Does logic have anything like ableton's X Y axis controller?

I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about... A friend of mine with ableton blew my mind by showing me this handy little real time parameter controller device in ableton where you can drag the mouse around the axis and change two different aspects of the sound at once....does logic have anything like this?? Or are there any plugins out there that can do this kind of thing? It seems like something like that should be a must have for any DAW!

 

Thanks!

Yes, it's called the Vector Fader and is available in the Environment. Go to New > Fader > Vector and have fun.

 

Alan.

Thanks so much!

Hmm. Maybe I spoke too soon. I can't seem to figure out how to assign specific parameters to the fader's x and y axis....for example if I wanted to contol the delay with the X and echo with the Y or something like that. Furthermore, is it possible to actually use the vector fader as a trigger for the note on click? All I can do is make it change something that is already playing.. Thanks!

Rather than a longwinded written explanation I think you'd benefit from seeing the process in action. Steve Horelick is a regular contributor on this site and has produced some excellent video tutorials. I came across a short video of his some time ago where he demonstrated how to control 2 effects simultaneously with the vector fader.

 

Perhaps if your very polite and ask nicely Steve will post a link to that tutorial. In the meantime have a search on macprovideo.com and look for Steve's Tips 'n' Tricks videos.

 

Disclaimer: I have no connection to Macprovideo or Steve Horlick I'm just recommending them as a source of help. Anyway IIRC Steve’s video was a freebie.

 

HTH

Alan.

The tutorial where Steve H explores the vector fader in particular is The Logic 303: TNT (series 1)

http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/logicTipsAndTricks

It is specifically from June 2008 and is video no. 80 - Playable EQ.

 

Disclaimer: I DO have a connection to Macprovideo & I'm still recommending them as a source of help.

 

It's not a freebie - but IMHO the TNT series is very good value for money!

Well there you go, thanks RonnieEgg (I like the imagery of that name). I recalled seeing Steve doing a demonstration of the vector fader some time ago but I didn't pay for any tutorials hence my belief that it was a freebie. Anyway as I stated in another post he is very good, isn't he.

Yes indeed! Steve H is a master Logician and a master trainer/educator. IMHO he has an unnatural ease in being able to take the most intimidating of interfaces or complex of ideas and make it easy to understand

 

Yes indeed! Steve H is a master Logician and a master trainer/educator. IMHO he has an unnatural ease in being able to take the most intimidating of interfaces or complex of ideas and make it easy to understand

 

 

+1

+1

 

Just to put it in a nutshell...

 

Using the vector isn't terribly difficult, but you need to know a few things:

 

1) Once created, the vector "object" needs to be cabled to the instrument you want to affect.

 

2) In order to record the vector motion you need to assign the vector object to a new track. Just in case you're going right now, here's a little explanation --- the sound is always going to come from the instrument itself. But the data coming from this new source of control you're creating can't be recorded onto the instrument's track directly. So you will end up with two tracks: one for the instrument (which contains your regions of notes and whatever else, like realtime-played mod wheel, pitch bend etc.) and another on which you record the vector movements. Internally, the data from your "notes+controllers track" and the data from your vector track will be merged and both reach the instrument.

 

There is one exception to this two-track situation --- you can add an environment object that lets you write that data to the instrument track's automation without you needing to assign the vector directly to a track, but here I'm just trying to outline the basics.

 

3) The last part is that you need to find out what parameter(s) you need to transmit from the vector in order to affect the target synths. In pretty much every case, moving a Logic synth parameter generates "fader events". There are, for all intents and purposes, a MIDI CC event but specific to Logic. Like CC's, fader events have three parts: channel, data, and value.

 

So how do you find out what the fader events are for any particular parameter? It's pretty easy...

 

1) enable automation

2) enable plugin automation (prefs)

3) set up a key command to view the Automation Event List

4) put your instrument track in Touch mode and open the GUI on the plugin

5) start moving a control

6) stop playback and open the Automation Event List --- there you will see the fader events. Make note of the data you see, i.e.,

 

Fader 2  20  127

 

From that info, you'll program an axis on the vector to output that fader event.

 

Note that the MIDI channel of fader events may not match the MIDI channel of your synth, and that's OK, but you need to maintain the channel of the fader events when you program your vector axis with that info.

 

So those are some basics. HTH

Edited February 15, 2009 by ski

Thanks guys! : )

Hi..Actually no Logic doesn't have an easy to use vector item such as Live does..It is archaic at best..Laborious and once again ridiculous that at this point in time Logic offers nothing in regards to ease of use in this regard..The enviroment is in my opinion a thing that needs to be lost..It for the most part is the way it is anyway..It is 2009..Time for the fellows programing this thing to wake up and step up to the plate..It has been way to long..And not much to show on thier part..Honestly..JON

I'd be curious to know how easy this is to do in LIve. For example, is this something you can easily apply to any synth plug? Or is there kind of a free-standing vector utility that you can apply to any synth plug?

 

Also, on the Logic front there is a built-in X/Y function built right into ES2. FWIW...

I'd be curious to know how easy this is to do in LIve. For example, is this something you can easily apply to any synth plug? Or is there kind of a free-standing vector utility that you can apply to any synth plug?

 

Hey ski!

Live's XY controller appears as an option for each plug-in you instantiate. It can only control 2 of that plugs parameters at a time. It can only control parameters for that plug only and not multiple plugs. The control can not be scaled, curved or limited. You cannot bang it from other control devices and you cannot assign different cc's to control it externally, you have to use the assignments for the plug-in. It will draw automation though.

 

Detailed MIDI processing has never been one of Live's strong points. That's one of the reasons they are partnering with cycling74 to include a version of Max integrated into Live. This will provide advanced object oriented programming, much like Logic's environment, except an order of magnitude harder to learn!

 

The really cool thing is that you will be able to create Max patches and use them like plug-ins within Live. That's what I've always said Logic's environment should do better, ie be able to dial in an environment macro like a plug-in on a MIDI channelstrip.

 

But yeah, to answer your question, Live's XY control doesn't hold a candle to Logic's vector controller. And if you think people complain about learning to use the environment on Logic forums, just wait til all those Live users are faced with learning Max! The good news is that it will absolutely be "the s#!+" for live performance control. I'm looking forward to playing with it, but then I'm already a Max user.

Hi fader8!

 

Thanks for your detailed reply.

 

By later tonight I should be finished with an environment that has a Vector with a learn function for both X and Y. All that you'll need to do is hit a "learn X" button, click a control on the synth, and the Vector will learn that parameter. Same for Y. Say tuned!

 

-=sKi=-

Hi SKI..Definately staying tuned..LOL...I wish this stuff were made easy for more than just myself..Although the enviroment is very powerful..I feel it has become just to a degree onbsolete in many ways..Perhaps it need a revamp ?? Or perhaps it needs to go away so that other ways of working can become avaiable..JON

Friendly Environment

 

This link will take you to a dumb, goofy, vulgar video that show a real quick way to get the Vector thingy going as well.

 

If you are interested.

 

Take care & have fun!

Hi SKI..Definately staying tuned..LOL...I wish this stuff were made easy for more than just myself..Although the enviroment is very powerful..I feel it has become just to a degree onbsolete in many ways..Perhaps it need a revamp ?? Or perhaps it needs to go away so that other ways of working can become avaiable..JON

 

Definitely in need of a re-vamp, no question.

 

Keep on stayin' tuned LOL!!

 

[EDITED AND UPDATED]

 

OK Guys, here's a preliminary version of my Programmable Vector. Play with it, see what you think. BTW, this one will write your vector movements directly to track automation. And this programming, bundled into what's called a "macro", should work with any Logic synth plugin. The attached file is set up to work with an ESE. I've tested it with ES1, ES2, and various other synths and it seems to work just fine. Please report any problems.

 

Instructions for adding this to your songs:

 

1. Select the macro and the transformer called "Write Automation" and CMD-C Copy

2. In your song, CMD-V Paste into your instruments layer (or wherever your instruments live in the Environment)

3. Cable the output of the instrument to the vector

4. Cable the output of the transformer back to the instrument

 

General Operation (in any song, including the attached file)

 

5. Turn on the "Learn X" button and then click (or move) a parameter on the synth's GUI. Clicking might be preferred, though, if you don't want to disturb your currently-set parameters. Then, turn off the "Learn X" button.

 

6. Repeat for "Learn Y".

 

Either X or Y can be re-programmed at any time. I'm hoping to be able to cause the Learn buttons to turn off automatically once you select a parameter so that it behaves a la the learn function for Quick Access automation.

 

Note: I've programmed this without listening to any audio (I'm away from my studio at the moment). I have no idea what the sound on the ESE is like, but still I think this should all work. Lemme know...

Vector Ski 0.1.logic.zip

Edited February 15, 2009 by ski

Cool

Hey Ski,

 

Awesome Vector Macro. I love the way you used Meta data to capture and program the fader input data.

 

 

I made a couple of modifications to make it easier to comprehend for those who want to dig in.

 

1. Instead of combining the "input fader data" with the "switch/control data" at the onset, I've wired them up differently and separated them to help make the signal flow a bit more transparent.

 

2. Also, I deleted your inverting transformer and substituted it with an output to "nowhere" monitor object. Which, IMHO is a bit clearer indication of what is actually being accomplished.

 

3. I labeled and colored the objects and cables to reflect their functionality.

 

Hope you don't mind!

 

Thanks for the inspiration!! You rock!

 

Steve

Programmable Vector.logic.zip

Ha Steve, I should of waited. But that's OK. Here's my modification to ski's macro. It's just output processing so it could easily be pasted on to Steve's too.

 

For each axis there are now 7 different exponential sensitivity curves you can select from the X or Y menus. An invaluable addition because some parameter are just "too much".

 

OK, now we need to knobs per axis to set the min and max for each vector axis. Who's gonna take a crack at it?

Vector Ski-f8 0.2.logic.zip

Oops, forgot the pic. Looks like this:

Hey Steve and Fader8,

 

Really glad to see you guys digging in, thanks so much! I'll be peeking under the hood later tonight to see what you guys have done.

Cool. I'm adding my stuff to Steve's and going for some scaling controls too!

I agree - that is very, very hip.

Thanks for that, Ski.

Steve,

 

[ Looks around, admiring the decor... ]

I like what you've done to the place!

 

Fader8,

 

As you're modifying Steve's version, I'd like to suggest one slight add'l modification --- replace his "X and Y" ornament with a transformer set up as in the screencap below. This lil' move will filter out unneeded CC data generated by the vector itself, resulting in an output that contains only fader events.

 

Again, thanks guys. It's very inspirational to me that you're taking time to add/improve this lil' scheme.

@ fader8 -- just saw what you've done to the place too Never used exponential before. Great stuff, nice work!

 

To everyone else who's investigating this... in case you're wondering why the "Write to Automation" transformer isn't included inside the macro, it's due to an apparent limitation in the Environment: if an "automation splitter" (the mode of that transformer) lives inside a macro, it cannot transmit the data it generates outside of that macro. I believe it was SteveH who brought this to light not that long ago, but it didn't register with me completely until now. Steve, thanks for planting the thought. It made debugging this thing much easier.

 

It would make for a much more elegant package to be able to include that transformer right inside the macro, but alas it must live as a straggler, outside of the macro.

Ok.. had some time... I modified my modification to include Fader8's modification and Ski's CC filter modification, AND, I added a little randomizer fader to spice things up a bit... remember, I'm an ol' Buchla guy! Check it out!

Programmable Vector 2.logic.zip

CC filter installed!

 

OK, here it is. The min and max controls were a bit of a pain, well the min anyway. But it works great! Try it out.

Vector ski-f8-steveH.logic.zip