jonnycreations

Yeah, good question! I took some time to iron out my solutions because I think this is going to be an issue that keeps coming up in my mixes. I'll share what I found below and look forward to hearing what y'all think. SHORT VERSION Generally, when I removed my side chains, my mix timing was a lot better. But since this isn't always ideal, I also found if I change my side chain triggers so the trigger was an individual track, not an aux/bus, that worked. Also, I sometimes used a Sample Delay to finish the job. DETAILED VERSION Here's what I was doing... I started with a dry mix with tracks perfectly in time. As I added processing, things started to get funky—mostly around the side chaining. I was using what I would describe as basic side chaining techniques: 1. ISSUE: Kick was ahead of the beat SOURCE OF ISSUE: Side chained the "Bass Bus" (with 5 basses) to the "Kick Bus" (with 3 kicks) to duck the basses when the kicks occurred. SOLUTION: I changed the side chain trigger to an individual "ghost" track instead of the "Kick Bus." To create my ghost track, I bounced my 3 kicks into a new, combined audio file, inserted that into a new audio track, set that track to no output, and used that as the trigger in the side chain. 2. ISSUE: Vocals ahead of the beat SOURCE OF ISSUE: Side chained the "All Instrument Bus" to the "All Vocal Bus" to duck the instrumentation slightly when vocals occurred. SOLUTION: Same as #1 except I bounced my "All Vocal Bus" 3. ISSUE: Vocals still slightly ahead of the beat SOURCE OF ISSUE: (I think) Using an instance of Soothe2 to remove unwanted frequencies and Waves Vocal Rider to automate volume on every vocal track (8-10 LVs and 8 BVs) might be triggering cumulative issues. SOLUTION: Added Logic's stock Sample Delay plugin to the "All Vocal Bus" and used my ear to put everything back in time. --- Overall, it's worth looking closely at your side chains. I tested @talkbot's experiment from earlier in this thread (/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=135038&start=20#p712151) and would summarize it this way: SIDE CHAIN'S.... ...WILL WORK when an Individual Track is triggered by an Individual Track If Signal Flow is: Track 1 > Stereo Out Track 2 > Stereo Out Lin Phase is in Track 1 PDC... ...*works* when Compressor is in Track 1 > SC to Track 2 ...WILL WORK when an Individual Track is triggered by an Aux Track If Signal Flow is: Track 1 > Stereo Out Track 2 > Aux 2 via Bus 2 > Stereo Out Lin Phase in Aux 2 PDC... *works* when Compressor is in Track 1 > SC to Track 2 *works* when Compressor is in Track 1 > SC to Bus 2 ...CAN BREAK when an Individual Track is triggered by an Aux+Aux+etc Track (If side chaining to a secondary (or tertiary, etc) Aux that comes after the original Aux with a latency plugin) If Signal Flow is: Track 1 > Stereo Out Track 2 > Aux 2 via Bus 2 > Aux 3 via Bus 3 > Stereo Out Lin Phase in Aux 2 PDC... *works* when Compressor is in Track 1 > SC to Track 2 *works* when Compressor is in Track 1 > SC to Bus 2 *BREAKS* when Compressor in Track 1 > SC to Bus 3 ...CAN BREAK when an Aux Track is triggered by an Aux+Aux+etc — (If side chaining to a secondary (or tertiary, etc) Aux that comes after the original Aux with a latency plugin) If Signal Flow is: Track 1 > Aux 1 via Bus 1 > Stereo Out Track 2 > Aux 2 via Bus 2 > Aux 3 via Bus 3 > Stereo Out Lin Phase in Aux 2 PDC... *works* when Compressor is in Aux 1 > SC to Track 1 *works* when Compressor is in Aux 1 > SC to Track 2 *works* when Compressor is in Aux 1 > SC to Bus 2 *BREAKS* Compressor in Aux 1 > SC to Bus 3

Is there a way to calculate the cumulative latency effect per bus? I know you can find a plugin's latency by hovering over it, but I'm not sure it's as simple as adding all of those up—especially when automation is involved. My issue stems from having multiple individual vocal tracks with Soothe and Waves Vocal Rider written onto the tracks as automation going to a lead vocal Aux channel and that going to an All Vox Aux channel. I'm getting some delay. I'm currently offsetting it with Logic's stock Sample Delay plugin and using my ear to guess if it's in time.

I ran into PDC side chaining problem this week. I was searching for a reason as to why my tracks were suddenly out of sync after side chaining a compressor on the bass bus (with 5 basses) to the kick buss (with 3 kicks), side chaining a compressor on the instrumental bus to the vocal bus, and using some latency inducing plugins like Soothe2 on all of my individual vocal tracks. Just read through this whole thread and wow... am both frustrated and really grateful for how thoroughly this issue has been documented. Thank you all. I've reported the bug too to https://www.apple.com/feedback/logic-pro.html. It really seems like a fatal flaw. Are folks just not using side chains? Side chaining bass to the kick or side chaining instrumental bus to vocals feel like foundational functions... Just curious what people are doing to achieve this in light of this bug? Anyway, I'm trying to write out my understanding of the workarounds mentioned here and in other forums and wanted to share where I am. Would love any additional insights/modifications to this list: 1. DON'T USE SENDS ON AUX/SUMMING STACK (IF POSSIBLE) Ploki says he found if he refrains from using a send from an aux/summing stack, logic generally behaves viewtopic.php?f=42&t=135038&start=120#p814388 2. TRY USING INDIVIDUAL TRACKS INSTEAD OF BUSSES/AUX TRACKS (IF POSSIBLE) 3. TRY AVOIDING LATENCY-INDUCING PLUGINS IN THE AUX TRACKS (IF POSSIBLE) 4. TRY PUTTING LATENCY-INDUCING PLUGINS BEFORE SIDE CHAINED PLUGINS (IF POSSIBLE) en5ca's observation: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=135038&start=100#p800080 5. TRY USING DUPLICATE OR UNPROCESSED TRACKS AS A GHOST TRIGGER Create new track. Copy of the trigger track (i.e. Kick) and remove processing or import original unprocessed audio if receiving files from client. Mute it and name it in helpful way. When using side chaining, use this track as trigger. If needed: Audition the side chain track and the original trigger track solo'd and slide the trigger track forward until it hits with the original through the compressor plugin. 6. TRY USING BUS WITH SAMPLE DELAY AS A GHOST TRIGGER Suggested by StevenTOAST: viewtopic.php?f=42&start=20&t=135038&sid=88f2c4338e737b1ffd774b5a4cef9be2#p718622 Send the Trigger (i.e. Kick or Inst 1) to a bus, let's say Aux 1 Aux 1 settings: output=none, add a Sample Delay Send Aux 1 to Aux 2 Aux 2 settings: output=none Insert ducking compressor onto desired track, Side Chain to Aux 2 On compressor, switch the sidechain to "listen" and use the Sample Delay on Aux 1 to sync both clicks (original source kick and the one that passes through the sidechain path) Repeat later in the project, the latency will be different as we add plug-ins Don't forget to check the sync before rendering the final mix TIP: You can adjust the delay to feed the sidechain kick with few ms earlier, so the sound "pre"ducks - (He says "to be honest even if Apple will correct this, I will use the same method, I find this tip pretty awesome in getting a nice, bouncy, ducking." He usually make a group of 16 busses just for these chains. 7. TRY USING MIDI AS A GHOST TRIGGER Set up the Ghost Trigger (as described by ). Create a new software instrument track (this will not be heard, only read as a trigger for a compressor). Select Klopfgeist (Instrument > Utility > Klopfgeist) as the instrument because it uses almost no CPU. Add in MIDI notes (by drawing or copying from original MIDI) where you want the triggers to be (i.e. match the kick drum pattern). Change Output to a Bus. On chosen Bus, change Output to No Output. Add a Logic stock compressor to a track you want to trigger and select the chosen Bus as the side chain Input. Adjust parameters to taste. Set the delay of the ghost trigger to a positive value in the Inspector so it aligns again (as described by viewtopic.php?t=143422). This works because the sound coming through the Side Chain input is correct in the first place, it's just the compressor that gets triggered too early. Bonus: In addition to general Side Chain issues, can also be a way to automate a side chain. (i.e. If going for a pumping effect, the compressor is only triggered when there’s a MIDI note. If you want to not have the pumping effect for a section, delete MIDI notes.)