| Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
Fred B
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 1004
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
 |
|
In Logic the usage of multitimbral plugins is generally problematic because midi controllers cc7 (volume) and cc10 (pan) are not sent into the plugin but used instead to control the output of the audio instrument. Consequently these controllers can not be used to control the individual midi channels of the plugin.
For multitimbral plugins with *multiple* audio output channels there is a general solution by controlling the individual output (aux) channels.
http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=3017
Of course this doesn't work for multitimbral plugins with *single* stereo output. The general solution/workaround is to use multiple instances. However, it defeats somehow the purpose of multitimbral plugins and may substantially increase cpu load.
Now I've found a general and efficient solution to this problem. The simple trick is to 'smuggle' cc7 and cc10 into the plugin as different controllers and remap to the original controllers within the plugin. In Logic it's easy to transform controllers but how to manage the remapping? For this we need to embed the plugin in some programmable environment like eg. Plogue Bidule. In fact, the Bidule AU plugin is itself an AU host and thus can be used as programmable realtime AU wrapper.
Sounds quite complicated but easy in practice. Bidule is a powerful graphical system with cabling facilities similar to Logic's environment. And no, I'm not related in any way to the company.
I've tested this method with DLSMusicDevice as plugin and mappings cc7<->cc8 and cc10<->cc9. It works perfectly. Note that the method can also be used for multitimbral plugins with multiple outputs (eg. Kontakt) in case you don't want to mess around with aux objects.
Any comments/questions are welcome. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 27978
Location: Valley Village, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
Cool, thanks a lot for sharing your solution.
I'd love to see it but unfortunately do not own Plogue, and now they don't let you download it for free anymore. 
Logic Pro 9.1 - Mac Pro 2x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon - OS 10.5.8- 6 GB RAM - Metric Halo ULN2 - Apogee Duet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bpoc
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Gatineau, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
Is there other software that can be used to configure multitimbral plugins (like NI Bandstand) besides Plogue?
Paul |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred B
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 1004
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
No, I don't think so. Note that the software must operate as plugin AND host at the same time.
That's in fact an outstanding feature of Plogue Bidule. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 27978
Location: Valley Village, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
I moved this thread to the Tips and Tricks section.
Logic Pro 9.1 - Mac Pro 2x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon - OS 10.5.8- 6 GB RAM - Metric Halo ULN2 - Apogee Duet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bpoc
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Gatineau, Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
Perhaps it's time to take a step back. I purchased NI Banstand because I was led to believe it would be an easy way (like Roland's VSC on the PC) to create "respectable" sounding MIDI files. Bandstand's 2.5GB of sounds have inconsistent sound quality but more importantly it does not operate under Intel Mac. (This will hopefully soon change.) When it does , it does not operate multitimbrally. (Vol, Pan, etc, get sent to main output of plugin.)
I am new to the MAC. What is the easiest way to produce good sounding midi files quickly on the MAC preferable under Logic? (short of creating separate instances of plugins for each track)
By the way, Plogue is available as a demo on their site:
http://www.plogue.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=31&func=selectcat&cat=1
Is there a "step-by-step" walk-thru to using Plogue with Logic 7.2?
Cheers
Paul |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred B
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 1004
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
The only easy way I know to play MIDI files with Logic (ie. without external device) is to use Apple's Quicktime.
Regarding Plogue it should be noted that the demo is available only for the standalone version. But my "solution" requires the Bidule AU plugin. It can be used in Logic like any other AU plugin. However, to implement my tricky solution you need some good knowledge of Logic's environment as well as Bidule's programming concept. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 27978
Location: Valley Village, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
| Fred B wrote: | | The only easy way I know to play MIDI files with Logic (ie. without external device) is to use Apple's Quicktime. |
Well, you can also obviously use any of the bundled virtual instruments that come with Logic. A quickly thrown together collection of EXS24s is going to give you a much better result than the Quicktime instrument.
Logic Pro 9.1 - Mac Pro 2x 2.8 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon - OS 10.5.8- 6 GB RAM - Metric Halo ULN2 - Apogee Duet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred B
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 1004
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
| Yes and no. You can set up EXS for playing specific MIDI files but not for arbitrary ones, in particular for those with midstream program changes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kouly
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 235
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: : Multitimbral plugins with single stereo output |
|
|
| bpoc wrote: | Perhaps it's time to take a step back. I purchased NI Banstand because I was led to believe it would be an easy way (like Roland's VSC on the PC) to create "respectable" sounding MIDI files... What is the easiest way to produce good sounding midi files quickly on the MAC preferable under Logic? (short of creating separate instances of plugins for each track)
Cheers
Paul |
I am puzzeled by this post. First it may just be the terminology used but you cannot "create a respectable sounding midi file". Midi files in themselves have no sound they are just instructions on how to play a piece of music.The same midi file will sound different on different systems. To get a midi file to sound respectable on your system you need respectable instruments to play it. Now, any of Logics instruments are respectable if not better. There is nothing wrong with putting seperate instances of a plug on each track unless you are worried about proccesor power. You can get around this by freezing that track thus reducing the load on the processor. Other than the DLS music device which is GM (ie not respectable) you will need a multi channel tone generator which is not available in logic. If you have a keyboard with one and you like its sounds you could try that. Any program change in a midi file is not going to translate
well unless 1. You have the exact same instrument that was used when the programmer put the change in or 2. It is a GM program change and in this case you could probably do better than whatever this instrument is anyway.Yes you could be lazy and put a DLS music device in but the result will not sound as good as putting in one of logics instruments and taking some time to find some patches that in the end will sound better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
