Difference between Aux, and Bus....

when I do my recordings the only think I think is bussing my reverbs, or my delays...etc, but I'm trying to figure out if using an Aux is better, cause I only use a aux when I'm doing a Multi-channel with a virtual instrument...

So can I use FX on an Aux also, if so why?

I was wondering the same when I began working on L8. Seems like there's not much diference to me, as when you send a track to a bus it is actually an aux that's used (but labelled bus).

I'll let the real pro answer more in details as I wouldn't want to lead you in error.

The L8 manual clearly describes the intended usage (page 233):

"In Logic Pro, the send effect is placed in an Insert slot of an aux channel. The signals of the individual channels that you want to process are sent to this aux channel, using a bus."

Hi..There are no longer Bus channel strips in L8..They are all Aux channel strips..

You can still create then using the enviroment window if you wish. Or if you open an older project that used L7 they will appear..

If you want to check out what used to be a bus channel strip in previous versions..Open the enviroment window and click New..Then create a channel strip for a bus and an aux..They should end up next to each other and you will see the difference..The question would come up from time to time on Logic forums as to what the need for the Bus channel strip was when it was obvious the Aux channel strip gave many more options..Bus just basically is a router item in L8 which is a good idea that's time has come..The auxs are much more powerful.. JON

Since this is the way Logic went, you better get used to Aux objects for these things. Basically the differences between Bus objects and Aux objects are as follows:

Bus Object: The "head" of a certain bus. Not to be confused with the bus itself which is just a connection, but if you use a Bus object with inserts, sidechain inputs use the output signal of this bus object instead of the summed bus signal itself.

Aux Object: Can "take" the signal from a bus. If you want to use the signal modified by the Aux object's inserts on a sidechain input, you have to use another bus that the Aux object feeds its signal to.

L8 creates an Aux object automatically when you choose a new send destination bus for the first time.

Big confusion about these things, as was discussed before, but just read and think about it, it's not as difficult as it seems to use this stuff.

..Bus just basically is a router item in L8 which is a good idea..

+1

Since the introduction of the aux channel in Logic (4.5?) there's been confusion about this. It didn't help that sends were called "aux sends" then too. So I think the naming conventions have caused some misunderstanding over the years. In reality, a bus and an aux are completely different things.

If you think about it, a bus is a very complex and powerful thing and has a lot to do, which is why the quantity of available buses is limited. In Logic Platinum 4 you could only have 16 of them!. A bus has to be able to take multiple signal paths, mix them together, then be able to deliver that stream of mixed signals to multiple destinations. So when you invoke a new bus path send from your audio track, you're actually creating a new whole mix engine within Logic each time.

In contrast, an aux is simple. It's similar to an audio track object as it only has to take one audio stream and deliver it to a single location, (sends notwithstanding). It's not a mixing bus. A typical use for the aux is to provide a way to tap audio from a bus and return that audio to your main mix. That's why Logic automatically creates an aux return channel whenever you send to a bus. Otherwise you wouldn't hear anything.

Logic used to use a bus channel "object" to perform this return task, and you still can if you want to. But the the bus channel object doesn't offer some of the bells and whistles that the aux channel does, like its own sends.

What the bus object can do that an aux can't, (by itself) is process all the audio collected on that bus path, and, provide a master signal level that changes the level delivered to all its destinations.

For example, take 5 string tracks all delivering dry audio to the main mix. Instanciate sends on all of them to bus 1. Create a bus channel object and assign its properties to bus 1. Insert an exciter and a compressor on the bus object. Create 3 aux channel objects, one with a delay, one with a short verb with distortion and another with a long verb. Set their inputs to bus 1 and outputs to the main mix.

In this example, all the strings go through the comp and exciter before it hits the the parallel reverbs and delay. The bus fader becomes the "master" send control to all 3 destinations. That's very convenient.

Pro Tools works the same way. But the bus channel object is called a "Master" channel in PT. That's appropriate because that's the actual function it's serving.

For example, take 5 string tracks all delivering dry audio to the main mix. Instanciate sends on all of them to bus 1. Create a bus channel object and assign its properties to bus 1. Insert an exciter and a compressor on the bus object. Create 3 aux channel objects, one with a delay, one with a short verb with distortion and another with a long verb. Set their inputs to bus 1 and outputs to the main mix.

 

In this example, all the strings go through the comp and exciter before it hits the the parallel reverbs and delay. The bus fader becomes the "master" send control to all 3 destinations. That's very convenient.

Yes. Convenient. But if you set up an Aux object with bus 1 as source and with the comp and the exciter in its insert slots and route the output to bus 37, then create three Aux objects with delay/ dist&short verb/long verb taking their input from bus 37, you have the same thing... with the little difference you need two buses instead of one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixing_console#Auxiliary_send_routing

To avoid confusion with conventional terminology,

maybe in L8 the "aux channels" should be renamed as "effect channels".

Generally I think that software DAWs should utilize new possibilities for clean and flexible concepts and not lean too much on conventional hardware systems.

you have the same thing... with the little difference you need two buses instead of one.

Actually, in this case you're using 3 objects, an aux and 2 busses, where you could be using just one bus. Since the busses represent complete mixing engines, this can make a difference in cpu usage in large projects, without benefit, let alone the inconvenience of running out of busses too.

you have the same thing... with the little difference you need two buses instead of one.

 

Actually, in this case you're using 3 objects, an aux and 2 busses, where you could be using just one bus.

Don't forget the Bus object which is not necessarily part of a bus (although it acts as if it were). It is an additional task like an Aux object.

Since the busses represent complete mixing engines, this can make a difference in cpu usage in large projects, without benefit, let alone the inconvenience of running out of busses too.

True... The need of a second bus is annoying. But I doubt it will burden the CPU too much if it is just used as a connection from one input to one output.

Well, I would very much appreciate the option to use the good old Bus objects instead of Aux objects for effect sends... Without the need to use the environment and without the bad feeling they are mostly obsolete. Just the option... Somewhere in the prefs: "Auto create Bus objects instead of Aux objects"...

Don't forget the Bus object which is not necessarily part of a bus (although it acts as if it were). It is an additional task like an Aux object.

Not really. You're only invoking a user interface for a process that already exists.

Well, I would very much appreciate the option to use the good old Bus objects instead of Aux objects for effect sends...

You can. Just create some bus objects in all your templates and they're ready for use. But I don't use them as effects returns because I like the option of being able to easily preprocess that bus and pick it up on more aux's later. It's all about workflow.

I wouldn't worry about the bus object going obsolete. Having a simple bus master fader is fundamental to mixing.

Don't forget the Bus object which is not necessarily part of a bus (although it acts as if it were). It is an additional task like an Aux object.

Not really. You're only invoking a user interface for a process that already exists.

At this point I start to feel somewhat tired... You seem to have insight into this piece of software as if you are involved in its development. I don't. If you are right, you are right.

Well, I would very much appreciate the option to use the good old Bus objects instead of Aux objects for effect sends...

You can. Just create some bus objects in all your templates and they're ready for use. But I don't use them as effects returns because I like the option of being able to easily preprocess that bus and pick it up on more aux's later. It's all about workflow.

 

I wouldn't worry about the bus object going obsolete. Having a simple bus master fader is fundamental to mixing.

I don't worry. I get myself used to not using bus objects. The earth won't stop spinning because of this.

Hey, when I remember I didn't want to reply to these Bus-Aux-Threads anymore...

At this point I start to feel somewhat tired...

LOL, me too. This issue keeps getting beaten to death!

You seem to have insight into this piece of software as if you are involved in its development.

No, just witnessed it from one version to the next.

Hey, when I remember I didn't want to reply to these Bus-Aux-Threads anymore...

I know what you mean! It's all about personal preference and how you work with audio in Logic. There's no "right" or "wrong". But it's good to know what your options are.

So Jope, next time we'll just post links to the dozens of bloody threads that bludgeon this issue. Save us both some grief!

(...) So Jope, next time we'll just post links to the dozens of bloody threads that bludgeon this issue. Save us both some grief!

Yup. You're a real buddy. Have a nice day!

Also read this:

http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=4159

As far as I can tell, Jope and Fader, all that has been revealed

in this thread is that Logic seems to have moved closer to the

conventions that anyone working with hardware for years

took for granted !

-

For donkeys' years, when seated at a real board, you "sent" to

an effect and its output was returned to the mix on an "aux"

channel with its own fader. Blissful simplicity.

-

A "bus" has traditionally always referred a routing structure,

characteristic of the particular desk you're working with.

-

Logic "hi-jacked" the word "BUS", when what the original

programmers really wanted to refer to was what we used,

in the good old days, to call a "group" channel.

-

Then again, "groups" in Logic do something different, again.

-

Words, words, words.

-

C

Fader8...thanks for finally making it clear to me that the Master Faders I used in PT before AUX returns (to control the level hitting the AUX) is actually what a buss fader IS in Logic. AH! So when I group 16 tracks of vocals and buss them to a Background Vox AUX, I could have a BUSS "master" to control their levels before hitting the AUX, etc.....right now I use the gain plug in...

Tom

I can't help it - i had to think it over again. Here is what I presume: There is a difference between L7 and L8 in such a way that buses and bus objects are more strictly detached from each other in L8. I'm not convinced the Bus Object is just the surface of something that is anyway present for every bus, at least not in L8. So the difference between Bus Objects and Aux Objects concerning the CPU usage is similar as long as the Aux Object contains no sends.

Still the primary difference which type you use is how many buses you need for certain purposes.

But again, since we don't know about the coding, it's all speculative.

I can't help it - i had to think it over again. Here is what I presume: There is a difference between L7 and L8 in such a way that buses and bus objects are more strictly detached from each other in L8. I'm not convinced the Bus Object is just the surface of something that is anyway present for every bus, at least not in L8. So the difference between Bus Objects and Aux Objects concerning the CPU usage is similar as long as the Aux Object contains no sends.

Still the primary difference which type you use is how many buses you need for certain purposes.

But again, since we don't know about the coding, it's all speculative.

Bus and Aux objects are exactly the same in both Logic 7 and Logic 8. You don't have to have a bus object for each bus you use, but if you have one then it controls the output of that bus, before the Aux can access it.

IMHO, the bus object is a legacy thing, only till there for backward compatibility, as all it really is is a crippled Aux.

I expect it to be removed from the app at some point in the future.

Fader8...thanks for finally making it clear to me that the Master Faders I used in PT before AUX returns (to control the level hitting the AUX) is actually what a buss fader IS in Logic.

Hey, you're welcome. I know the manual tends to overlook many crucial details like this. This is the closest it gets:

Send effects are also called bus effects, bus send or bus returns, auxiliary send or auxiliary returns, or simply send or returns.

 

In Logic Pro, the send effect is placed in an Insert slot of an aux channel. The signals of the individual channels that you want to process are sent to this aux channel, using a bus.

Really they should have gone into it in the Parallel and Series Routings section on pg 236, but no. The Logic 7 manual is a bit better in this regard, but it's apparent that the manual is being written now under the supervision of product management in Cupertino who may not be too "in touch" with actual application. But that doesn't negate the fundamental need for a bus master fader.

So the difference between Bus Objects and Aux Objects concerning the CPU usage is similar as long as the Aux Object contains no sends.

Jopey! I thought we were avoiding this subject! I think the difference should be negligible until you start adding more audio streams to the bus and the task of mixing them adds to processing requirements. But that's very minimal on todays systems I would think.

(...)Jopey! I thought we were avoiding this subject!

Oh - I forgot. Why can't I just shut up...

spot on mister horse!!!

if u have never worked with hardware.... u missed out.

to be honest... i'd prefer the neve..hhahaha

2 rules to follow with

inserts vs bus [send] theres all ways exceptions tho...

1-verb/delay/chours/ modulation fx- ideally in an aux return.

this allows much greater degree of control with mixing the desired amount of fx. and 2 mono sources [track]+[mono or stereo fx]= pannin options

not nearly as convenient as without the extra aux channel pan control.

2- eq/comp/limiter/exciter[not always tho -fatiguing -booooo] non delayed/mod fx

belong in the an insert [because of phase anomalies with the mix of 2 identical waveform @ the same point in time causes amplitude cancellation. [unless of course u want to use it for the phase fx]

and i didnt read all the posts but fyi... [you=who ever may not know]

in L8 when u add a bus to a channel the aux is created 4 u just ad your fx of choice... sorry i dont know if its a pref setting or not.i did it the 1st time

it was created there 4 me & i just said cooool!

as a side note an hour with a hardware mixer,cd player,delay&patch bay

u can learn everything u ever wanted to about signal routing.

well...almost everything

we now return u to your regularly scheduled

software hardware imitation program

hahah