Drum kit designer versus drum machine designer - multi output

To wet your appetite about what MIGHT be possible, check out these DMD patches from LogicPro 10.4. They are not included anymore with 10.5+, but here (attached) are the old Electronic kit DMD presets that were included with 10.4 and earlier. They are based on Ultrabeat and use a lot of advanced bus routing inside the DMD stack. You can open these patches in newer versions of LogicPro and they work fine.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out how to create a similar DMD patch from scratch for a different instrument. But apparently the LogicPro patch format supports it...and LogicPro supports it...but its still a mystery as to how to use the LogicPro GUI to create something like this from scratch...

to try these, extract this archive into:

~/Music/Audio Music Apps/Patches/Instruments/

UltraBeat DMD 10.4.zip

I'd love to try to figure out a way to create DMD patches like this from scratch or to replace UltraBeat with a different instrument, etc. ,but every time I have tried to do that, the bus assignments get all lost and scrambled when I replace the instrument...and haven't been able to figure out a way to create from scratch in any other way. I even tried to tweak the raw Patch plist file in various ways...never got there.

But anyway the thread I linked earlier has something that is halfway there...and will probably suit your needs if you try it...

I am unable to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish. There may or may not be a way to do what you are trying to convey, but unfortunately I can't quite understand what you are wanting to do.

DRUMMER. DRUMMER. DRUMMER. Allow me try clarifying.

I want to have three DMD pads each trigger a unique/separate channel of the same multi-output instance of my 3rd party plugin. (Because the different channels would be easier to control if they had only one common instrument instead of needing three instances of that same plugin/instrument.)

 

This is possible, I already explained, as a multi-timbral instrument. You said something about multi-output, which I still don't understand exactly what you are needing.

And my post goes on (affirming that indeed it is possible): "Of course, my wish is already possible if I just want to input notes into piano roll / step sequencer, but it's not achievable with Drummer for reasons described above."

One has this feeling that Drummer doesn't defaultly work with multi-output and multi-timbral instrument, and setting it up to do so would be quite the PITA. So the casual user relies on several single-output instruments, as in David's description. However, in such a case here's what you end up with:

This looks like an absolute nightmare. There is snare, kick, cymbals, toms, etc... in total 8 DMD pads/cells/channels, and each of them has to have their own single-output plugin! (8 plugins in total!)

Whereas with multi-timbral or multi-output would look somewhat like this:

Now this looks like something neat and easily manageable. The image would represent 8 different DMD pads/cells/channels, all routed to 1 single multi-output or multi-timbral plugin. But since this is way more difficult set up (so that it works with Drummer), I suppose Apple would argue that the first image is the normal way to do things, while the latter is something they want to keep away from casual users and beginners!! When you look at these two images and also keep in mind that this is all about Drummer, perhaps you'll see the reasons why a single-output workflow is much inferior to a multi-output workflow.

This thread might help you: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148368&hilit=DMD

Well, this looks a bit time-consuming, but helpful nevertheless... as hopefully I have demonstrated that there are big problems with using single-output.

...My instrument doesn't give me the desired results when used with Drummer alone; DMD is also required....

Why do you need DMD ? If it's just for mapping the notes, then there are better ways to do it...

So what did you have in mind, considering I'm using Drummer? I'm really starting to dislike DMD; it's a big mess to use with 3rd party plugins, as you can see in my picture where there are 8 different windows or 8 different single-output plugins:

So what did you have in mind, considering I'm using Drummer?

Drummer generates the MIDI notes. You can use any instrument with Drummer.

So what did you have in mind, considering I'm using Drummer?

Drummer generates the MIDI notes. You can use any instrument with Drummer.

I can only use 1 channel of the given (3rd party) instrument with drummer. Drummer only triggers Channel 1. Drummer only triggers different pitches (of Channel 1), not different channels. See this picture I posted:

To get around this limitation, I used DMD.

Drummer cannot be triggered in multi-output mode. (Maybe with Ultrabeat, but not with my plugin.)

To get around this limitation, I used DMD.

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job?

Drummer cannot be triggered in multi-output mode. (Maybe with Ultrabeat, but not with my plugin.)

Drummer generates MIDI data, so as such it doesn't have an output mode. Only instruments can be multi-output, but Drummer is not an instrument. Or did you mean multi-channel?

To get around this limitation, I used DMD.

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job?

Actually DMD is a valid tool for the job. It allows me to do anything I want to do relating to Drummer; but unfortunately the workflow with DMD is cumbersome due to having to initialize 8 different single-output plugins. (So if I wanted to change what each channel does, or compare channel settings, I have to open up each of the 8 different plugins separately. Having 8 channels under one single plugin would be much handier.) I think I'll just play around with Transformer or Mapped Instrument (both Environment elements) until I'm satisfied.

Drummer cannot be triggered in multi-output mode. (Maybe with Ultrabeat, but not with my plugin.)

Drummer generates MIDI data, so as such it doesn't have an output mode. Only instruments can be multi-output, but Drummer is not an instrument. Or did you mean multi-channel?

My 3rd party plugin is supposed to act as the instrument which Drummer triggers.

This 1 plugin can generate 8 sounds (kick, snare, cymbal, hihat, tom etc...) into 8 different channels. I need Drummer to make use of each of these (instead of just one), and in lack of a simple solution, I have been using DMD to make Drummer use these 8 sounds.

See the thread I pointed you to, and please stopping complaining endlessly, this thread is going nowhere.

Hey, I'm just saying here, that we might be overcomplicating my 'problem', and the problem (and thus the solution) might be simpler than we see it. If it's not, then there is no other solution than the getting to grips with the routing stuff described in that thread.

Sounds like the wrong tool for the job?

Actually DMD is a valid tool for the job. (...) but unfortunately the workflow with DMD is cumbersome due to having to initialize 8 different single-output plugins.

That's why I believe it may be the wrong tool for the job.

See the thread I pointed you to, and please stopping complaining endlessly, this thread is going nowhere.

I'm not trying to come of as ungrateful, but I'm perplexed by your one-eyed view that DMD is the right tool. After considerable learning, I think I can finally prove that it's not. The thread you linked entails a lot of effort when there's a way to do things much more simply. Here's my proof:

Drummer track without an instrument --> "Mapped instrument" object --> Instrument track

Works perfectly.

Great it sounds like you go ally solved your own problem!

By the way I have no idea what exactly you’re trying to do a d at this point I don’t really care. I am not endorsing any particular technology, your posts were so double tongued confusing I couldn’t really understand WTF you were wanting to do because you made your posts too confusing. Questions were asked about DMD so i provided whatever answers I have. Glad to hear you have it sorted out!

I am not endorsing any particular technology, your posts were so double tongued confusing I couldn’t really understand WTF you were wanting to do because you made your posts too confusing.

Sorry, my bad.