automation Absolute or Relative +-

does anyone know what the difference in Automation are now between Absolute and Relative +- are? thanks

Relative is an extra layer being added or subtracted to the existent one.

I've been asking for this option for years... Happy times.

Trim = original parameter value + offset determined by fader position = new parameter value.

Relative = you now have two automation lanes, one for the original parameter value, one for the offset determined by the fader position.

Ok I'm probably being thick but i still don't get it. Can you explain a situation where you would use one over the other? Sorry!

hahahaha yeah that makes no sense to me either ^^^ hahahaha

Ok that makes more sense, I'm going to experiment some more when I'm back on Logic tomorrow and see if I can get the hang of it. Thanks for the help.

Its taken me this long to experiment with it but this is awesome. Using Trim with Touch mode is so much better the previous Touch behaviour. Relative is great, it makes much more sense now i can see how it separates the automation. Thanks for the help.

You're welcome! These were long requested features, and many users will be very happy to finally have them.

So ... (do I get it right?)

Trim:

After applying trim to the automated part you come up with a new value of previous automation line - there is no actual "trim line" that you can refer to or adjust after stoping the playback. It's more of this kind of workflow : "1.Trim to taste-->2. Listen back-> 3. Undo if it's not right(no editing) 5. go to point 1 .

Seems like it doubles the workflow: 1. Select a whole section of automation with marque tool --->2. Drag it up or down.

Isn't the good old "Gain plugin way at the end of the stripe" better at least you can adjust it afterwards

Relative:

Is fully editable in "+/- volume view" .

Am I right?

Seems like it doubles the workflow: 1. Select a whole section of automation with marque tool --->2. Drag it up or down.

Isn't the good old "Gain plugin way at the end of the stripe" better at least you can adjust it afterwards

Except trim is real time. It would be like automating that Gain plug-in in real time.

David Nahmani said:

Let's say you record a synth. Some of the notes are too loud, so you use volume automation to turn down just those notes. Now you want to create a nice smooth fade in on that synth so its volume slowly raises over a build-up section. You can use one of the two new modes, either Relative or Trim, to create your smooth fade in while keeping the previous automation.

In that situation Relative is probably the better one as you can easily correct/redraw the fade independently of the original automation. So you end up with two lanes: the original automation turning down certain notes, and another lane for your fade in.

Trim would allow you to have the fade incorporate the original automation so that you only have a single automation lane containing both the fade in and the individual notes being turned down. You can trim as many times as you want and it constantly updates the single automation lane.

Hope that helps?

That's a very good explanation. The manual has almost no explanation of this subject.

I actually use relative for doing wide volume changes, for ex. if the instrument should be louder in the different section and don't create the absolute volume automation, so that I could easily balance tracks with faders. What do you think of that?

If a track doesn’t have absolute automation and set to 0 dB volume, adding relative automation line of 0 dB should not change anything. But it drops the resulting volume to –6 dB.

That’s my problem #1.

Problem #2: changing absolute volume via fader is impossible then. The fader stays at lowered level.

In the end: I want to have some drawn automation (figured it’ll be relative) and still be able to change overall level via fader.
Please help.

1. I think there's a bug where adding relative volume automation will add -6db of absolute volume automation when there's none prior.

2. Do you want to adjust the fader with the mouse while relative automation is happening? This doesn't work very well when I've tried to do it. Mixing Relative and Absolute Volume Automation works best when programming/drawing automation. If you want to preserve the ability to move the fader around, you sadly need a Gain plugin to make relative adjustments. Just be aware Logic's Gain plugin doesn't correct for project latency properly so sometimes its fades are off.

1 minute ago, sunbrother said:

1. I think there's a bug where adding relative volume automation will add -6db of absolute volume automation when there's none prior.

2. Do you want to adjust the fader with the mouse while relative automation is happening? This doesn't work very well when I've tried to do it. Mixing Relative and Absolute Volume Automation works best when programming/drawing automation. If you want to preserve the ability to move the fader around, you sadly need a Gain plugin to make relative adjustments. Just be aware Logic's Gain plugin doesn't correct for project latency properly so sometimes its fades are off.

Yes, I want to change a track's level with the volume fader (in Read mode) when there's relative volume automation. Seems impossible. Yes, adding the gain plug-in or creating the VCA fader (which adds another track to take care of) seems to be the only options.
Sadly, relative and trim volume doesn’t help in this case.
Thanks for you time!