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MIDI file opened in Logic is different (wrong) than other programs


tusitala

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Hi, I received a midi file from a composer friend whom i have to collaborate for this particular project.

I also got an mp3 so I know how the music sounds and I have a reference.

 

Problem is if I open it with Logic the tempo map is wrong...by wrong I mean it's different from the original.

 

But if I open the same file with other programs (I also work with Reaper and Digital Performer...he made it in Cubase by the way), there the tempo map is perfectly accurate...

 

Do you have any clue what this could be?

 

I tried both importing inside an existing new project, or "open with Logic" directly to the midi file, but the result is the same.

 

Thanks a lot in advance

 

All the best!

-t

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  • 2 weeks later...

thanks David for your help.

 

actually i tried and now after exporting it again the file is "clean" and doesn't contain the frog tempo information...so it must be something that happens when i first imported the original file.

 

I cannot share it now but maybe later when I'm done with this project i'll investigate further and ask you again to take a look at it.

 

thanks!

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I've also had the inverse problem where I've exported a MIDI file to a Cubase user.  All the notes were intact upon importing but the tempo map, including meter changes, were either missing or wrong.  We tried importing the same MIDI file into Pro Tools and everything was intact.  I wonder if Cubase is the culprit here.
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  • 3 years later...

Hi all,

I'm bumping this old thread I started, as I'm just encountering a similar problem.

 

I wrote a piece in Sibelius, and exported the midi file so that I can open it in a daw. I'll have to mix rerecorde stuff with some of The Sibelius audio (Noteperformer) in the mockup I'm producing. Therefore the audio and midi have to be in sync.

 

Well, if I open that midi file with Logic, the tempo map is not correct: some tempo information is randomly missing, making everything fall out of sync.

However if I open that same midi file in another DAW, everything is correct.

 

Is there any setting I should be aware - either in Sibelius or in Logic - to avoid this from happening?

 

Thanks

-t

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I have noticed that some daws use so called midifile cue points which are different from markers. For example in dp if you make a locked marker it ends up exported as a cue point. If it’s unlocked it gets exported as marker.

 

Logic can’t seem to recognize cue points during import I’m not sure why.

 

The midifile spec is pretty loosey goosey.

 

In my view logic pro should recognize cue points as scene markers.

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Thanks...I think it's even more basic than that but I can't understand how this could happen.

For example I have this piece that has a middle section at 114 BPM.

Every other software opens it up correctly, but in Logic that section shows up at 120 BPM and therefore everything goes out of sync.

Do you reckon there's a setting that I should be aware of? for example in the Sibelius "export as midi" dialogue there's a few different options (see attached picture)...do you know if any of those might affect this in some way?

4Kzj3tN.png

 

Thanks!

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Thanks...I think it's even more basic than that but I can't understand how this could happen.

For example I have this piece that has a middle section at 114 BPM.

Every other software opens it up correctly, but in Logic that section shows up at 120 BPM and therefore everything goes out of sync.

Do you reckon there's a setting that I should be aware of? for example in the Sibelius "export as midi" dialogue there's a few different options (see attached picture)...do you know if any of those might affect this in some way?

You might try exporting only the tempo map and see if it comes in correctly. This would weed out if any other instrument/track/channel data is somehow confusing or corrupting your tempo data.

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Thanks...I think it's even more basic than that but I can't understand how this could happen.

For example I have this piece that has a middle section at 114 BPM.

Every other software opens it up correctly, but in Logic that section shows up at 120 BPM and therefore everything goes out of sync.

Do you reckon there's a setting that I should be aware of? for example in the Sibelius "export as midi" dialogue there's a few different options (see attached picture)...do you know if any of those might affect this in some way?

4Kzj3tN.png

 

Thanks!

Post the MIDI file. Nobody is going to be able help you with out posting that MIDI file.

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Okay, here's the issue.

At timestamp 292, there's 3 entries with different tempos.

Now I only display a float value, but timestamp is a Float64 in CoreMidi.

 

I bet if I updated my code to display the whole timestamp using a Float64 setup, it would probably show that the 120 is the last of the 3.

 

So the real question is, why is your original source of the software putting in 3 different tempos at the same timestamp?

MidiOutput.png.3bdecc911f727bf4757f7a33241bfe65.png

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Looks logical to me:

- the first tempo is the last one belonging to the fermata (or a ritardando that isn't visible)

- the second one (120) is - possibly - the original tempo before the fermata (sort of like a "reset")

- the final one (114) is the new tempo as entered

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Sibelius 6 interprets the MIDI file correctly (although it looks like a mess and the values right of the decimal point of the tempo are slightly different from ValliSoftware's list).

Ableton Live 10 basically chokes on it and messes up everything after around measure 45 or so.

 

Finale 25 and Musescore 3 seem to have problems, too.

 

Interestingly all programs open the file in a completely different way:

 

Sibelius doesn't create a single staff by itself, however after adding one all tempo and time signature changes become visible.

Ableton needs you to drag the MIDI file into the arrangement. Tempo and time signature changes are there up to a certain measure; after this things get really weird.

Finale 25 creates a full staff list with all time signature but does not seem to have imported tempo information (despite having been told to do so).

Musescore creates an empty document without a single staff. When adding a single staff a single measure without time signature gets added. No other time signatures or tempo changes are visible throughout.

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Looks logical to me:

- the first tempo is the last one belonging to the fermata (or a ritardando that isn't visible)

- the second one (120) is - possibly - the original tempo before the fermata (sort of like a "reset")

- the final one (114) is the new tempo as entered

 

So you entered that in the source program that way?

 

If 20 notes are on the same timestamp time, who decides which notes go first, the program does, in this case Logic.

If you want control of that order, then you should enter 292.0000 for the first note, 292.0001 for the next note, 292.0003, etc...

Now you tell Logic which note plays in which order.

Get it, all notes at 292.0000, Logic decides the order, you specifying with incremental numbers, you decide the order.

 

So lets get back to your tempo issue.

Look at the following pics from your posted MIDI file.

62.png.df1819cd97a95a68375de231350ad244.png

114.png.ef42a0c359474d8dd88926befeb9172b.png

120.png.a40c270813ed4819e31a097c3eaadf58.png

 

All three entries are there and Logic sees them, but because you didn't specify an incremental number, .0000, .0001, .0002, etc on the timestamp time, Logic now decides the order because all the timestamps are the same. You want them in a specify order, add incremental numbers to the timestamp.

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Looks logical to me:

- the first tempo is the last one belonging to the fermata (or a ritardando that isn't visible)

- the second one (120) is - possibly - the original tempo before the fermata (sort of like a "reset")

- the final one (114) is the new tempo as entered

 

So you entered that in the source program that way?

 

That's not my file nor am I the author of this topic...

 

From reading through it the file was created in Cubase.

 

I largely concur with your findings. The applications that interpret the situation as originally intended probably take into account the order of the tempo changes in the file even if they are on the same timestamp. Logic perhaps sorts those from slowest to fastest.

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If you want to get to the bottom of this: Try to change the 114 BPM in Sibelius to something higher than 120 and export it again. If Logic then recognizes the new (higher) tempo it means that Logic sorts the events by value if they appear at the same timestamp.

(That wouldn't be a solution, though; it's merely to find out what exactly is going wrong here.)

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