jasonc

Hank Shocklee (Public Enemy) Necro/DJ Eclipse/Non-Phixion productions DJ Premiere ..but if your really looking for just instrumentals, you should check out the source materials...(if you don't wanna dig) Dusty Fingers comps, Strictly Breaks comps, library records etc. Check out www.the-breaks.com for more info.

This is kind of a general question but...as I've been visiting the Logic forums (between here and Apple), I've noticed so many people using VSL. ...and they seem to actually know what they're talking about with regards to all the..uh..'articulations' and such. I assume they're talking about all the different variations of how orchestra instruments could sound etc. My general questions are... 1.) Is there a lot of call for Orchestra-type music in Hollywood? (it seems so but) Where is the demand for this type of music coming from? 2.) Have you guys who are into Orchestra always been into it? Or is it something you picked up later? 3.) Where's the best place to start learning how to use all the instruments, balance them etc.? 4.) Does anyone supplement their income with this type of work? Not looking for anyone's secrets, just generally interested in what's going on?

The BIGGEST learning hurdle for me just had to do with understanding how a mixer works..specifically the difference between an 'Input' channel (that controls a live signal) and a 'Track' channel (that controls a pre-recorded track), what 'Aux''s and 'Busses' are used for (effects channels available to all other tracks), and the differences between an 'Insert', 'Pre', or 'Post' channel effect. That took me years to get my head around, and yet now it seems so easy.

I've been using peak for ages to.. - record sources - trim audio files - normalize - detect tempo - cut basic loops or prepare loops for softsamps - change gain, bit depth, and sample rate - SAVE the files to a specific place for later use Now that I own LP, I was sorta hoping I could stay within Logic for as much as possible. Do you guys think Logic works as a good straight forward editor? It seems a bit confusing to me at the moment, how it saves files etc. p.s. my apologies for the double post David

I've been using peak for ages to.. - record sources - trim audio files - normalize - detect tempo - cut basic loops or prepare loops for softsamps - change gain, bit depth, and sample rate - SAVE the files to a specific place for later use Now that I own LP, I was sorta hoping I could stay within Logic for as much as possible. Do you guys think Logic works as a good straight forward editor? It seems a bit confusing to me at the moment, how it saves files etc.

Smart man. If you remain a Mac user long enough, you'll learn to never trust the company.

No I'm talking about sampling bass 'n' thangs at 16-bit (or lower) to begin with, and if anything..I'd be upsampling to 24-bit when in came into a 24-bit project.

I remember reading a Dre article in which he talked about dumping down to DAT I believe, and when asked about ProTools, he specifically complained that something wasn't right with regards to the bass in PT. Later, in a different article, Dre said they had "sorted it out and now everything with PT was cool." So it could be a case of something we're doing wrong, or something else we're missing. Obviously, digi is going to trip over itself to please Dre, but I'm curious as to what they did to "fix" the bass for him. For me, not having anywhere near those resources, I have to read between the lines and make the best decisions for my gear/budget. At the very least, it appears that sticking with older methods is "safe" and the newer ones deserve non-technical scrutiny. Very interesting what you said about those Chicago test, and how so many people weren't hearing it...I think it takes a real ear for hip hop drums/bass to hear this stuff. Personally, I've started to rethink a number of things regarding my listening environment as well. I'm wondering if a good DJ speaker setup would serve me better than navigating through the $2000+ monitor systems. Going off on a tangent here, but I think we're def hearing the same things. Take care and good luck VSOP, let me know what you find out and I'll do the same as I get more tests done. Cheers! p.s. I had a laugh when you said.. that's how I felt at the Apple board..like "these guys are going to think I'm crazy". But your description of the bass is right on imho. Not a "consistent" feel, but going in and out, whereas 16-bit was in the 'gut' the whole time.

It's critical that we're really comparing things properly, so it's worth thinking through the processes of your conversion chain to make sure of what you are hearing. Here's my thread... http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=797535&tstart=75 My situation may sound different as far as the sources, and the exact chain of events, but I think we're experienceing the same thing. Actually, that question has been answered for me. YES, sampling at 16-bit and then playing back at 16-bit (on CD) had better bass than sampling at 24-bit, converting down to 16-bit, then putting it on CD. ...but the 'Million Dollar" question I'm still left with (and I plan to run tests on this) is...What is the (sonic) effect of putting a 16-bit drum sample into a 24-bit project, then mixing it all back down to 16-bit? Does the 16-bit file still retain it's character? Or would a 16-bit PROJECT be needed to "hold the bass" in the 16-bit file? lol..hope that made sense...I'm not a technical guy as you can see ...but good topic! The plot thickens as they say. I'm not inclined to disregard the ears of so many hip-hop producers if you know what I mean. Like I said in that other thread, 100 out of 100 people will tell you that drums sound better from an MPC. and my suspicion now is that 16-bit/44.1 has something to do with it.

I have my own theory as to why this is happening. I was going to link you to a thread I made at Apple Discussions, but then I saw your post over there and figured you have read most of what I've read etc. Anyway, my theory is simply that lower bit-rate sampling has a nicer, more pleasing effect on the low end. I did sampling test of my own and, to my ears, 16-bit files sounded much nicer in the bass dept. than the same files made at 24 bit. Since bass waves are big and blocky to begin with, I'm thinking that something about the blocky bits (12 or 16) actually accentuates some punch in the bass area. I bet even 8 bit bass would sound huge and push through your stomach. People questioned the quality of my soundcard, and it's def not the best, but I'd bet $100 that I'd get the same results if I tried the test with a high dollar soundcard too. I also agree with iShwarz that it has to do with the 'personality' of the piece of gear itself, but I also believe in a general way, that lower bit rate sampling makes low end sound nice. Why else would the SP-1200 still be so coveted? or the EPS 16+? or even the MPC...they could easily make them 24-bit like the 4000, but I think the designers have realized that the tool is aimed at drums, and therefore 16-bit is fine, and maybe preferred. Premiere still uses the S-950, and as crunchy as that piece sounds, it still nails you in the gut with it's low-end. (Actually, it's the low-mids these 16-bit conversions seem to emphasize. The freq's that hit your gut.) That's my story and I'm sticking to it until my EARS tell me different. I was surprised as anyone that this would be the case, but for me my ears hear this phenomena clearly now, at least on my system.

Good post Freeko....I forgot about needing the Sync stuff setup, but you're right on there. The way you explained is how I would use it if I had an MPC.

I don't envy you right now. Even though you've got some great equipment, it sounds like you're a bit new to MIDI and audio production, and so most likely you're going to bite off a bigger chunk to chew than is necessary imho. I'd focus on making beats w/ the MPC and the recording the individual audio tracks (not MIDI) into Logic, so you can add effects to the tracks, record vocals on top, and mixdown to CD. Triggering/sequencing the MPC sound pads from Logic (via midi) just doesn't sound like a worthwhile endeavor to me since the MPC excels at sequencing itself. It's like buying a Porshce to push a Ferrari (or something). If you want to edit the MPC audio inside of Logic, that makes more sense, but that's just a matter of recording each part onto an audio track in Logic...nothing to do with Midi there.

I thought you were joking with your post asking for the "Hip-Hop preset" (there's a running joke about how supposedly easy Hip-Hop is to make), but once I read your question, I knew you were talking about those channel strip presets that are only available to the Master channels. ..but that's because I've gone through all the presets and those are the only presets that had 'Hip-Hop' in the name.

The thing I dislike about Apple updates is that occasionally you'll find features (usually in Quicktime software) that you once used...albeit slowly...have dissapeared and your machine all the sudden doesn't 'support' this or that.

I would second the idea that you might try listening to music in the old 'listener' mode, on a regular stereo, and just for the enjoyment. That's helped me really enjoy music again. And maybe your studio's Fung-schwei (sp?) is off (I'm serious) and you need to find a more comfortable spot. You even said yourself you had success back in the bedroom etc.