fader8 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I've had a request to write up how to do tempo based vocal delay effects that can be prominent in the mix, yet not turn your vocals into total mush at the same time. This is an old and simple mixing technique and you'll recognize it from various pop songs from the eighties. Simply create a send on your audio track and go ahead and set it's send level to unity, (option-click the pot). Populate the aux return path with a Tape Delay or Delay Designer. Set this to full wet. In the slot after your delay plug, insert Logic's Compressor and set it's sidechain to the audio track that's sending to your delay bus. Set the compressor to a high ratio like 20:1 and a fast attack. As you've probably already figured out, the compressor will attenuate the delay signal when the vocal track is hot, but will allow the delay effect to just "sneak in" between words and in quieter passages. Thus keeping the main vocal signal clearer of interference from the delays. The interesting thing about this technique is that you really alter the musicality of the delay effect when changing the threshold and release settings of the compressor. So it can add another dimension of control to your delay effects. The attached Logic 8 project molests and victimizes the Irish lasses from the Apple Loops collection. Have fun, and keep mixing! f8_Delay_NoMush.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-m-m Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 cool ... never heard of this trick, but it makes sense ... thanx a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vovique Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Would never think of doing that - applying side chain compression to a delay! Thank you for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks! Excellent idea, I'll have to give it a shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkgross Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 VERY VERY cool. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoSatis Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks man. I look forward to your tips. They're gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbaraki Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thanks for that. I've played with delay stompboxes that have an internal ducking option but never thought to do it manually in Logic. It seems obvious now that you've pointed it out. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidgary73 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Thank you sir. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Project Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 This is a great effect. It's also really fun to do with Reverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majool Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 love it, thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayenex Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 killer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twjewett Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 insert Logic's Compressor and set it's sidechain to the audio track that's sending to your delay bus.Fader 8, how do you set the sidechain to the audio track that's going to the delay bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menych Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Wow It is really helpful And addictive I found myself listening to this track for about 10 minutes without stopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
route-electrique Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Great tip. So simple and effective, will definitely change my way of working with fx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckp Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 im using the waves r-comp which only allows busses and interfaces. So i routed the audio track to that then applied your technique.. Should work like this too right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darude Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I usually send the dry vocal to another bus as well, and use that as the trigger, not the audio track itself. The idea and advantage is that this way you can compress or brickwall-limit the trigger signal really harshly (because it's not heard), so that the trigger stays solid the whole duration of the vocal part (word/phrase) so the ducking won't "flutter" (attack/release values can be used to prevent this, too). Even if the dry vocal is levelled and compressed decently on the audio track and sounds great, the transients and amplitude differences can trigger the compressor unevenly, or fluctuations on longer notes might also result to uneven trigger and to the delay rising noticeably mid-word/phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I usually send the dry vocal to another bus as well, and use that as the trigger, not the audio track itself. The idea and advantage is that this way you can compress or brickwall-limit the trigger signal really harshly (because it's not heard), so that the trigger stays solid the whole duration of the vocal part (word/phrase) so the ducking won't "flutter" (attack/release values can be used to prevent this, too). Even if the dry vocal is levelled and compressed decently on the audio track and sounds great, the transients and amplitude differences can trigger the compressor unevenly, or fluctuations on longer notes might also result to uneven trigger and to the delay rising noticeably mid-word/phrase. Excellent point, darudevil, and illustrates a good use of the "Bus" channel object. By placing this sidechain processing directly on a bus object, you won't use up another precious aux channel, and yet another bus. The sidechain tap for a Bus channel object is directly post-insert. See THIS post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamthecrank Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hey Fader8, thank you for this tip! When you mention that we would be familiar with this sound from popular '80s songs, can you mention a few? I would love to hear it in context. Thanks! slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fader8 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 When you mention that we would be familiar with this sound from popular '80s songs, can you mention a few? I would love to hear it in context. Can't think of any specific tunes at the moment, but if I do I'll post them. There were at least a couple of rack delay units that were popular that had this feature built in. Some guitar pedals too. Although I can't recall the names of those either. Some of my brain cells from the eighties have a file corruption problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slamthecrank Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hah! Some of my brain-cells from the NINETIES are in the same boat... I totally understand. Thanks for commenting, though. Perhaps... was the Tear For Fears "Shout" verse vocal (after the initial chorus) was an example of this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgJbSyd9tTo I mean, the whole song is completely covered with effects, but I do sense this somewhat there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Excellent for reverb, too, and I'm assuming for all other FX, esp. for letting the vocal be really upfront and present and the FX nicely behind. Thank you. Exactly what I've been looking for. I've always been bothered by just putting reverbs on a vocal and being stuck with having to do the best with that mushy-ness, or spending way too much time trying to find the right one. With this technique I'm feeling way more in control to do the vox justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Lead vocals on Invisible Touch by Genesis. Christian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
route-electrique Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 There were at least a couple of rack delay units that were popular that had this feature built in. Some guitar pedals too. Cool, drop me a message if you happen to remember name of these hardware units . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dupree Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Cool Effect!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dupree Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Cool Effect!!!! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dupree Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Thanks alot for this trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre2hood Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 nice man this tip was really helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiralsurfer Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 This just solved all my vocal mixing problems, thanks I'd been wondering how I could get a decent amount of delay on without pushing the vocals too far back and this is definitely the best way to do it! Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeoff Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 Killer! doing a vocal session tonight, will try it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midischool Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Yeah, Sidechain delay is great fun. Works really well with saxophones too. Lovely drifting sound and changing emphasis. Great technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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