A technical support community for Apple Logic Pro users.

 
Realgrey
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Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:09 am

==============================
The System
==============================

Mac Pro 3.7GHz Quad-Core
32GB RAM

El Capitan OS X
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206770

Logic Pro X 10.2.4
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

UAD Console 2.0

Interface Config
+ Silver Apollo Thunderbolt Card
+ ADAT to/from Focusrite Octopre Dynamics MkII
+ Apollo 16 MkII
+ Apollo Twin Duo

Lacie 2big 6TB
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2bigTb2-6TB


==============================
The Problem
==============================

“Disc too slow or system overload” issue w/ Logic has persisted since I bought the computer last year.

What We’ve done:
+ Updated the RAM (32GB) in the Mac Pro
+ Optimized the processor allocation in Logic to use all 8 cores (actual & virtual)
+ We freeze all midi tracks
+ We save after every take

What ha’happn ‘iz
+ Every time we start Logic the HD monitor spikes … it doesn’t always throw an error but it does spike every … Is that right?
+ The frequency of system error during playback and record has increased.  More noticeable with bigger project files.
+ Increased occurrences when we updated to to El Capitan OS X

Sometimes it seems like the HD goes to sleep and when it’s waking up the error occurs.  Is that possible?  How would I prevent that from happening?

I’ve read that some just use a solid state drive as a recording disc … I’ve just invested a buttload in the 6TB 7200 RPM HD … I would have to buy separate controller to retrofit w/ SSDs … I’d want to prove that concept before investing.


==============================
The Context
==============================

We have a project recording studio and used logic.  We have protools, and don’t seem to have issues w/ it but the bulk of our work is done in Logic.  We are doing more and more live recording w/ paid artists so the loss of a take can be costly to the creative flow and financially too.  I’ve have the configuration of how our gear is wired up and am glad to share that as need be.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

System Config Illustration
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vr06yt8iz7hou2/RonFlack-TB-config.jpg?dl=0
Ron Flack
Realgrey Records
Logic Pro X 10.2.4, Mac Pro 3.7GHz Quad-Core 32GB RAM, El Capitan OS X, Focusrite Octopre Dynamics MKII, UAD Apollo Silver, UAD Apollo 16 MkII, UAD Twin Duo, KX8 midi controller, Korg SV1 digital Keyboard, C2 Hammond Organ, Rhodes 73 stage Mark I
 
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Jfever
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:11 pm

Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:43 am

You may want to investigate your hard drive.  What type is it? Have you done checks on its health? Space? Are there partitions? Are there more than 1 hard drive?
Logic Pro 9.1.8 (64bit)
MacBookPro 16GB 2.4Ghz i5
Mavericks 10.9.5
Logic Audio files on internal SSD drive
Logic install on internal SATA
Apogee Ensemble A/D D/A
 
Realgrey
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Location: USA Canton Ohio
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:12 am

Jfever,
Thanks for your reply ... My hard drive is a Lacie 2big 6TB.  And yes, it is divided into a partitions ... It is connected via TB to my mac pro ... I don't have it configured as a raid, it's really 2 3TB drives side by side.  The drive I record to does have partitions.  Is that a problem?  Thank you kindly for your questions.

Hard drive spec
[size=100][font=-apple-system, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2bigTb2-6TB[/font][/size]
Ron Flack
Realgrey Records
Logic Pro X 10.2.4, Mac Pro 3.7GHz Quad-Core 32GB RAM, El Capitan OS X, Focusrite Octopre Dynamics MKII, UAD Apollo Silver, UAD Apollo 16 MkII, UAD Twin Duo, KX8 midi controller, Korg SV1 digital Keyboard, C2 Hammond Organ, Rhodes 73 stage Mark I
 
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Eric Cardenas
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:17 am

Realgrey wrote:
Sometimes it seems like the HD goes to sleep and when it’s waking up the error occurs.  Is that possible?  How would I prevent that from happening?


This could be the problem right there.
You can try setting the hard drives to never go to sleep but the controller chip inside the enclosure may not respond to that setting.
There are small scripts you can use to keep the hard drive awake at all times too.

I would try one thing first.
Use your system drive as your current project drive to see if the issue disappear when not involving the external drive. You can always move finished projects to your 6TB to free up space once you are done.
Eric Bradley Cardenas
EC Making Sound
Mac mini 2.6 GHz 16GB RAM Areca⚡RAID | MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz 16GB RAM | Os 10.14.5
Logic Pro 10.4.5 | RME Fireface UFX | Adam A7 + Sub8 | Spectrasonics | Softube
 
Realgrey
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:28 am

@Eric Cardenas
Great suggestion ... I could even write a close script w/ Audomater that would move it for me post session.  I will give that a try.
Ron Flack
Realgrey Records
Logic Pro X 10.2.4, Mac Pro 3.7GHz Quad-Core 32GB RAM, El Capitan OS X, Focusrite Octopre Dynamics MKII, UAD Apollo Silver, UAD Apollo 16 MkII, UAD Twin Duo, KX8 midi controller, Korg SV1 digital Keyboard, C2 Hammond Organ, Rhodes 73 stage Mark I
 
RoyFan
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:34 am

Any luck?  was the problem solved?
Logic Pro X Version 10.2.2
OS X Version 10.9.5
3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
16 GB Memory
Interface - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
Midi keyboard - Yamaha Motif Es 8

http://www.reverbnation.com/RoyHoran
 
Realgrey
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Location: USA Canton Ohio
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:32 am

I'm away from the studio currently, I'll know tonight ... I'll mark the conversation resolved after I test.
Ron Flack
Realgrey Records
Logic Pro X 10.2.4, Mac Pro 3.7GHz Quad-Core 32GB RAM, El Capitan OS X, Focusrite Octopre Dynamics MKII, UAD Apollo Silver, UAD Apollo 16 MkII, UAD Twin Duo, KX8 midi controller, Korg SV1 digital Keyboard, C2 Hammond Organ, Rhodes 73 stage Mark I
 
Realgrey
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Location: USA Canton Ohio
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:31 am

@Eric Cardenas was correct ... working from the system drive (SSD) makes a huge difference.  So I think I've narrowed the problem to the Lacie.  I ran "First Aid" (system utility app) and it does seem to be performing a bit better.  So ... I guess the conclusion is a dedicated SSD to record to.  Thank's to all.  Much appreciated.
Ron Flack
Realgrey Records
Logic Pro X 10.2.4, Mac Pro 3.7GHz Quad-Core 32GB RAM, El Capitan OS X, Focusrite Octopre Dynamics MKII, UAD Apollo Silver, UAD Apollo 16 MkII, UAD Twin Duo, KX8 midi controller, Korg SV1 digital Keyboard, C2 Hammond Organ, Rhodes 73 stage Mark I
 
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Eric Cardenas
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:15 am

You're most welcome!
Eric Bradley Cardenas
EC Making Sound
Mac mini 2.6 GHz 16GB RAM Areca⚡RAID | MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz 16GB RAM | Os 10.14.5
Logic Pro 10.4.5 | RME Fireface UFX | Adam A7 + Sub8 | Spectrasonics | Softube
 
RoyFan
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Eric Cardenas wrote:
You're most welcome!

Eric, is a dedicated external SSD good enough?  I'm not that strong at "configing" drives... 
Can I try the same solution you suggested to the topic starter by just placing my projects on an external ssd?

if i was to use an internal ssd is there any additional things I have to do other than just buying an imac with an ssd?  '

do you think this is a common solution to the "playback audio and midi sync" issues i've been having since the beginning?
Logic Pro X Version 10.2.2
OS X Version 10.9.5
3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
16 GB Memory
Interface - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
Midi keyboard - Yamaha Motif Es 8

http://www.reverbnation.com/RoyHoran
 
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triplets
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:01 pm

is a dedicated external SSD good enough?

It's worth it if it's thunderbolt, that way you're taking advantage of it's speed.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.5.1, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
2012 i7 MBP 8 GB Logic 10.6.1, 10.15.7
Contact me for Logic help (Teamviewer, Zoom, Skype)
http://www.ultimatestudiosinc.com
 
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Eric Cardenas
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:16 am

RoyFan wrote:
Eric, is a dedicated external SSD good enough?  I'm not that strong at "configing" drives... 
Can I try the same solution you suggested to the topic starter by just placing my projects on an external ssd?

Sure, that works too.
Buy a decent USB3 enclosure and insert an SSD of your own choice.

RoyFan wrote:
if i was to use an internal ssd is there any additional things I have to do other than just buying an imac with an ssd?

You could do that or you could change the internal drive in your current Mac. This may or may not be PITA depending on which iMac you have.

RoyFan wrote:
do you think this is a common solution to the "playback audio and midi sync" issues i've been having since the beginning?

That totally depends on if it's the disk, CPU, your audio interface, or an unrelated service/application that is the culprit.
Eric Bradley Cardenas
EC Making Sound
Mac mini 2.6 GHz 16GB RAM Areca⚡RAID | MacBook Pro 2.3 GHz 16GB RAM | Os 10.14.5
Logic Pro 10.4.5 | RME Fireface UFX | Adam A7 + Sub8 | Spectrasonics | Softube
 
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Doye
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:40 am

You do not need any dedicated SSD to record to. Put in the largest SSD system drive you can buy and record all your projects to it. Use the Lacie as an external
backup but do not leave it hooked up whilst recording. 
15 inch Intel Quad Core i7 Macbook Pro, Samsung 840 Evo 500 Gig internal HD, 16 Gigs Ram, UAD Apollo Twin , Logic Pro X 10.4.1 Mac OSX Sierra 10.12.6, Event 20/20 Bas, Fender Stratocaster, Rode NT1A, Shure SM7B, SM 58s, SM 57s, Akai MPK 49, Presonus FIRESTUDIO PROJECT, ART Digital MPA 11, CloudLifter Mic Activator, Presonus Tube Pre, Behringer ADA 8000, Protools 12.5 API 2500 Bus Compressor, Nektar Panorama P1 control surface.
 
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triplets
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:07 am

Doye wrote:
You do not need any dedicated SSD to record to. Put in the largest SSD system drive you can buy and record all your projects to it. Use the Lacie as an external
backup but do not leave it hooked up whilst recording. 

Unfortunately that is not a cheap solution with a new mac pro.
Get a fast USB 3 HD from http://www.macsales.com and see how it goes.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.5.1, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
2012 i7 MBP 8 GB Logic 10.6.1, 10.15.7
Contact me for Logic help (Teamviewer, Zoom, Skype)
http://www.ultimatestudiosinc.com
 
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Doye
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:47 am

Triplets. I just had two OWC mercury elite pro USB 3/firewire 800 drive holders go dead. I got a G-Drive 1 TB thunderbolt/USB 3 going on me. Sounding like
a helicopter. Maybe it's my luck. If I had a new Mac pro. I would not use any external drive. Period :oops: 
15 inch Intel Quad Core i7 Macbook Pro, Samsung 840 Evo 500 Gig internal HD, 16 Gigs Ram, UAD Apollo Twin , Logic Pro X 10.4.1 Mac OSX Sierra 10.12.6, Event 20/20 Bas, Fender Stratocaster, Rode NT1A, Shure SM7B, SM 58s, SM 57s, Akai MPK 49, Presonus FIRESTUDIO PROJECT, ART Digital MPA 11, CloudLifter Mic Activator, Presonus Tube Pre, Behringer ADA 8000, Protools 12.5 API 2500 Bus Compressor, Nektar Panorama P1 control surface.
 
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triplets
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:49 pm

Doye wrote:
Triplets. I just had two OWC mercury elite pro USB 3/firewire 800 drive holders go dead. I got a G-Drive 1 TB thunderbolt/USB 3 going on me. Sounding like
a helicopter. Maybe it's my luck. If I had a new Mac pro. I would not use any external drive. Period :oops: 

Bummer!
That's bad luck for sure.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.5.1, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
2012 i7 MBP 8 GB Logic 10.6.1, 10.15.7
Contact me for Logic help (Teamviewer, Zoom, Skype)
http://www.ultimatestudiosinc.com
 
RoyFan
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:29 am

triplets wrote:
Doye wrote:
Triplets. I just had two OWC mercury elite pro USB 3/firewire 800 drive holders go dead. I got a G-Drive 1 TB thunderbolt/USB 3 going on me. Sounding like
a helicopter. Maybe it's my luck. If I had a new Mac pro. I would not use any external drive. Period :oops: 

Bummer!
That's bad luck for sure.

Guys - if freezing a lot of tracks usually takes care of my play back problems - does that hint at what the likely culprit is form the list Eric listed?
Disk, interface, other hardware/software clashing?  i.e. - likely Disc?  Would I be able to upload a project that often gives me playback problems with tracks unfrozen and see how it runs  on your work iMac triplets?  Since you seem to have a system very close to mine
Logic Pro X Version 10.2.2
OS X Version 10.9.5
3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
16 GB Memory
Interface - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2
Midi keyboard - Yamaha Motif Es 8

http://www.reverbnation.com/RoyHoran
 
ChrisJ
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:21 am

Hi and to chime in, I believe that Eric is right about the lacie, and it doing to sleep, there are technical things you can do to adjust this, I would suggest, first if there are any drivers update them, if there is any firmware for the drive update it. Speak to lacie ask them if there is any way you can use a hdparams style of app too to adjust the sleep time.

Also and concurrently, load the project and resave it, making all the audio a part of the project. The reason is you want to load the project on the local disk drive and also the lacie. Test each one out while you have the "Activity Monitor" app, open and on the disc tab, what is using all the disc activity, is it logic or is it something else. Try doing the same thing on the lacie too. Also check you 'energy' preferences, is it set to put the disk's to sleep?  Then look at loading the project waiting 10 min, then trying playback, does this makes any difference in either case for either the disk or the lacie.

You really have to quite methodical and rigorous in doing this test, but when you speak to lacie, clear data like this might well encourage them to advise you better, and let them know you have checked out all the possibilities.
MacBook Pro 2.2 GHz 16GB RAM
OS X Mavericks
Logic Pro 10.2.2
 
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triplets
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Re: Disc too slow or System overload ... still being an issue

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:11 pm

 Would I be able to upload a project that often gives me playback problems with tracks unfrozen and see how it runs  on your work iMac triplets?  Since you seem to have a system very close to mine

I don't use an iMac, just an 8-core Mac Pro from 2009. But I can test the project anyway.
Logic Pro 9 Master Pro and X certified
ProTools 10 & 11 Certified Operator
2 x 3.06 Intel Six-Core 24 GB RAM, Logic 10.5.1, 10.14.6., UA Apollo
2012 i7 MBP 8 GB Logic 10.6.1, 10.15.7
Contact me for Logic help (Teamviewer, Zoom, Skype)
http://www.ultimatestudiosinc.com