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studioj
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Yes thank you! It might be edge case for Logic users in general, but I promise it’s not edge at all in post / music workflows. the way this happens is a cue is rough mixed against dialogue and fx which can often be extremely dynamic… and then stems are created of that cue for reuse in other sections of a show or movie, and that’s the point when you might be working with very low level audio. In my first example that cymbal swipe was certainly not recorded that quietly originally, but ended up there during various exports in context. super common! But not so common when doing album / single type music production… also reiterating that even with audio that peaks at friendly comfortable places this shortcoming of logic makes it difficult to eyeball where content that swells in, actually starts to fade in. Eyeballing is important when working/ editing quickly. I would say not edge case! 🙂
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Just a reminder for anyone who sees this as an issue to submit feedback to apple through the Logic feedback form. You can even link to this thread. I imagine some dev might also have a similar reaction and think this is a gain staging issue who hasn't spent time in Pro Tools or worked with blending music to dialogue / sfx before ... or who doesn't regular receive elements from outside sources. and so more noise we can make the better I think. Thanks all!
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when working in very dynamic music styles like film music, -44dbfs is actually not very quiet! obv in more main stream beat driven styles that would not be the case. The problem is definitely Logic's waveform resolution, not gain staging. Funny point about the origins of audio editing though! reminds of that Louis CK bit about people complaining about not having wifi on some flights. 😄 "You're literally sitting in a chair flying through the sky":) despite it's shortcomings in other areas, in my humble opinion all DAWS should look to Pro Tools when working out audio related functionality, digidesign/avid just did all that stuff right decades ago.
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Yeah exactly! I would recommend getting Pro Tools going with something like Soundflow for automating tasks and setting up very useful macros etc... I've been able to get PT pretty close to the speed at which I can compose / produce in Logic using this and another app called "Patchboard". unfortunately these things are just more expenses added to the pile so may not be worth the trouble. But I see them as indispensable when writing music in PT.
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it is ever so slightly better in the audio editor but still not useful...I think the threshold is slightly lower for when the waveform disappears but not much. I agree that this is something fundamentally broken about Logic and a good example of why it remains predominantly a good "idea" tool, and less often seen as a pro level finishing tool. @sol197 I would recommend taking the approach of seeing Logic as just another hammer in your toolbelt. I move between it and pro tools frequently when possible aiming for the strengths of each. I love the speed at which I can kick out new ideas in logic, but it starts to show cracks when getting into finishing process and needing more professional level functions. That's not to say there are generally workarounds for everything, but if you're familiar with other ways of doing things it can get aggravating at times. I do hope this is something they address at some point, but I fear as this has been a thing with logic for so long, it's likely embedded deep into very old code. but that is just speculation.
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I hear you, but I think there is something going on in the live real time rendering of audio that is subtly different between software. If they all did exactly the same thing all the time, wouldn't it affect our systems the same way as well? And I am quite certain Logic is more efficient with processing than other DAWs when using the same plugins. I realize you're talking about real time bounce vs offline, but that's not quite what I'm saying... I acknowledge that the bounce, whether it is offline or real time will be identical (ideally). considering people like Zimmer and Ryan Tedder are making similar judgments, I don't think this is something to discount. But I also don't think it has real world implications / consequences.
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studioj started following Library Browser Lag Issue: Logic 10.8 vs. 10.5.1 , Does Pro Tools sound better than Logic? , flex pitch glitch and 2 others
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fwiw, as someone who has been moving between PT and Logic regularly for over 2 decades, I have thought from maybe Pro Tools 8 or so, that Pro Tools sounded "better" than Logic on playback. While the two tools can provide identical math in the way they sum signals and export audio files that will null, I think the live playback between the two environments is subtly different... Logic somehow feeling a little edgier and thinner to put it simply. 20 years ago I used to think the same between Logic and DP, that DP had better depth and imaging. That being said it was never a difference great enough that kept me from using Logic and I think killer sounding results can be had with all these platforms. Sometime in the last decade I recall reading Hans Zimmer saying something similar about Logic as compared to Cubase. Maybe it's all psychoacoustic, hard to know since I've never done any scientific tests. but I've done thousands of projects on each platform and that is definitely my assessment... perhaps it's a panning thing, perhaps not. I think the real way to test it would be to capture the live playback from each via analog conversion with identical playback and recording converters and compare the resulting files but it has never been important enough to me to bother...
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I have seen this Flex Pitch oddity as well, I was working quickly and just stopped using Flex Pitch basically. Really bothers me when I turn on a setting that things change like lengths of regions, speed etc... the setting should just engage the analysis and any processing should happen after I make the changes! like Pro Tools elastic audio or Melodyne... have not seen the undo thing. Worrisome tho! I get the sense that logic is a runaway train for the devs lately... getting too bloated to keep up with bugs... I love the workflow over the last several versions but some of the behaviors are getting to be a little much to deal with especially when adding in the SWOD crashes... (fully realize these are generally plugin related)...sorry rant over 🙂
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That's great, but I don't want to see the tools when I right click... I want the contextual menu for right click, and then I use Escape key for my tool menu for tools that I don't have direct shortcut memorized for. Also I'm seeing this bug when I don't use either of these methods of switching tools. I guess this wouldn't be the first or only graphics bug that has plagued Logic for a long time 😞
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I am seeing this bug also. It's affecting tools chosen through the tool menu pop up (escape key for me) as well as tools selected by secondary / command key option (I have scissors as the secondary tool) as well as tools chosen by dedicated shortcut. Logic just gets stuck in a mode where the graphical representation of the tool fails to change even though the tool is active. Seems to happen on more elaborate, large track number projects, maybe why it hasn't been reported much. Please submit to Apple if you haven't! Ventura 13.6 with Logic 10.8.1 here.
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this appears fixed in 10.8.1! pretty effing great for only reporting 2 months ago... I guess possible someone else reported well before that.... but send in those bug reports and implementation holes to Logic feedback everyone, they are listening.
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Library Browser Lag Issue: Logic 10.8 vs. 10.5.1
studioj replied to TimeForMusic's topic in Logic Pro
I usually send dropbox links. Not clear to me if they actually download these, but they will get back in touch with you if they need further info. -
Library Browser Lag Issue: Logic 10.8 vs. 10.5.1
studioj replied to TimeForMusic's topic in Logic Pro
interesting. That is a great video to send to Apple logic feedback to report this. I do recall in older versions of logic having some trouble with the library understanding what kind of track was selected sometimes and going blank... perhaps there was some work done to fix this that has slowed it down over all. I would definitely send that video to apple! that is a pretty significant difference overall and adds up over time.