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Disappearing MIDI when working with overlapping regions


gpax

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I posted this over at the composer forum I frequent, and got a number of views but not a single response.

 

I am seeing this recent, but infrequent occurrence while editing MIDI notes with overlapping regions selected, where data from underlying regions will disappear and cannot be restored. It happens right after a window pops up asking me if I want to split something, though while I’m only nudging notes manually in the piano roll (similar to the options when I’m intentionally editing regions).

 

Then, despite declining the unsolicited action, Logic proceeds to either truncate and/or wipe out the MIDI notes from an underlying region. Neither undo or history will bring the notes back at that point. Only closing an unsaved project will restore this data when reopening again.

 

Two behaviors occur in the context of when this infrequent and seemingly random event happens: Sometimes I can reach for the truncated sliver of the underlying region and expand it to see the notes again. At at other times when I do this, the notes have all been erased, and the region is blank. I’ve lost entire performances this way.

 

This is not something I can intentionally reproduce. I work on hundreds of tweaks per day in the piano roll, and this event happens infrequently. On average, a few times per week. I believe it began after an update earlier this year, but cannot be certain. Indeed I’ve not encountered this in many years of working this way, where I build complex piano parts with several overlapping takes, then edit within the lassoed regions before eventually merging.

 

Is it just me?

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Overlap. As this is how I will often build up part/ voices. With no overlap, I would not be able to to do this at all, I believe. Or, at least that was the case when an update some time ago reverted to n overlap as a default, and sent me scrambling to turn it off.

 

The only "clue" I have is that something is inadvertently triggering what LPX thinks is region editing functions, though I have multiple regions lassoed while working strictly in the piano editor.

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While I don't have an actual fix for this problem which I too have never encountered, I *very* often work with multiple simultaneous Regions forming intricate performances, and this is how, just in case you don't know:

 

Select Track>Other>New Track With Same Channel. This gives you one or more tracks driving the same MIDI instrument and you can put whatever you want on them. This way, nothing overlaps which is always cumbersome when a long Region completely covers a shorter Region, and you can see all events at any time. Once you're done, you can merge all Regions. Or leave them be.

 

Maybe you want to look into this, solve your current problem and gain some advantages while doing so.

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Thanks fuzzfilth. Yes - that is what I also do for single instrument orchestrations when comparing takes. The esoteric workflow I am describing would seem to be relative to piano tracks which are the basis of the eventual orchestration. I’m guessing more competent keyboardists don’t go where I go, lol, but the magic for me is frequently capturing improvised takes as recordings, which overlap.

 

I’m looking for confirmation of a recently introduced bug here, apparently, which I can only take screenshots of when this next happens. What distresses is that LPX is performing an action when I decline, and then does so destructively with no recourse for a simple undo. And it’s MIDI.

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Fuzzfilth - I’m still waking up. Reread your post after I replied, and realized that is absolutely a workflow solution, but my old habits die hard. In the piano roll I’m constantly nudging notes relative to hearing the notes from the underlying performance, as well as physically moving them along a scale to get the harmony I hear in my head (my theory skills lag). I will lasso notes of overlapping takes without even thinking, to hear the more complex chord.
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  • 4 weeks later...

Today, I managed to get a screenshot of the behavior I detailed in my initial posts. Yes, even as I am now more routinely working by opening up additional tracks using the same instrument, I still have a number of instances where there is overlap of some of my previous piano parts for an ongoing project.

 

What is happening in this picture is where I'm stumped. I have simply clicked on a MIDI note to move it, and then the window opens up - triggered inadvertently.

 

Moreover, as described before, if I simply hit Cancel, all underlying regions are either truncated or get deleted entirely, with no recourse to bring them back via an undo. In the case of this event today, I actually clicked on Keep for the first time, which avoided the destructive action.

 

Any clue what is triggering this behavior, which is a separate question from why a simple "Cancel" nevertheless proceeds with an unwanted and destructive action? If this is not a bug, I don't know what is.

 

1879091027_ScreenShot2022-01-01at11_39_35AM.thumb.png.bb70a44157967ce66bdd2a2658f38e3a.png

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This particular project is tied to commercial work, but I do not believe this behavior is project specific. I’ve encountered it dozens of times with different projects since last year.

 

I could send another project with similar overlapping regions, but this is not a reproducible behavior and I’ve worked entire days without this quirk popping up.

 

What I just noticed here is that the cursor is placed as if to spilt a note, though that is not my intention. I’m simply selecting a note to either then move it along the scale, mute, or even delete it. i also think this is coincidence I captured this - I’ve seen this when the cursor was not over what I was attempting to edit, though perhaps Logic is interpreting wherever else the cursor may be at the time as a split point? Just a hunch.

 

Under what circumstances would the above even be intentionally triggered? I split notes and regions constantly via an assigned key, with a straightforward series of options similarly worded. But unlike this random oddity, canceling leaves everything untouched.

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Hi Polanoid

 

Per my lengthier, initial post, the underlying regions in the track are what is being destroyed and/or altered, after this scenario in the Piano Roll editor occurs. One of two behaviors takes place: the underlying regions are truncated to a small sliver in the track, which I think have to manually extend. Sometimes all the notes are intact, at other times I've seen them completely wiped out (totally blank).

 

The second thing I've seen is an underlying region disappear entirely from the track, though this seems to be the lesser occurrence.

 

And more to the point, this happens when simply hitting cancel in the unsolicited window, where LPX then performs a fairly intrusive and/or destructive action that is invisible to an undo history.

 

I am not sure anyone here is capable of solving this mystery, to be honest, and I never interpreted this as something in need of a fix as much as I have seen it as a glitch that was introduced sometime after an update last year. (Note, I'm a prudent user who has only posted 30+ times since 2007 when I am certain there is something to draw attention to). At this point, it's really a matter of hoping for clues in how to report or detect what is going on, though it's feeling a bit like a desert island now.

 

It seems this only happens with keyboard virtual instruments, by the way, where many overlapping notes are potentially involved.

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I’m looking for confirmation of a recently introduced bug here, apparently, which I can only take screenshots of when this next happens.

Could you find an example of a case when this happens, save a copy of that project, delete all tracks and regions but the ones exhibiting the behavior, and attach it here along with a series of instructions in order for one of us to reproduce the issue? That way we could help determine if indeed, that's a bug, and eventually report it to the appropriate people. How to attach files to your post

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  • 1 year later...

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