Problems Slicing Regions Accurately

I've been using Logic 8 for about three months and I'm sure this problem I'm having is something I'm doing wrong.

 

When slicing audio in full zoom in my arrangement window, for some reason the cuts randomly will not line up exactly to the marker I've set my slice at. I've used the scissors tool, cut with locators, cut with the playhead. Sometimes I won't have this problem and it will cut on the designated line. But most of the time it's slightly to the left or the right. This is a real problem for me, and I don't want to have to go back to garageband to edit audio or to make my loops.

 

Is there something in my settings that could be changed so I can make the thing cut regions where I tell it to? I'm beginning to think this is a bug.

Sounds to me like you've got search for zero crossings on - Logic is automatically shifting your cuts to ensure that the audio contains no pops or clicks.

 

Look it up in Help and it'll tell you how to turn it off

Ok, thank you, I figured it was something simple. I'll give it a shot.

Nope,, Just tried turning off search for zero crossings, it wasn't turned on, and it's still doing it. I put the play head directly on the line, hit slice, and it leaves a bit hanging over. Some audios don't do this, but a lot of them do. I can't figure out why it would be picky about certain audio regions.

This has got to be a bug. What good is recording audio if it doesn't let you cut regions where you want to? I haven't seen anyone online with this problem, and I've been looking for a while. Just trying to slice things up is making me want to pull my hair out. Sometimes if I change the tempo in the global track, it will let me cut things evenly, but what use is that? Also, it won't allow me to nudge the regions up to lines. I've messed with the smart snapping over and over and nothing makes a difference. It's always slightly over the line or in front of it. I'm beginning to hate this program.

I've been through this a lot on projects - I'm certain it's a bug. It may well have been reported over in the bugs forum on this site.

Any advice on how to take care of it? Any workarounds? If you could post a link from one of the other forums, that would be much appreciated, because I've gone through that whole section, and couldn't find a one.

 

I've googled over and over, and it doesn't seem to be a common problem. There's something not right though. There's no way this could be the way Logic is supposed to deal with audio. Right now I've having to bounce my midi parts to garageband and edit/splice the audio parts I've created there so I get precise patterns. As cool as logic is, I shouldn't have to resort to this.

I guess nobody wants to touch this one?

I've had this but very rarely. At least for me when it happened I was able to get good slices with the playhead when the scissors tool wouldn't cut it. Sounds like it's annoyingly frequent for you.

 

Here's a long shot.... have you repaired permissions lately? Occasionally I'll have weird unexplainable stuff going on in Logic and sometimes just doing a Repair Permissions via my Mac's Disc Utility sets things to rights.

You could do the same edits in the sample editor. No problems there to do what you're doing.

I'll try the repair permissions. Thanks.

 

I've tried doing my edits in the sampler as well, it was something I went directly to when trying to deal with this problem. It does the same thing, it leaves my region in the same state as if I were cutting with the locators or the playhead. It's like Logic is not reading the grid properly or something. Seems like a small problem, but when you're dealing with sequencing it's a major issue, at least for me. This is version 8? Man, you'd figure they'd get it sorted out by now. It must've been hell trying to use previous versions. Apple needs a patch for this.

 

Yeah, it does this to me all the time, and I freak out, throwing mini temper tantrums because of it. heh heh.

I don't remember have problems in the sample editor - not to say they don't exist.

 

You've defeat snap to zero crossing there as well?

Yeah, that function was never turned on. When you zoom in all the way the amount is so fractional that it's probably something you would never hear, but I'm a bit anal retentive about things lining up. I've only had Logic for about 3 months but I don't know if they have phone in tech support. Looks like they just send you to a website. Which is something I'm already doing here. I wish a moderator or 'Pro' would address this issue. If this is a bug, it's something Apple needs to fix. I'll take a screen shot of what it looks like in the sample editor and the arrangement window. Appreciate the feedback though.

Be sure you are not working with an apple loop, or any other loop formatted file, eg Acid Loop, etc.

 

Is this the behaviour you're referring to? Shown below is a "Split by Playhead" function with the arrange zoomed all the way in.

This is it, Yes, Looks like the same thing. And I've tested them. I've made recorded copies of the loop, just to make sure it wasn't a loop, and the same thing happens with that audio. Yes, it looks like that picture. This is what it looks like on my end In the sampler and the arrange window

 

first, Sampler

 

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/porkloaf/SampleEditorcopy.jpg?t=1246198469

 

 

Then The Arrange Page.

 

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/porkloaf/Arrangecopy.jpg?t=1246198491

 

It does this if I split by playhead, locators, scissors, or make an edit in the sampler. I'm not working on a loop.

OK. Keep in mind that Logic has to work with two separate timebases, sample clock and tick. At full zoom when you move the playhead in the arrange, it is moving/incrementing by tick. That exact tick division may not always, and depending on your tempo maybe never, match up to a sample clock division.

 

An audio region is still audio, so it cannot be edited to any smaller division than its sample rate. It has to be cut at either the previous sample or the next sample if the tick value happens to land in between two sample positions. So this is normal, and unlike some editors, like Garageband perhaps, Logic doesn't "fudge" the display, it's just showing you exactly what's going on.

 

If you were working with a 96k sample rate file in a slow tempo song, this would not be as noticeable as it would be in a 44.1 file in a fast tempo song.

 

The arrange must keep everything organized by tempo ticks. The only way to edit an audio file precisely in the arrange is if the sample rate and the tick value were the same. But that's not very practical. If you want to have the region start to display at a particular bar/beat value, place the playhead there, select the region and use the Pickup Clock command.

 

FYI, notice that the arrange scales differently at full zoom when you toggle the ruler display between bar and time.

Well that's funny, considering it also does this in regions that I've created that have absolutely no audio in them.

 

I'll have the beginning of the audio region flush to one marker, try to make a cut, and bam, same stupid cut to the left or right of the tick mark. This doesn't make sense.

 

 

Also, Like I said before, it's doing it in the sampler as well.

Well that's funny, considering it also does this in regions that I've created that have absolutely no audio in them.

An audio region is an audio region whether it's silent or not. It still has a sample rate.

 

Also, Like I said before, it's doing it in the sampler as well.

You haven't described the sample editor operation you're performing. Selection in the sample editor is to the sample.

 

It might help if you told us what the tempo and sample rate of your project is. What do you ultimately want to achieve? Are you trying to slice a region to make a loop? Obviously if the timing/length of a region falls between 2 samples, something has to give, right?

In the sampler I'm just dragging the region until I get to a particular line so I get a region that sits flush with it. It's not doing that. I'm in a file that's set at 130 tempo. Also it won't allow me to sit the playhead directly on markers so it lines up perfectly in a lot of cases. All I'm trying to do is cut audio at specified points relating to the grid in Logic. I don't know why that needs to be so weird? I'm just slicing audio, and it's not cutting where I tell it to cut. If this is normal, and you looped something like this, wouldn't it eventually go out of synch if it doesn't align evenly with markers?

 

I've told you what I want to achieve and put pictures up. I want to cut an audio region where I tell it to. It's not doing that.

In the sampler I'm just dragging the region until I get to a particular line so I get a region that sits flush with it.

This is unclear. You cannot "drag" a region in the sample editor. Also, be wary of the anchor position and the "Compensate Region Position" settings.

 

Also it won't allow me to sit the playhead directly on markers so it lines up perfectly in a lot of cases.

Be sure "Snap to Absolute Value" is enabled.

 

All I'm trying to do is cut audio at specified points relating to the grid in Logic. I don't know why that needs to be so weird? I'm just slicing audio, and it's not cutting where I tell it to cut. If this is normal, and you looped something like this, wouldn't it eventually go out of synch if it doesn't align evenly with markers?

 

You're working at full zoom, so the difference between tick positions and sample positions is going to be noticeable. I suggest you take some time to understand the snap settings, the anchor relationship, etc., and the use of the Pickup Clock command. As far as looping goes, that's done in the arrange anyway, so it will always reference tick positions.

Ok, when I'm in the sampler, I am HIGHLIGHTING the region I want to create. With my anchor point flush to a main divider.

 

I've tried every single possible snapping function. I've already indicated that previously in the thread. It still doesn't work. I've tried snap automation, ticks, frames, beats, all that stuff, I've tried turning it off and on, in different combinations, most of the time, even when changing the tempo it still doesn't cut accurately.

 

I've fiddled with this thing for weeks before posting here, because I figured it was something I was doing wrong. It's becoming pretty clear to me, this is a bug, or just bad design.

 

Also , that pick up clock command,, all that does is align your region to a playhead. What good is that if I can't even get my playhead to snap to a particular divider? I've got the front of my region already flush to a division.

Try this and tell me if it works.

 

First, in the sample editors Edit menu, make absolutely sure "Compensate Region Position" is unchecked.

 

Load up an audio file. In the sample editor drag a selection that you want your audio region to consist of. Choose the "Selection -> Region" command in the sample editor. The region appears in the arrange and the sample editor now shows the region bar and anchor. Check that the anchor is slid all the way left to the beginning of the region.

 

Move the arrange playhead to the position you want. If your division setting is set high, eg /192, it can be hard to get right on the beat. Set the division to /4 or something. Or, use the Go To command.

 

Select the region you created in the first step and use the Pickup Clock command. When you zoom in on the playhead/start of region, are they exactly aligned?

Thank you, I'll give this a try. I'll let you know what happens.

Ok, I did everything you said to do. It's still not lining up. I understand the snap function, I understand the anchor points in the sampler, I understand how to highlight a region, I understand how to use my playhead. All that pick up clock command does is move a region to where you set your playhead. I don't need that, I've got my region flush to the designated line I want the sample to start in the arrange window, and inside the sampler. Here are pictures of what is happening.

 

This is what the left side, or beginning of the sample looks like in the sample editor, if you'll notice the part that is highlighted is lined up directly with the blue region mark, not a problem, this is what I get in my arrange window as well.

 

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/porkloaf/LeftsideEditor.jpg

 

This is what the end of the sample looks like inside the sample editor. The highlighted portion doesn't line up with the blue region, It won't let me do it.

 

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/porkloaf/RightSideSampler.jpg

 

This is what the beginning of the region looks like in my arrange window. Looks fine.

 

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/porkloaf/LeftsideArrangement.jpg

 

This is what I get at the end of my sample....... Cutting it with all the cut tools in the arrange window does the same thing, even when I have the playhead, locators perfectly aligned. But this, is what I also get from the sampler.

 

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/porkloaf/RightSideArrangement2.jpg

 

 

I did everything you said. It still doesn't line up. It's making weird cuts, and editing in the sampler is no different.

It would appear that you are trying to edit by bars and beats in the sample editor. The sample editor doesn't really know jack about bars and beats. The ruler there is only a reference to help you move the anchor. It only understands samples. Your selection in the sample editor cannot snap to a bar, beat or division line.

 

Once your selection is "regionized" and in the arrange, you can work with it in bar or beat or tick values, etc. As I mentioned previously, sample count may not mathematically agree with tick count for a region you create. If you're working with a low sample rate like 44.1k, then this can be more apparent at full zoom settings.

 

So you need to "postprocess" the region in the arrange if you really care about the end of the region landing on a beat/division/tick. In many cases this simply doesn't matter, but we'd need to know what it is you're trying to achieve musically/technically. Do you just need to loop this in this song? Are you making Apple Loops? Are you making generic loops for someone with Acid, or where you need to specify the exact tempo of the material?

 

If you're making loops from an audio file of unknown tempo, you'd select N bars of the material by ear in the sample editor, make it a region and adjust the arrange tempo to match it. Knowing what you're trying to ultimately achieve would go a long way in helping you do what's needed.

 

Because of the difference in sample count vs. tick count, etc., sometimes a bit of fine tuning is needed in the arrange to get things perfect, (if perfect is needed. It usually isn't). See the below example.

That's the thing, I just want the region to line up, that's it. I've tried dragging the region to resize it . It won't let me move the region evenly right up to the line. I don't know how to be any more clear about what is happening. I've done all of these things you're telling me.

 

Even when using the snapping function, it won't let me do it. But, I'll try it again and let you know.

 

I appreciate the effort you're making though.

 

Yes, I want them to line up so I can loop it.

Ok, resizing the region is moving my stuff to the same inaccurate place. It doesn't matter what snapping function I use. Everything you are telling me to do, I've done over and over. There is something wrong with this program. THIS IS A BUG.

THIS IS A BUG.

 

A bug is something that happens to everyone. If you can't trim or resize a region to a division in the arrange, then perhaps something's gone wonky with that song file, or perhaps your preferences. It's certainly do-able here.

 

Try dragging your Logic pref file to the desktop and restarting Logic. Start a new project from a Logic 8 included template, the empty one. If you like, I'll upload an audio file you can use and you can post the project file here after you've tried things. That's easier than swapping screenshots.

Well yeah, that's why it's weird, I don't see people with this problem online, but it happens to me all the time. I've opened countless new arrangement files, and this keeps happening. Could it be bugs pop up that haven't necessarily been reported on, maybe only occurring in a few products? Whatever it is, I'm positive it's not user error, this is an issue with Logic. I'll be willing to bet this problem comes up for more users than just myself. But I appreciate the help regardless. I guess when I have audio that I want to repeat, I'll just copy and paste. When I want to build loops I'll use garageband. Oh well, at least logic is good with midi.

.

 

Shown below is a "Split by Playhead" function with the arrange zoomed all the way in.

 

This is absolutely IMHO opinion the most accurate way to CUT any Region, Audio or Midi

 

Fagabeefy it is not clear to me that you have actually tried this.

 

 

You need to set up the Key Command and it works very accurate and perfectly

 

M S