Dedicated window for samples. Who agrees?

So yesterday I was watching a tutorial for FL Studio and one thing I realized is that they use the samples window a lot and it definitely makes the workflow way faster than in Logic (in my opinion). I feel that Logic's window is too big and it takes too much space so it's not practical to keep opening and closing windows.

I made a rough cut on an image and I'm sharing it here with you guys, just to know your opinion. I think if we could have a dedicated window just for audio files, without the File Size and Date (or at least we could decide what information it would show), it would be awesome. We could leave that window open more often and the drag and drop would be more useful than ever. Let me know what you think:

 

Before:

 

After (never mind the glitches and stuff lol):

In the audio bin, the user can configure the columns a little. But it could be also much more versatile, especially I'm missing the sort by columns feature there. I've never used the samples window. But it looks, that it'd also benefit from more sophisticated features.

 

Let's drop some feature request over at Logic

I agree that it would streamline the workflow a lot when you need to import audio files or samples. Excellent idea.

Tagging and favorites would be helpful as well. Similar to the Apple Loops browser.

In the audio bin, the user can configure the columns a little. But it could be also much more versatile, especially I'm missing the sort by columns feature there. I've never used the samples window. But it looks, that it'd also benefit from more sophisticated features.

 

Let's drop some feature request over at Logic

 

I guess most people don't use it, because it's a huge thing to have in front of the arrangement. I feel that, because of its size, in our brain we feel more like it's something that's overlaying the arrangement and it bothers us. At least for me, that's what I feel. If it was something more subtle that can stay there all the time, maybe we would be using it more often. I actually have a reminder on my calendar every day to remind me that I need to use it more often instead of the Finder

I created Alias on my Home folder to all my samples, that way it's easier to find them.

 

I already sent them a feature request. It would be great to see this happen in the future

I agree that it would streamline the workflow a lot when you need to import audio files or samples. Excellent idea.

 

Thanks!

Yeah, I feel that people at Apple should consider saving space. That's one of the things I loved about Logic 9, that I really don't like about Logic X. Everything now is super big, for no reason. Workflow speed for me is the most important thing for me, not huge icons and space in between things.

This idea would definitely help a lot with it.

 

I already sent them a feature request

Tagging and favorites would be helpful as well. Similar to the Apple Loops browser.

 

Definitely! And I still think that the Loops browser could be tweaked as well. I feel it could have some features like custom tags and a way to create our own folders and categories. I'm very OCD when it comes to organizing things. If I could have tags like "Hard Kick" or "Swing HH" as my custom tags, for example, without creating folders in Finder, that would be a huge thing.

I'm actually trying to find a developer who wants to work on a plugin with me that does exactly that. A sample and loop organizer where people would tag their stuff without moving stuff around. I hope I find one

That's one of the things I loved about Logic 9, that I really don't like about Logic X. Everything now is super big, for no reason.

I wouldn't say for no reason, I believe the idea is to make the interface look very easy, some people used to complain that the text was too small, etc.. so in regards to those issues, the new LPX interface helps. However I agree that the interface could still be improved upon. For example why am I not able to make the All Files Browser narrower, much like it appears on your mock-up screenshot? Maybe additional info columns (timestamp/lock, info, bpm) could collapse as one makes the browser narrower.

 

And my biggest pet peeve: add a vertical scrollbar to the channel strip area of the Inspector when they're too big to fit that area!!

That's one of the things I loved about Logic 9, that I really don't like about Logic X. Everything now is super big, for no reason.

I wouldn't say for no reason, I believe the idea is to make the interface look very easy, some people used to complain that the text was too small, etc.. so in regards to those issues, the new LPX interface helps. However I agree that the interface could still be improved upon. For example why am I not able to make the All Files Browser narrower, much like it appears on your mock-up screenshot? Maybe additional info columns (timestamp/lock, info, bpm) could collapse as one makes the browser narrower.

 

And my biggest pet peeve: add a vertical scrollbar to the channel strip area of the Inspector when they're too big to fit that area!!

 

I mean, it could be balanced. Maybe not as small as Logic 9, but maybe not as big as X. There are ways to achieve the same results without using too much space. Look at Ableton for example.

 

Yeah, making that window narrower would help. And making us choose what info shows up, just like the Finder window where we can just right click and pick the columns. And clicking a column now, doesn't sort things. It doesn't make sense...

 

And yeah the channel strip thing is annoying sometimes. Luckily I rarely use too many plugins that causes that, but I totally agree. What about the Groups thing that doesn't go away? haha certain things that I don't understand why Apple doesn't fix that once and for all before introducing new things, sometimes not as important.

Easy is good, for beginners are not so seasoned users. But for users like us, I'd like to see the option to do more.

 

There is already a general option to activate "advanced features". This could be a part of it.

Easy is good, for beginners are not so seasoned users. But for users like us, I'd like to see the option to do more.

 

There is already a general option to activate "advanced features". This could be a part of it.

 

Yeah I think certain features could be turned on and off. I don’t think that coding that kind of stuff takes a full month. I keep saying this, but it feels like whoever makes certain decisions about Logic is not someone who works with it every day otherwise certain features would have been fixed a long time ago, along with really helpful features, for example the ability to rename Busses that are saved with the project. Reading Bus 1, Bus 2, etc, makes no sense.

Also the fact that once the Groups is activated for a project, it doesn’t go away.

There are too many. And these are not even special requests. Those are things that the majority of users ask and would see a benefit from.

There is already a general option to activate "advanced features". This could be a part of it.

That's a good idea.

 

I wouldn't mind the option of seeing only the Tracks area. I mean no other panes is already possible, but I'd like to see the option of not seeing a local menu and no track headers, or maybe a super narrow track header with only M and S, for those times when I'm editing regions and arranging. There are certain phases of production when I'm completing tasks requiring only key commands and I no longer need to see local menus, so I could use the extra screen real estate.

 

Couple that with the possibility to not see a local menu in the Editor area as well, and hide the huge "Piano roll / Score / Step Editor" buttons at the top....

 

I suppose a preference pane where you can hide specific elements of the GUI would take care of it!

 

How about hiding the region and track inspector headers?

 

And, 3ple, remember our discussion about hiding the Library headers as well?

 

Even the Control bar could be much thinner....

..., for example the ability to rename Busses that are saved with the project. Reading Bus 1, Bus 2, etc, makes no sense.

Also the fact that once the Groups is activated for a project, it doesn’t go away.

There are too many. And these are not even special requests. Those are things that the majority of users ask and would see a benefit from.

 

You can do this already, at least globally.

 

Or do you mean you want to save the names separately with each project and not globally?

... no track headers, or maybe a super narrow track header with only M and S, for those times when I'm editing regions and arranging.

 

I think this is possible with screensets.

... no track headers, or maybe a super narrow track header with only M and S, for those times when I'm editing regions and arranging.

 

I think this is possible with screensets.

I can't get them as narrow as they could be. I mean space for only the M and S button. No track name, no extra space wasted.

Or do you mean you want to save the names separately with each project and not globally?

Yes I believe that's what 3ple said. That's been a feature request by Logic users for a loooong time.

There is already a general option to activate "advanced features". This could be a part of it.

That's a good idea.

 

I wouldn't mind the option of seeing only the Tracks area. I mean no other panes is already possible, but I'd like to see the option of not seeing a local menu and no track headers, or maybe a super narrow track header with only M and S, for those times when I'm editing regions and arranging. There are certain phases of production when I'm completing tasks requiring only key commands and I no longer need to see local menus, so I could use the extra screen real estate.

 

Couple that with the possibility to not see a local menu in the Editor area as well, and hide the huge "Piano roll / Score / Step Editor" buttons at the top....

 

I suppose a preference pane where you can hide specific elements of the GUI would take care of it!

 

How about hiding the region and track inspector headers?

 

And, 3ple, remember our discussion about hiding the Library headers as well?

 

Even the Control bar could be much thinner....

 

 

Yeah I remember that. It would be so much easier if the user could control what to hide/show, creating different workspaces for different parts of the process.

 

If they reduced like 50% of the empty space it would make a huge difference in space. And the icons maybe to 75% of what they are now. Taking a bit here and there, in general it could gain so mich space

..., for example the ability to rename Busses that are saved with the project. Reading Bus 1, Bus 2, etc, makes no sense.

Also the fact that once the Groups is activated for a project, it doesn’t go away.

There are too many. And these are not even special requests. Those are things that the majority of users ask and would see a benefit from.

 

You can do this already, at least globally.

 

Or do you mean you want to save the names separately with each project and not globally?

 

Each project. I used it globally until recently, but there are some inconveniences with it. One of them is when you open old projects before you started renaming the busses and that would be a mess, like a reverb would have the name Delay (been there, done that).

Another problem is when you share the project with another person who has a different configuration so that would cause the same problem I just mentioned.

By project would be great

 

I think this is possible with screensets.

I can't get them as narrow as they could be. I mean space for only the M and S button. No track name, no extra space wasted.

 

The only option I can think of is, once you get to a part of the process where you star a new task, save the project with a new name (like Mix) and hide stuff from the track header. I’m actually trying a new approach different from what I’ve been using. I’m trying to work without the track number, icon, pan. So I basically have just M, S, R, the name of the track and the volume slider. That alone reduces a lot of the space. Also, reducing the panel where the channel strip and output strip are, gives you a few extra pixels

The only option I can think of is, once you get to a part of the process where you star a new task, save the project with a new name (like Mix) and hide stuff from the track header. I’m actually trying a new approach different from what I’ve been using. I’m trying to work without the track number, icon, pan. So I basically have just M, S, R, the name of the track and the volume slider. That alone reduces a lot of the space. Also, reducing the panel where the channel strip and output strip are, gives you a few extra pixels

Yes but that's still plenty of wasted space. Even with all buttons hidden, this is the narrowest it can get currently. Since that takes up all that vertical space that's a huge chunk of unused screen real estate in your Tracks area:

 

Chiming in

 

My ultimate wish in that respect, would be the equivalent to a configurable "Mission Control/Show Desktop"-like type of thing. Hit one key command (not a screenset KC, you easily get lost into which is what) and everything else but the arrange pane is reduced to a (configurable) bare minimum and moves out of the way to the borders of the screen, so as to maximize the visible arrange pane space (our desktop, after all),., hit that key again and everything else is back. Even better, in this "Mission Control/Show arrange" mode, move the mouse over one reduced pane (e;g. the bin / media / files pane, or Mixer/Editor, or Inspector, or Toolbar) and it temporarily expands so that you can grab/edit/click something in it, then drag/move the mouse back over the arrange pane and the other pane/toolbar whatever collapses on its own, not even any need to hit any key for that. To me that would a great enhancement to workflow. Everything would be there for instant use, but not there when not needed, and no tons of key commands to remember to make them temporarily visible.

I like this idea 3ple. Another cool feature would be to allow us to send audio files directly from the browser to the exs24 sampler. Other daws have this feature such as fl studio and studio one and its a real time saver.

The only option I can think of is, once you get to a part of the process where you star a new task, save the project with a new name (like Mix) and hide stuff from the track header. I’m actually trying a new approach different from what I’ve been using. I’m trying to work without the track number, icon, pan. So I basically have just M, S, R, the name of the track and the volume slider. That alone reduces a lot of the space. Also, reducing the panel where the channel strip and output strip are, gives you a few extra pixels

Yes but that's still plenty of wasted space. Even with all buttons hidden, this is the narrowest it can get currently. Since that takes up all that vertical space that's a huge chunk of unused screen real estate in your Tracks area:

 

logic-003.png

 

It could be worse, right?

I guess we have to wait until Apple decides that space is more important than creating graphics for people who should wear glasses hahaha

Chiming in

 

My ultimate wish in that respect, would be the equivalent to a configurable "Mission Control/Show Desktop"-like type of thing. Hit one key command (not a screenset KC, you easily get lost into which is what) and everything else but the arrange pane is reduced to a (configurable) bare minimum and moves out of the way to the borders of the screen, so as to maximize the visible arrange pane space (our desktop, after all),., hit that key again and everything else is back. Even better, in this "Mission Control/Show arrange" mode, move the mouse over one reduced pane (e;g. the bin / media / files pane, or Mixer/Editor, or Inspector, or Toolbar) and it temporarily expands so that you can grab/edit/click something in it, then drag/move the mouse back over the arrange pane and the other pane/toolbar whatever collapses on its own, not even any need to hit any key for that. To me that would a great enhancement to workflow. Everything would be there for instant use, but not there when not needed, and no tons of key commands to remember to make them temporarily visible.

 

I'm not sure about the panels that expand/disappear when you hover over with the mouse... I'm not a big fan of things moving when sometimes they are not supposed to. How many times am I working with Photoshop, move the cursor a bit more than I should and boom, the Dock opens?

And I believe that would require more coding and Apple doesn't seem too interested in that haha

 

The "Mission Control" could be a thing. I'm not sure if I would personally use it, because I avoid having too much stuff open anyway, but...

I think some plugins could be smaller though. Some are too big and take too much space on the screen and closing/opening them all the time, creates a lot of screen clutter, in my opinion

I like this idea 3ple. Another cool feature would be to allow us to send audio files directly from the browser to the exs24 sampler. Other daws have this feature such as fl studio and studio one and its a real time saver.

 

Yeah, that could save a lot of time. They would have to have a few check boxes and stuff on the main panel so we can then decide the range of the sample, one shot vs gated, etc. But yeah, that could help in some occasions.

I actually do that, but with Ultrabeat. I already have a preset that allows me to drag and drop a sample and I can play on the keyboard and it has at least 2 octaves.

Audiofinder (http://www.icedaudio.com) looks pretty good, had my eye on it for a while.

 

You can select a particular range of the audio file and bring it straight within Logic which is cool.

 

It seems quite a bit of money for being just a glorified finder alternative though, yet i've read comments on people saying it's essential for their workflow. Going between Ableton (+Push) to Logic i do find the sample browsing a bit cumbersome. But i generally don't use samples in Logic so much - it's usually for straight up Rock/Alternative music, so not a big issue for me.

 

However, i could see something like Audiofinder being a bit of a revelation, particularly as it's not DAW dependant - for someone that uses 2x daw's and a DJ rig i could probably make a ton of use out of it, i do like that familiarity of my sample library being available to multiple applications.

 

Don't suppose anyone has tried it for some first hand experience/feedback? I've whetted my appetite once again, and can see me getting it end of month, even though i'm not really that sample-centric right now!

Audiofinder (http://www.icedaudio.com) looks pretty good, had my eye on it for a while.

 

You can select a particular range of the audio file and bring it straight within Logic which is cool.

 

It seems quite a bit of money for being just a glorified finder alternative though, yet i've read comments on people saying it's essential for their workflow. Going between Ableton (+Push) to Logic i do find the sample browsing a bit cumbersome. But i generally don't use samples in Logic so much - it's usually for straight up Rock/Alternative music, so not a big issue for me.

 

However, i could see something like Audiofinder being a bit of a revelation, particularly as it's not DAW dependant - for someone that uses 2x daw's and a DJ rig i could probably make a ton of use out of it, i do like that familiarity of my sample library being available to multiple applications.

 

Don't suppose anyone has tried it for some first hand experience/feedback? I've whetted my appetite once again, and can see me getting it end of month, even though i'm not really that sample-centric right now!

 

 

I used it for awhile and to me it wasn't much different than using the finder. My purpose for trying it was to see if it helped manage my ever growing sound library but it wasn't much help their either. I wanna give it one more shot because like you I've read post on other forums how they wouldn't go without it. you should try the demo I would love to hear your feedback too.

Oh didn't even notice there was a demo, yes will have a play with that - For me the BPM detection/tagging of samples is quite appealing, plus being able to route it's audio preview out into my headphones rather than PA would be really handy.

 

Surely it helps grouping together one-shots/bass drums/snares/vocals (and keys) etc? Or was your collection already sorted quite well within structured folders?

 

I have many collections that are stored in their own collection folders, so i have to dip in and out of genre/collection grouped samples, however, as an example - it would be nice to browse ALL the BassDrum/SnareDrum samples across all my libraries...

 

Gonna have a play this weekend hopefully!

My library is somewhat organized but could be way better. The tagging features are why I haven't given up on it yet but something about the UI just doesn't connect with me that well. I too have a ton of collections and going in and out of folders is a real time killer. With that being said it works best for me to spend some time tagging, sorting, rating, and giving a short description to my sounds. So now when I'm working on a song and I know its in Fminor for example, I can see all sounds already in that key or just take a sound by its description and tune it later in logic.

I agree, the Media Browser thingy sorely needs improvement. Ableton and FL Studio nailed it.