Transposition in Inspector - where's the logic? [SOLVED]

Sometimes I use the transposition setting in the Inspector to play lower octaves than are available on my 61 note keyboard. Yes, I can change that via the controller itself but it's a PITA since it only can do that via semitone increment. Much faster to flip the octave down in the inspector.

But what I've noticed is that it only works for some instruments some of the time and I can't figure out what the deciding factor is. So it will work fine for the EVP but then not for the EXS (except maybe sometimes.) It usually works everytime for a multi-instrument Kontakt instance.

How can I make this work consistently?

There are two places in the inspector where you can transpose. And then there's the thru instrument... The combination of the three can be confusing:

Load up an EXS into a new track. Don't record anything, just follow me here...

• If you have no regions selected (or none exist, as with your new track), the transpose feature in the upper part of the Inspector -- as well as all of the other realtime parameters in that section -- control the "thru instrument". The thru instrument ('TI' for short) is actually just a set of realtime parameters that affect the tranposition (and other parameters, like velocity) of incoming MIDI. The sound will be that of whatever instrument is selected.

There is only ever one set of TI parameters. They are set, generally, by clicking on the background of the arrange area so that no regions are selected. If you look in the upper part of the Inspector you'll see "MIDI Thru".

Now load up an EVP on a new track. Don't record anything.

• alter the transposition parameter to -12 (this is the TI's thru parameter). Now switch between the EVP and EXS. Note that they both play down an octave. This is the desired behavior. Whichever instrument you have selected will be affected by the TI parameters because the TI parameters are used to alter incoming MIDI data.

• record something on the EVP track and then select the region. Note that the realtime parameters in the Inspector now show their settings for that region, and that the region's transpose parameter assumes that of the thru instrument.

• Set the EVP's region to a transposition of +12. It now plays up an octave because you've altered the region's r/t parameters. Click on the background of the arrange area again and you'll see the thru instrument parameter of -12.

So basically, the thru instrument's parameter for transpose is where you want to set your offset of -1 octave to bring your 61-note keyboard down the octave. But you have to make a point of clicking on the background to make (or change) that setting.

So far we've covered the TI's realtime transpose setting and an individual region's transpose setting. There's one other place you can transpose, and that's the instrument itself:

Select the EXS track and, if necessary, open the disclosure triangle for the middle section in the Inspector -- the instrument parameters. Set that transpose down -24. Play on the keyboard and you'll hear that sound down three octaves! This is because you've transposed the entire instrument down 2 octaves, plus, you're working with the TI transpose setting of 1 octave down as well.

Hope that makes sense.

Remember that with an instrument track highlighted the transposition will be set for that instrument.

If you want all instruments to be transposed then deselect all tracks so that the transposition (or velocity or key range) that you set will be globally set for all future tracks.

Like many things in Logic it's illogical at first but once you figure it out it can be quite useful.

A

Remember that with an instrument track highlighted the transposition will be set for that instrument.

 

If you want all instruments to be transposed then deselect all tracks so that the transposition (or velocity or key range) that you set will be globally set for all future tracks.

 

Like many things in Logic it's illogical at first but once you figure it out it can be quite useful.

 

A

Amin, I think you know exactly what you mean, but the way you write it makes it confusing. Maybe it's the teacher in me being anal on proper use of terminology.

There are TWO transposition parameters: one for regions, and one for the track/instrument. The region parameter depends on the selected region(s) and offers a "MIDI Thru" parameters when no regions are selected.The MIDI Thru parameters are applied to any new regions you record, independently of what track you're recording those regions onto. The track parameter depends on the selected track. You cannot "deselect all tracks", as Logic always has one track selected.

Thanks David. You are a kind Jedi. My apologies.

A

• alter the transposition parameter to -12 (this is the TI's thru parameter). Now switch between the EVP and EXS. Note that they both play down an octave. This is the desired behavior. Whichever instrument you have selected will be affected by the TI parameters because the TI parameters are used to alter incoming MIDI data.

 

• record something on the EVP track and then select the region. Note that the realtime parameters in the Inspector now show their settings for that REGION -- transposition of zero. Now click on the background of the arrange area and you'll see the transpose change to -12 (and the title of that section change to "MIDI Thru". This is the thru instrument setting once again.

I'm not getting that behaviour here.

If I set Transpose to -12 for Midi Thru and then record a new region, the Inspector shows the new region's Transposition to be -12, as well. Not zero.

If I set Transpose to -12 for Midi Thru and then record a new region, the Inspector shows the new region's Transposition to be -12, as well. Not zero.

That's correct. The MIDI Thru parameters are automatically applied to any new region you record.

Tankfield,

You quoted two points from my post and said you're not getting that behavior. My bad on the second point (I've since corrected my post). But what about the first point? Are you not getting that behavior either?

Tankfield,

 

You quoted two points from my post and said you're not getting that behavior. My bad on the second point (I've since corrected my post). But what about the first point? Are you not getting that behavior either?

Sorry I wasn't very clear. Yes, that bit works as described. I just included it in the quote to confirm I had followed that step before I recorded a new region.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I should have pointed out that I knew how the Thru parameter worked. It's just that it isn't working in one particular case and I think I now know what that might be. Turns out that if I load something like "Escape D Orchestral Kit" from the loop browser that the resulting Drum Kits plug-in negates the Transposition settings. It will work IF thru transpose is set up before loading the kit but as soon as I change the setting it will no longer work for that kit.

Even changing the Drum Kit plug to an EXS doesn't help either. However, if I first load an EXS and then load the EXS Orchestral kit, the thru transposition parameter works fine every time.

But wait! There's more! If I decide to completely remove the Drum Kit plug OR it's replacer EXS and then load, say, an EVD6 that too will refuse to follow any changes in the thru transpostition. The Drum Kit plug spoils it for any other subsequent plug on that track. I can still get the transpose function to work on other tracks even while that track doesn't work. There may be a logic to this but at this point I'm calling it a bug.

Ski, thanks for reminding me that I can use the EXS's own transposition setting to accomplish what I need for that instrument.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I should have pointed out that I knew how the Thru parameter worked. It's just that it isn't working in one particular case and I think I now know what that might be. Turns out that if I load something like "Escape D Orchestral Kit" from the loop browser ...

The MIDI Thru parameter does not apply to things you import from any browser, only to new regions you record. From the behavior you describe it appears you're not talking about the MIDI Thru settings. You must be talking about another parameter - the track parameters? The global transposition track? Not sure...

I'm referring to what happens when you click on the background of the arrange before setting the transposition parameter as Ski mentions here:

There is only ever one set of TI parameters. They are set, generally, by clicking on the background of the arrange area so that no regions are selected. If you look in the upper part of the Inspector you'll see "MIDI Thru".

I'm not actually wanting this to apply to stuff from the browser but rather to the instrument plug itself. What seems to be happening is that once a Logic "Drum Kit" plug-in is loaded, then it's game over for transposition to work on the input to that track, with the exception of when transposition is set previously to the Drum Kit being inserted. Then it will transpose the played input of the Drum Kit plugin but as soon as the Transpostition parameter is changed (assuming a background click on the Arrange first) then it no longer functions for the Drum Kit plugin. Or for any other instrument that replaces the Drum Kit plugin on that track. At least that's the way it's looking from here.

OTOH, Transposition WILL continue to work on track inputs for other instruments, just not Drum Kit. And to be really clear here, what I mean is that if I knock down the "Arrange Transpose" setting 1 octave, I'll hear notes an octave lower from most instruments when I play my controller but the notes remain in the same octave with Drum Kit, regardless of which Transposition setting that I choose.

Bingo.

*smacks head*

David, once again you have simplified the tangled, distilled what was murky and unfazed the flumoxed. I can't believe how long I've put up with this mysteriously arbitrary "refuse transposition syndrome." Thanks!

PS - I also see that in a post a few entries back that I've fallen prey to the classic "It's a bug!" knee jerk reaction. The fact is, it was a misunderstood feature that I labeled a bug.

PS - I also see that in a post a few entries back that I've fallen prey to the classic "It's a bug!" knee jerk reaction. The fact is, it was a misunderstood feature that I labeled a bug.

Happens all the time around here!