Understanding Plug-in delay compensation . . .

Would someone please help clarify when to use ALL and when to use AUDIO & Instruments.

Right now I have it set to all and record with logics instruments, dfhs, ez drummer (both with AUX tracks), amplitube 2 and the gearbox plugin. Live instruments are bass guitar, electric guitar and vocals. I don't make full use of effects until I'm done recording and starting to mix. I also stay away from the plug ins that don't work with delay compensation like the adaptive limiter and match eq until I start to mix.

I tried to search but did not really find the answers I was looking for.

Thanks.

and when recording should it be left at ALL as well?

Patrick,

The option is there to allow you to adjust PDC to your workflow. I'll quote the 2 key points about PDC from the manual that are the most important to keep in mind:

1. If latency-inducing plug-ins are inserted into aux or output channels (or ReWire channels, if used), Logic Pro delays all other audio streams by an appropriate amount.

 

2. If latency-inducing plug-ins are inserted into audio or instrument channels, Logic Pro automatically shifts these tracks forward in time. The advantage of this method is that other channels (that do not contain latency-inducing plug-ins) do not need to be delayed.

Basically, you could overdub into a project with PDC set to audio and instrument tracks only because the source tracks are being played in advance, ie nothing gets delayed.

Plugs on aux and output channels still report their processing delay to PDC even when bypassed. So the ability to disable PDC for just those channel objects can be very useful.

I still don't get it.

Can I leave it at "ALL" and forget about it?

or do I need to switch to"Audio Instruments" when tracking

and the back to "All" for mixing.

"Latency induced " plugins = how do I know which ones these are?

Is there a list?

I've read that match eq and adaptive limiter are latency induced.

Aside from logics plugins I use gearbox & amplitube .

When you're recording turn PDC off because you'll hear echoes if you have plugins on other tracks. Use PDC for mixing and set it to ALL.

Adaptive Limiter, Linear Phase EQ, Match EQ are latency-inducing. Or any plugin that looks ahead for that matter. Just bypass them when you're recording.

Ok. I'll try this out as I've always set it to all regardless, but never heard any echos?

I try and see what's different.

I leave mine to ALL always, and use the Low Latency Button for tracking.

I don't seem to see/hear any issues, but does this mean my tracks are not being recorded exactly where they should be?

Or is that not the issue?

If so, would my tracks be early or late under this scenario?

Thanks

OK, we all know that Adaptive Limiter and a couple of other plugins introduce latency.

But,

I have noticed that - when PDC is "ON", and no plugins in use, there is still a latency when I play the keyboard.

With the same buffer settings,

there is no latency in Logic 7 or 6.......

I think it's just another mess they made in Logic 8.

So PDC = off when recording & = on when mixing?

This is confusing?

OK, we all know that Adaptive Limiter and a couple of other plugins introduce latency.

But,

I have noticed that - when PDC is "ON", and no plugins in use, there is still a latency when I play the keyboard.

With the same buffer settings,

there is no latency in Logic 7 or 6.......

 

I think it's just another mess they made in Logic 8.

That doesn't make any sense! If a plug-in creates latency, then you'll ALWAYS hear that latency while playing live. ie if a plug-in takes 300ms to process your signal, no software (no, not even Logic 7) can somehow make it possible for you to play live through that plug-in without at least 300ms of latency.

PDC doesn't automatically and magically gets rid of latency. It ADDS latency to the audio signal that are not affected by latency so all audio signals are synced.

So PDC = off when recording & = on when mixing?

This is confusing?

No "off" when recording, but set to "instruments and tracks". And set to "All" when not recording.

So PDC = off when recording & = on when mixing?

This is confusing?

 

No "off" when recording, but set to "instruments and tracks". And set to "All" when not recording.

So David, under my scenario in my post above... do you think my "recorded tracks" are actually not recorded/placed.... exactly where they should be???

thanks

I am having the same issue..... No they are not placed where they should be. Especially if you have to mix in another program all your live recordings will be out of place

I want to see how much it is compensating so I can off set it in my Mixing program... The All Mighty Pro Tools...

Please don't take me wrong. I love Logic too. Pro Tools sux when it comes to handling Virtual Instruments.

I just want one program to do it all

Ed

So PDC = off when recording & = on when mixing?

This is confusing?

 

No "off" when recording, but set to "instruments and tracks". And set to "All" when not recording.

 

So David, under my scenario in my post above... do you think my "recorded tracks" are actually not recorded/placed.... exactly where they should be???

thanks

If you record audio with Software Monitoring OFF you should be OK...

I am having the same issue..... No they are not placed where they should be. Especially if you have to mix in another program all your live recordings will be out of place

 

I want to see how much it is compensating so I can off set it in my Mixing program... The All Mighty Pro Tools

Ed

Well, I honestly don't see or hear it, and I do a fair amount of editing/recording.

But if its a small # of samples, I could see why I wouldn't be.

However, I'm trying to find out if, since I use the Low Latency Mode button when tracking... (which temp turns off/bypasses latency causing plug-ins so you can track).. I might actually be getting the same result????

Thanks

I will try it when I am tracking next to use Low Latency. I will do a experiment I will lay some guitars down to a drum loop using LOW LATENCY MODE One with PDC On..... and try it OFF. Then transfer both to Pro Tools and see if they are still in sync.

If You are curious I will post the results

Ed

I will try it when I am tracking next to use Low Latency. I will do a experiment I will lay some guitars down to a drum loop using LOW LATENCY MODE One with PDC On..... and try it OFF. Then transfer both to Pro Tools and see if they are still in sync.

 

If You are curious I will post the results

Ed

yeah please do, I'd like to see them!

I will try it when I am tracking next to use Low Latency. I will do a experiment I will lay some guitars down to a drum loop using LOW LATENCY MODE One with PDC On..... and try it OFF. Then transfer both to Pro Tools and see if they are still in sync.

 

If You are curious I will post the results

Ed

Yea, please do.

BTW, are you saying that you don't see/hear/have any problems until you go to PT?

So are your files Broadcast Wave w/ timestamp?

They should be the same in each DAW, if you use the timestamp, no?

Also, is this a measure-able amount each time? What are we talking in your situation? Samples or ms? ... drastically off?

I am having the same issue..... No they are not placed where they should be. Especially if you have to mix in another program all your live recordings will be out of place

 

I want to see how much it is compensating so I can off set it in my Mixing program... The All Mighty Pro Tools...

Another bad point about Protools.

The HD systems will do plugin compensation, but Le & M-Powered won't.

I found this out the hard way. Recorded a HUGE session at uni and used plugins. Took the session home, and then the Le warned me that it wouldn't do the compensation. So I had to manually re-align everything.

I hate Protools. Can't see what the fuss is about apart from the 48 bit mix engine and Beat Detective multitrack. Everything else sucks. Even their attitude to wannabe developers.

The Test results are in!!

The best way to record is with Low Latency on and the PDC on ALL. My results are very subtle but I think that is because I only had a few things going BFD and a SoundToys Crystalizer on the guitar. I zoomed in on the waveform so you can see incase you can't hear the difference. If this was a full session I'm sure it would be more drastic

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No "off" when recording, but set to "instruments and tracks". And set to "All" when not recording.

David,

Am I understanding this correctly:

Off = when recording audio without plugins

Instruments & Tracks = when recording logics virtual instruments & audio

ALL = playback without recording

And all of the above without using latency plugins like the adaptive mixer

Another bad point about Protools.

 

The HD systems will do plugin compensation, but Le & M-Powered won't.

Why would you record with the Delay Compensation on if you recorded on a HD system. Your engineer didn't know what he was doing. You can record with tons of Plugins and there is no latency on a HD system.

Sorry but if I had a LE system I would hate Pro Tools too. Logic is the best Native program out there.

Ed

Sorry I tried to add the audio but no luck I will try again

I will stuff them and try again

No "off" when recording, but set to "instruments and tracks". And set to "All" when not recording.

 

David,

Am I understanding this correctly:

Off = when recording audio without plugins

Instruments & Tracks = when recording logics virtual instruments & audio

ALL = playback without recording

 

And all of the above without using latency plugins like the adaptive mixer

I don't usually use Off.

Instrument & Tracks = when recording. You can (and most of the time you should) use the "Low Latency" mode to automatically bypass all latency inducing plug-ins while recording.

All = playback without recording like you say. Programming, editing, mixing etc.

I'll say it again.

If you are recording audio and you know how to monitor through your

interface, instead of using logics Software Monitoring, you are perfectly OK

with leaving PDC set to ALL and if you want you can also use a buffer of 1024.

The problem is when you want to record software instruments or if you want to

record audio that's being processed by Plug-Ins that you need to have for your

listening experience.

I know that David is a big fan of Software Monitoring and I think he uses it

exclusively, even when recording vocals. If you need to use Soft Mon for your

recording then set PDC to: Audio and Instrument Tracks, bypass plug-ins on

the recording track that induces latency. Do the same for latency-inducing

plug-ins on aux and output.

If you don't need Soft Mon but want to have some reverb in the cans you can

use the send on an input object and sent to a AUX with an inserted reverb.

Works beautifully.

Here is an example:

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=125403#125403

I always use software monitoring since L8, and don't seem to have any issues.

Eric B? Does the Low Latency Mode Button on the Transport bypass all the plug-ins you say to turn off when recording?

does this do the same things actually?

Ed, can you clarify my questions about what you observe in L8, as far as bad placement, and why/how it's shows up in PT?

also, are you using BW files as you file rec type?