Basic Editing Techniques

[NearDeafExperience]

Hello,

I've been kind of learning how to edit audio on my own and I was hoping I could get some feedback as to whether or not I am doing it correctly, or at least using best-practices. There are 4 basic scenarios that I'm concerned about. Everything is described in the attached graphic. If anyone has any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks!

Chris

 

 

[David Nahmani]

That looks/sounds complicated. Why not use Flex Time editing? See: 

 

[NearDeafExperience]

Is it really, though? What I'm doing here generally seems like what you'd have to do for digital/DAW-based editing before there was Flex Time, no?

I've managed to avoid using Flex Time for the time being. I just have trouble trusting something that's modifying/stretching the entire segment of audio under the hood to get it to line up. At least with my methods here the potential for artifacts is limited to exactly where I'm cutting and nudging and it is therefore easier to identify where/when I've caused a problem.

The second reason is performance. The other day I accidentally had Flex Time enabled on 4 tracks that were completely empty and I kept getting Flex Time console errors. The project I'm working on is fairly sparse at any given time but has about 100 stems. I think Flex Time would grind my system to a halt and require me to bounce down the edits in order for it to work. There's just too much going on to render everything in real time.

Anyway, I'm sure I will eventually make my way over to using Flex Time, and thank you for the link to the other post. For the time being I'm genuinely interested in how people would make these kinds of digital edits if Flex Time wasn't available. It seems like these editing skills were much needed in the not so recent past.

Thanks!

Chris

 

[Atlas007]

I like your user name!

[Atlas007]

Working efficiently with Flex does require some learning to obtain satisfactorily results and avoid the traps.

But in the end it provides a considerably more efficient workflow.

And contemplating your graphic, I could only imagine the tediousness all those editions represents...

Choosing the right Flex algorithm can make a huge difference on the outcome.

[David Nahmani]

On 5/10/2022 at 2:48 AM, NearDeafExperience said:

Is it really, though?

In my opinion it is, assuming you're comfortable with all the different options that Flex editing has to offer (transient editing mode, flex algos, theh different flex tools, the marquee tool , the advanced parameters for each algo etc.), but I'm aware that workflows are a personal choice guided by how you prefer to work, what results you're getting from your own experiments etc. So really, whatever works for you. But in my opinion this is much easier than what you just described: 

I used to edit audio with a razor blade, splicing analog reel to reel tape. Then I edited in Pro Tools and later in Logic the way you describe. In fact I resisted Flex Time editing for a while because I felt like I wasn't in control. But one day I decided to really dig in to it and really learn how it all works, all the different tools, how they behave and how they affect and process the audio (or don't if I don't want to), and now I feel like I can confidently do most of my editing using Flex Time. I would not go back to editing regions by hand, the same way I would not go back to cutting tape with a razor blade.

As for performance, there's also a big performance hit in Logic Pro when you start to cut and dice your regions into many tiny regions. The more you have, the more editing slows down. When you get into the thousands of regions in a project, it may slow down to a halt. So there's that to consider also. Note that you can always freeze your flex tracks but because all flexed tracks are loaded in RAM, you shouldn't have any issues unless you're flexing hundreds of tracks and don't have enough RAM. When you freeze a track it's back to the drive so you're freeing up RAM and using more disk streaming. One isn't better than the other, it's a matter of balancing the resources you have at your disposal. 

[NearDeafExperience]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been away. OK, David, so your reply confirms this is the way it used to be done but that I should plan on spending some time getting used to Flex Time if I want to increase my productivity. I'll plan on doing that. Thanks again!

Chris

[David Nahmani]

6 hours ago, NearDeafExperience said:

OK, David, so your reply confirms this is the way it used to be done but that I should plan on spending some time getting used to Flex Time if I want to increase my productivity. I'll plan on doing that. Thanks again!

Hey Chris, no problem, keep in mind that it's just my opinion based on my experience, if you're fine working "the old way" and don't mind spending a bit more time with it and you find that you get better results that way or feel like you are more in control that way then by all means, do whatever works best for you. 

I remember working for a producer in Los Angeles who asked me take his lead singer recordings and destructively apply -10 dB of gain to the breath noises before every phrase. I suggested this could be done in the Tracks area nondestructively with region gain or volume automation and he wasn't interested in changing his method. That was his way of thinking, his way of working, and he wanted me to do it his way. There's nothing wrong with that. 

[fuzzfilth]

4 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

I suggested this could be done in the Tracks area nondestructively

I probably would have just done it that way, faster and with less effort, and casually go back one or two breaths to finetune the gain adjustment while watching the producer's reaction. 😛

Edited May 16, 2022 by fuzzfilth

[David Nahmani]

Just now, fuzzfilth said:

I probably would have just done it that way, faster and with less effort, and casually gone back one or two breaths to finetune the gain adjustment while watching the producer's reaction. 😛

Yeah I know but believe me the guy knew what he was doing, had been working with Logic forever and knew all the features, only he wanted commitment, and wasn't interested in going back one or two or any number of breaths, or listening to check or anything. Just process, move forward, done. His studio complex was a well oiled hit song making factory, and time management was the most important aspect. 

The way I see it now is, there's no right or wrong way, you just have to pick the appropriate workflow for the job.

[NearDeafExperience]

13 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Hey Chris, no problem, keep in mind that it's just my opinion based on my experience, if you're fine working "the old way" and don't mind spending a bit more time with it and you find that you get better results that way or feel like you are more in control that way then by all means, do whatever works best for you. 

I remember working for a producer in Los Angeles who asked me take his lead singer recordings and destructively apply -10 dB of gain to the breath noises before every phrase. I suggested this could be done in the Tracks area nondestructively with region gain or volume automation and he wasn't interested in changing his method. That was his way of thinking, his way of working, and he wanted me to do it his way. There's nothing wrong with that. 

Truth be told... I should pony up to the bar and learn how to use the shiny new tools all the kids have these days.  I appreciate your thoughtful feedback. I'm from the 90s. I was one of the designers on the Euphonix R1 Audio Deck back in the 90s, if you happen to know what that is. I've taken a 20 year hiatus from music since and now all this gear I have isn't worth a dime in my pocket. 🤣 Dusting off the strings... dusting off the DAW... 

[David Nahmani]

Wow no I wasn't aware of that Euphonix model. That's cool that you were one of the designers! 

Well yeah if you have the time then I would definitely spend some time learning Flex while experimenting, at least then you can make a decision to use it or to continue doing it your way not because you're unfamiliar with the tool but because you know exactly what method is best for you. 😀