices. The Mackie and built-in audio behaved better with process buffer range of Large.

4. I/O Safety Buffer set to On (checked) made it happen more often on all devices.

5. 44.1/44.8, 16bit/24bit had no effect.

6. It happens 90% of the time on region start... rarely happens randomly during playback, but when I hit a new region (the first on a given track): bam. In fact, the only time I've seen it happen during region playback is with one project that has one instance of es2 with 3 effects (compressor, flanger, chn eq), two instances Stylus.

7. Project setting Pre-roll=On had no effect.

8. Using built-in plugins over 3rd party plugins had no effect (see notes below, though).

9. There seemed little to no correlation between CPU usage and getting an Overload (meaning: a project having 10% CPU usage was not less likely to get an overload than one with 50% CPU usage).

10. With some interfaces, allowing time after booting the machine before opening Logic AND allowing time after project load before hitting play would SOMETIMES help. What I mean is this: it's more likely to happen if you boot the machine, immediately open Logic Pro, and immediately hit play on the project that autoloads (the last opened project on my system). I should note that this was a new strategy, and the only interface I've done this with is the Saffire. I'll also note that it doesn't make a difference every time, so it might be a red herring.

11. I saw no correlation between opening projects created in 7.2 in 8 vs. project originally created in 8.

12. It happens less frequently after I've played the first 2-6 projects (depending on the above setting matrix). And, in some cases, it will go away until I reboot the MACHINE (not Logic Pro... rebooting Logic Pro, for example, didn't make it come back).

13. It NEVER happens on fresh projects... truly new projects. Meaning, if I open it, create a new project, I can go and go and go and go and go... close Logic/reopen Logic... go and go and go. But, once I've rebooted the machine, when I open the project: bam.

 

NOTES:

1. The Saffire gets the overloads much less frequently than the others, though it still gets them. However, it comes with its own set of problems: it spikes ONE core of the dual cores... jumps up and down from ~30% to red lining, while the other CPU sits @ ~20% and stays there; it also gets MIDI/Audio out of sync messages, even though the audio/midi configurations for it match the Logic/project settings.

2. On the Saffire, in ONE project, freezing Sculpture made the CPU spiking disappear. Attempting similar freezes on other projects has (as yet) not changed their behavior, however (hoping something will reveal itself there). With the other interfaces (that didn't have the spiking but did have overloads), freezing Sculpture only stopped the overload that happened with the Sculpture MIDI region... bummer too, I had hoped I'd found a culprit.

3. I haven't found a "plugin" culprit. Meaning, I can get it with all of the built-in plugins I've tested, as well as all of my 3rd party plugins.

4. I also tested various configurations for where my projects live (internal/external hd) and where my samples/libraries live (internal/external hd). No differences were observed, and none were expected... these projects aren't big enough to expect any.

5. I also tested multiple brands of memory... Apple OEM, G. Skill, Patriot. No differences.

6. I also made sure that in no circumstances was I hitting the limits of my memory... very few samples, for example, and no other applications running.

7. I followed all of the optimizations I could find: turned off widgets... no wired/wireless networking... no startup items... system set for best performance... permissions repairing... disk verification. No differences.

 

I get this with EVERY project I have (I've tried all of them, and most of them in every configuration listed above)... I can repro it 100% of the time:

- reboot machine

- load any project

- hit play

- overload at first midi region

 

For comparisons' sake (Mac side on same Macbooks, but didn't try with iMac):

- Ableton Live 5.2.2, Ableton Live 6.0.9/6.0.10 both work flawlessly, with comparable projects. Next on the list of things to do is export all the midi and create the SAME projects, but I honestly don't expect any difference.

 

For comparisons' sake (Bootcamped Windows side on same Macbooks, but didn't try with iMac):

- Ableton Live 5.2.2, Ableton Live 6.0.9/6.0.10 both work flawlessly, with comparable projects... usually larger.

- Cakewalk Sonar 6.2.1 & Project5 2.5.1 both work flawlessly, with comparable projects, MOST much larger.

 

Note that I did much of the testing BEFORE bootcamping the machine on clean drive installs. I've only started bootcamping because I need to be able to compose, and Logic isn't giving me that at this point.

Also note that, though the interfaces were the same on the Windows side, the drivers are ASIO.

 

Alright, sorry again that this post is so long, but I've been (literally) testing this since about the 4th day I had Logic 8, and I got it the day after it was released for purchase.

 

Hopefully, something in there will help someone, or actually help someone figure out the culprit. I'm holding out hope that either 10.4.11, or a Logic patch, or Leopard takes care of this, and I'll keep testing it until that time (though I think the Guitar Center guys are getting tired of me swapping out so many audio interfaces). I'm planning on testing the Echo AudioFire4 next, followed by a MOTU Ultralite.

 

If you have any questions, ask away. It's likely I didn't actually post all of my findings (believe it or not).

 

Take care,

- zevo

Edited October 12, 2007 by inmazevo

Wow - that test is thorough. Just out of curiousity, why don't you use the 90 day support window (isn't there one) to submit the issue and all that info?

Wow - that test is thorough. Just out of curiousity, why don't you use the 90 day support window (isn't there one) to submit the issue and all that info?

 

I've filed a defect report, as well as a Logic feedback report, but that was a couple of weeks ago, roughly. Both contained much of the same information, though with a smaller data set.

 

Indeed. I need to file another.

 

As for support. Hmm.

I can do that too (and will), but after reading the knowledge base articles on the apple site, and the responses I see on forums (mostly echoing the same type of ideas), I'm a little less than hopeful that they'll tell me anything other than what is already their position on the problem: it's a minor/infrequent issue that effects a minority of users who might be somehow involved in the fault (meaning, system configuration problems... pilot error... bought the wrong interface). Basically: it's not a defect... it's a symptom of something else.

 

However, it's a good point. I'll contact support too (I shouldn't be so cynical).

 

I'm convinced that it's either:

a) a logic defect

b) a breach between logic pro and tiger on Intel machines (I've noticed that I THINK I've seen more people with this on Intels than the G4/G5 line, which consequently were the chips out @ Tiger release date) - This one is why I'm hopeful that Leopard might actually help.

 

However, I haven't actually counted the people with the issue to know whether it's more common on Intels than not, and the Leopard theory is based on cubical conversations with my fellow devs... I might be wrong on both counts.

 

Does Logic have log files?

Can you put it in debug mode?

 

I'll have to go look around. That would be particularly helpful.

 

In any event. I'm hoping it (whatever IT is) will be fixed. I'm running out of money for test interfaces upstream, and I'm getting to the end of my interest in it. I'll stick it out, of course, I LOVE logic... unfortunately, for me right now, it's a Ferrari without wheels.

 

When I boot the machine, open Logic and hit play... I expect it to PLAY... Sonar does it... Live does it... Project5 does it... all on the same machine. I'm not even fooling around with controller or anything, I'm just hitting play.

 

For Logic Pro to NOT do it on a Mac is just... well, embarrassing.

 

Take care,

- zevo

humm the manual says i should use it the other way around,,, ill trie it

 

youre still on 7.2??

 

Yeah.

7.2.3

But I know you are talking about L8.

Well, let's hope you can solve this.

Good luck.

 

As soon as I get Logic Studio I'll do some tests with dense projects too.

Yeah, bob, cracks and pops really sounds like a driver issue, not Logic!

 

Are you sure that the problem occurs when you have no external devices attached?

 

The pops were because of low buffer rate, (256), i got rid of it when i switched to 1024. But with only 4 tracks you should at least be able to run at 256 without the cracks n pops

@inmazevo

 

WOUW you realy went down all the permutations,, good work. Your symptoms are the same as mine.

 

It might be a solution to load a template file of someone who has a propper running system. Might be that a single setting is causing the problems

I'm getting this as well on my MBP 2.16 w/ 2GB RAM. I'm trying to run the demo song Shiny Toy Guns as well as a track of my own which just has 3 midi tracks playing EXS24 instruments. It seems that it shoudl be able to handle that.

 

I followed one suggestion form the apple boards to repair permissions and trash the logic prefs - no good...

Yeah, bob, cracks and pops really sounds like a driver issue, not Logic!

 

Are you sure that the problem occurs when you have no external devices attached?

 

The pops were because of low buffer rate, (256), i got rid of it when i switched to 1024. But with only 4 tracks you should at least be able to run at 256 without the cracks n pops

 

bob, have you tried it at 128 or even 64? I find sometimes that a mid-range buffer can cause audio glitches/stuttering but that setting the buffer lower actually gets rid of the problem. I've *never* set the buffer to 1024. Seems like an incongruously high number to me

 

@zevo: well done on some serious testing there! I wouldn't have the patience to be so thorough.

 

Just to let you know, (although you might not want to) I've not experienced any of the issues that you mention. I'm running a 2.33Ghz MBP C2D with 2GB RAM. I haven't tried it with multiple interfaces, but I don't have multiple interfaces to test out. Conversely, I've found Logic 8 to run more efficiently than Logic 7. Have noticed some issues with ES2 when opening L7 files though.

Switching to the internal soundcard realy didnt help ONE bit so the firewireport shouldnt be the problem i think.

 

@Rob

When i go down to 64 or 128 logic totaly jams, it cant even squeeze one ittle click or pop. Its totaly strugglin. Im getting desperate now

Logic and L8 is a brand new experience for me, as well as a new macbook (2ghz/2gig ram). I have a saffire LE and an external fw hd.

 

One of the first things I did was try the demo songs and see what happens. They all ran fine except for that "le disko" song. Everytime from a cold boot there would always be in, the same 3 places, the overload message.

 

Being anal, I insisted to myself that this song MUST play on my system. I experienced much of what others do, that is, after the first attempt and changing ~something~

in the audio prefs, it'll play all the way through.

 

As far as samples, it WOULD play at any sample rate (except 32....I was too chicken to go that low lest I be dissapointed) :wink

 

And when it overloaded it would do it no matter even at the highest rate.

 

The first time I started messing with a new project with just a couple of tracks, I got the message, but it hasn't happened since then so far. (knock on wood)

 

Since that happened I started reading anything concerning system optimization for audio so that may have helped a bit.

 

But whatever it is, and apparently it is something, I hope they fix it.

Logic and L8 is a brand new experience for me, as well as a new macbook (2ghz/2gig ram). I have a saffire LE and an external fw hd.

 

One of the first things I did was try the demo songs and see what happens. They all ran fine except for that "le disko" song. Everytime from a cold boot there would always be in, the same 3 places, the overload message.

 

Being anal, I insisted to myself that this song MUST play on my system. I experienced much of what others do, that is, after the first attempt and changing ~something~

in the audio prefs, it'll play all the way through.

 

As far as samples, it WOULD play at any sample rate (except 32....I was too chicken to go that low lest I be dissapointed) :wink

 

And when it overloaded it would do it no matter even at the highest rate.

 

The first time I started messing with a new project with just a couple of tracks, I got the message, but it hasn't happened since then so far. (knock on wood)

 

Since that happened I started reading anything concerning system optimization for audio so that may have helped a bit.

 

But whatever it is, and apparently it is something, I hope they fix it.

 

Configuring logic for optimization helps to some extend, but certainly not enough to make the system run like it should, wich is at least as efficient as logic 7.2 or all other DAWS.

"and i get overload messages and error synchronizing to midi popups,,,"

 

FWIW, this has been happening to me a lot since I got Logic 7.1 ove a year ago. MBP, 2 gigs ram, lots of "Core overload" and 'Error trying to sync midi and audio' messages. I've posted ahere and tried some things, but nothing has ever worked. Got one this morning, using a Garageband loop while not even recording but only playing along with an organ sound from the EVB3, about 10 measures in--"Error trying to synchronize midi and audio."

ild recommend updating the firmware for you Ultralite.

 

I didnt have that many problemns in 7.2,, for me Logic 8 has been nothing but trouble.

never had any issues as such. I use m-audio firewire solo (yeah, I know it is lame, gotta get analog compressor/limiter to put in front of it).

So please, share some testing project with us/me here/pm - will see.

Please note tho, that I have LE8, so no funky plugins allowed (such as space designer, multiband compression, and few other exceptions to this fine otherwise product).

Thanks, I'm pretty sure it's not the Ultralite, as I haven't been using it a all for months. I now use my Tascam FW1884 instead. It is the same regardless of which I use.

It's really odd, the difference between very similar systems. I've got a 2.33Ghz MBP with only 2GB RAM (soon to be 3GB) and I've found Logic 8 to be more CPU efficient and more stable! I do a *lot* of work with just the built-in Core Audio, as my interface is in the studio and I like to work at home a fair bit.

 

It almost seems like something in your OS X setup has gone awry. It's not like I have a 'clean' system myself. I use it for all sorts and have at least 100 apps installed (30+ frequently used).

 

As for the midi sync error, the only time I get that is if I change between internal speakers and built-in output while Logic is playing. Even then it doesn't happen that often!

 

I often wonder whether things like networks, firewalls and non-connected device drivers could cause the issues that people seem to experience. When I installed OS X, I spent a while just ensuring that nothing was enabled that didn't need to be i.e. Firewalls, Personal Web Sharing etc.

 

None of the above *should* make a difference, but I guess my system optimisation techniques are tie-overs from my Windows days, where they generally *did* cause problems! 8)

While I do feel lucky that I haven't had any recent occurances of CPU spikes or system overload warnings (if I'm judging by the Logic 8 meter, it appears to be a little less effecient, but nothing that's derailed anything), I really hope that all of you that are, particularly those having problems spring up post-upgrade, report these issues as thoroughly as possible via the Logic Feedback page at apple.com. Also, I could be wrong, but I think there is a 90 day free call-support window, so it might be even more effective if as many as possible of you experiencing this issue called in. Hope is it gets resolved!

im in overload helll,, ,, cant even play the demo's, or the preset setups, i have now tweaked all my settings on every single permutation possible, and absolutely NOTHING HELPS!!!! Edited October 16, 2007 by bob0172

 

But unfortunately my lacie hd is hooked up to my motu so when i disconnect it, i might damage my hd.

To avoid exactly this, I'm using the other way around without any problems at all. Since March

 

first thing I'd try is NOT daisy chaining the drive to the interface..use SEPERATE FW ports for each. I believe the D2 is FW 800 capable..if you're on a laptop....use the FW800 for the drive, and the FW 400 for the interface.

 

please post your Logic 8 session file here...I'll give it a go as well.

my laptop doesnt have 2 fw ports, so i have no choice. And technicaly daisychainging should work, ive seen nummerable setups running smoothly on digital performer and protools with this setup

 

should i upload a template or a project file??