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Logic vs FL vs Protools vs Ableton vs etc...


slayboi

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You're not asking much, lol. What you hear and what is actually the case is two completely different things. It's too wide a question, the obvious answer being that they all have pros and cons, and they will all the do the job if you know what you're doing. It really depends on what you want out of them. Hundreds of comparisons and discussions are available on the internet.
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Logic being outdated is a very funny remark.

Sounds like from someone who doesn't like Logic, or doesn't know its features or how to use them.

Considering it only costs 200 bucks, has no iLok and upgrade / update pricing, it's a bargain for all it comes with.

 

But your question is a bit too broad.

What do you want from a DAW?

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All of them sound better than the others, have a much more streamlined workflow, are the choice of real professionals as opposed to amateurs, are outdated, full of bugs, no longer supported by their manufacturer, completely revamped, recently got a facelift, still use outdated technology underneath, have better plug-ins than the others, and ultimately are the sole reason the music you produce is not as good as it could be.
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lol David, that made chuckle more than it should.

 

I think most people go with a DAW that matches their budget, surely?  

 

Simply put - If you want something like Ableton with the Push integration then that stands alone and nothing can really compete with it - but that combination is 3-4x the price of Logic for example, other than that you'd go FL for EDM, Pro Tools if you're serious about getting a career in a studio as it's still the standard, and Logic if you want a ton of content and plugins within a ready-made eco system.

 

There's also Studio One and Cubase which sits somewhere around the Pro Tools/Logic scope of things, all having their unique features and price points, of course.

 

And a real community favourite is Reaper as it's so cheap and flexible.

 

But, At the end of the day it's 'you' which will ultimately decide the final result... No matter how you build a track, it ultimately ends in your ears mixing it from left to right.

 

So, unless you have some specific needs it's very hard to compare.

 

Whats your budget?

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All of them sound better than the others, have a much more streamlined workflow, are the choice of real professionals as opposed to amateurs, are outdated, full of bugs, no longer supported by their manufacturer, completely revamped, recently got a facelift, still use outdated technology underneath, have better plug-ins than the others, and ultimately are the sole reason the music you produce is not as good as it could be.

perfect

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I can think of many other choices (in addition to what skijumptoes suggested), but IMO, one that's worth having a look if you're truly serious about jumping ship is BitWig. 

Totally agree. I actually have a copy of Bitwig 1.5 on standby if Logic never gets a good version of Live Loops in a future update. 

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Bitwig is great, i had the 8 track version with a piece of hardware, however, like a lot of newer DAW's it doesn't support SysEX, and Studio one as a further example doesn't support poly Aftertouch - so if you use external gear like Roland Synths/V Drums/Samplers etc. you can't automate parameters, patch selections and/or related hardware librarian plugins, and no poly AT means you can't utilise additional cymbal actions (i.e. mutes/clasps) either.  Likewise if you fancy using seaboard controllers, you need to check the DAW supports it.

 

In that regard Logic will always stand tall.  However, there's usually ways around all these things if you really need to, but it all comes down to budget eventually as all the good translation tools usually cost a fair amount too.

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Bitwig is great, i had the 8 track version with a piece of hardware, however, like a lot of newer DAW's it doesn't support SysEX, and Studio one as a further example doesn't support poly Aftertouch - so if you use external gear like Roland Synths/V Drums/Samplers etc. you can't automate parameters, patch selections and/or related hardware librarian plugins, and no poly AT means you can't utilise additional cymbal actions (i.e. mutes/clasps) either.  Likewise if you fancy using seaboard controllers, you need to check the DAW supports it.

 

In that regard Logic will always stand tall.  However, there's usually ways around all these things if you really need to, but it all comes down to budget eventually as all the good translation tools usually cost a fair amount too.

Bitwig is a kind of Ableton right? So whats the difference?

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i dunno dude, i see a profound learning curve with that....

If you've ever threaded a tape machine, oddly, there is a real learning curve to that... plus alignment, setting bias, punching in accurately, punching out accurately, editing with a razor blade, using paper leader, dealing with crosstalk, print through and runaway transports... ah... the good ole' days.

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If you've ever threaded a tape machine, oddly, there is a real learning curve to that... plus alignment, setting bias, punching in accurately, punching out accurately, editing with a razor blade, using paper leader, dealing with crosstalk, print through and runaway transports... ah... the good ole' days.

I used to do all of that stuff.... now I wouldn't even know how to do it anymore. How quick we forget. Back then, the length of a crossfade was dictated by the angle at which you'd cut the tape... and yeah you can still hear print-through on some of those old albums!!!

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Bitwig is a kind of Ableton right? So whats the difference?

Yeah i think some of the Ableton team went over to create Bitwig.

 

Although it is Ableton-like in terms of how you work with loops and scenes, the timeline is very much a feature more than Ableton, i.e. you don't swap between a session/clips view so much, rather you can use them in conjunction to build songs within the single screens - and it all fits!. I would happily use bitwig for genres other than EDM, and even if you write rock songs it's great being able to try out different riffs with different bass/drums/rythm guitar parts as an ideas builder.

 

However, while it doesn't look so smart on still screenshots, the workflow and stability in Bitwig is much improved vs Ableton.  It's very quick and has some cool features that otherwise needs max4live devices in Ableton, i.e. the way VST's interlink with one another and grouping and routing is really advanced, and external controller support is done nicely too.  Plus the drag and drop works really well, particularly in the device areas.

 

However, There were quite a few basic functions missing when i tried it too (8-12 months back), i don't think you could draw fades onto the regions for example. So don't know how far development has gone with it.

 

Also, as it comes in the one flavour, like Logic, you get everything with it.  Whereas with Ableton you have to jump to the Suite version just to get the sampler device which is what really makes Ableton imo.  So that $200 difference has to be taken into consideration.

 

I was running it on Ubuntu (Linux) too, and i was really sceptical about it running good, but it did run fantastic.  That is massive if it continues to grow as you could effectively get a hugely powerful machine at a fraction of the cost of Apple, yet still get the security/reliability of a Unix/Linux OS.  For anyone currently concerned with how Apple hardware may be going that's probably why many have an eye on Bitwig.

 

Trouble is running on Linux i couldn't really gauge how CPU friendly it is vs my Mac/Logic setup as they're quite different machines.  But i have had problems with Ableton in the past when loaded up with plugins.

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Bitwig is a kind of Ableton right? So whats the difference?

Yeah i think some of the Ableton team went over to create Bitwig.

[abitofarant] As much as I appreciate the great answer skijumptoes gave, I also can't but wonder about the normality of questions like itssofly's these days. Take it how you want, but I'm not actually attacking itssofly, but just saying that it's so so so common these days for people to ask questions like this and get some friendly soul to give them a pre-chewed and thought-out response, instead of just, say, going to BitWig and Ableton sites, reading product descriptions, checking out a couple of videos on both, perhaps trying demos and making up their own mind. Again, I'm NOT trying to be an ass to itssofly, but just pointing out this "internet way of shortcut thinking". While there are seemingly easier ways to gather info than going thru all the effort yourself, NOTHING beats actually doing stuff yourself and learning from the basics up, by actual real life experience, where every mistake and practical dilemma and solution teaches you how to do something and why you would perhaps pick one app over the other, if the solution is easier in one, for eg. Getting recommendations from peers regarding a DAW might steer you to the right path, but it's still YOU who is in the studio and YOU should try out and learn if something works for you, and why, not just take it from a bunch of forum-ers. [/rant]

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Yeah i think some of the Ableton team went over to create Bitwig.

[abitofarant] As much as I appreciate the great answer skijumptoes gave, I also can't but wonder about the normality of questions like itssofly's these days. Take it how you want, but I'm not actually attacking itssofly, but just saying that it's so so so common these days for people to ask questions like this and get some friendly soul to give them a pre-chewed and thought-out response, instead of just, say, going to BitWig and Ableton sites, reading product descriptions, checking out a couple of videos on both, perhaps trying demos and making up their own mind. Again, I'm NOT trying to be an ass to itssofly, but just pointing out this "internet way of shortcut thinking". While there are seemingly easier ways to gather info than going thru all the effort yourself, NOTHING beats actually doing stuff yourself and learning from the basics up, by actual real life experience, where every mistake and practical dilemma and solution teaches you how to do something and why you would perhaps pick one app over the other, if the solution is easier in one, for eg. Getting recommendations from peers regarding a DAW might steer you to the right path, but it's still YOU who is in the studio and YOU should try out and learn if something works for you, and why, not just take it from a bunch of forum-ers. [/rant]

Precisely!  This is why, when I decided to jump the Digital Performer ship, I took over 3 months downloading and evaluating every daw trial version or free "lite" version that I could (Reaper, Pro Tools, Ableton, Bitwig, Studio One, Cubase, Reason, Sonar, and others).  I already owned Logic and DP.  Not sure that I even read a single review on any of them.  I tried to ignore learning curve issues, cosmetic issues, and the "well soandso does it this way" whining.  Instead, I tried to produce a small project, from beginning to end with each one, trying all of the operations I would normally do (for my type of projects).  My basic workflow being primarily as a digital tape machine / mixer, with audio, external and in-the-box midi tracks.  Also considered how many of my VIs and other plug-ins would have to be replaced.  In the end, Logic Pro X won out, hands down.  Not saying it would be the best for anyone else, but for me, it is.

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Spot on Mr Darude! :) - For me a good DAW gives me a finished product that i'm proud/happy with.  That's really the bottom line, and as much frustration that Logic can bring, i'm always at my most creative with it, and no amount of technical specs, or recommendations can convey that.

 

However, i still feel that unless you're stealing the tools you're using, budget ultimately is king so any movement/choice happens within that.  However, When i originally went Ableton Suite with Push i impulsively (Late night, had a few drinks) decided i 'needed' it for live play and HAD to have it for the weekend, so just went monthly payments (plus a damn programmable laser lol). (tut tut lol).  And now it gets no use.  That was a spend that was out of my budget at the time, and shows the evil of monthly payments! :)

 

I can bash out tunes in half an hour in Ableton using Push, lift samples from vinyl in seconds with it, chop it, loop it, sync it up is a breeze - the workflow and speed is insane, but, ultimately, i really find it hard to jump out of the grid and produce the recorded music i want with it.  With Logic i'm far more measured and thoughtful, but there's no way i can apply that mindset to anyone else.  It's just who i am and what mental hangups/obsessions i have as to what works or not.

 

So referring to your point above, you're spot on, as there's really no way you can convey that to someone when asking "What's the best?" or "How does x compare with y?" because it's so incredibly subjective, you get the same talk with people comparing synthesisers, and particularly with Digital/VST vs Analog snobbery - just use what works, and what you can afford.

 

One thing though, i do think it's helpful to know if particular aspects like are missing from a DAW, i was having a great time with Studio One, had checked on forums, ran the demo, checked specs etc. I Was at a point where i'd lost faith in Apple and their hardware, and so wanted to move to a cross platform DAW in anticipation of maybe jumping ship,  And i literally paid for the pro version within a few days of the demo, i was super happy with it.

 

Then, it started, i began to find bugs, realised that while the whole drag and drop thing was 'cool' during the demo, it kinda went against the way i'm used to working when i started putting a project together.  Then, the bombshell, i went to automate some of my older Roland gear and dang! Brick wall, was unable to do so due to lack of SysEx support.

 

Ultimately came running back to Logic, and i'm just gonna stay for the long haul now, i'm not fussed what apple do in the future as i'd be quite happy with my ageing Mac Pro and what i have here in front of me, in fact i'm looking forward to falling out of date with OS and Logic revisions and holding a stable environment, it can only be a year or so away.  I'll then be left with a system that just works with no interruptions.  Bliss! :)

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Asking because I'm hearing that logic is outdated nowadays...

I would LOVE to hear the rationing behind this :lol:

Download all the major DAWS that have trials and see which one sits your workflow...that is it. And really, avoid visiting certain DAW forums (ie: Steinberg), as they are chauk full of users claiming they are full of bugs, etc. Honestly though, this forum (Log pro Help) is one of the few that are actually helpful and positive in that regard.

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Always bear in mind that every project (or, industry), pragmatically must 'standardize' on something, since they don't want to live in the Tower of Babel.  They're spending lots of money(!) producing music-files and sound-files and swapping them all over the place, so they must all be "speaking the same language and using the same tool-sets."  This is a pragmatic necessity which really has nothing at all to do with the "merits" of the tools in question.  (With any software tool, sometimes "you curse at it, then stare at it, then find a way to make it work, and move on.")  So, really, there is no "versus" consideration:  you use what the project or the industry or the customer requires.

 

(BTW: "that industry is never going to change its chosen standard."  There's prohibitive business-risk, and no return on investment.  There's work to be done, and they've arrived at a reliable way for everyone to do that work, and it works, and "that's that.")

 

Today, we live with "an embarrassment of riches" that artists even twenty years ago would never have dreamed of ... and, there is no end in sight.  There are not only these commercial tools, but some venerable open-source tools such as "LMMS" and (the music-scoring program) "MuseScore" and too-many other great tools to name.  So, regardless of your budget, or the fact that you don't have one, you CAN make music with your computer.  Artists and companies used to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to approximate what you now have, always pushing the limits of "the technology of that time."

 

Unless you anticipate working in an industry or niche that has standardized upon something else, Logic Pro (X) is an excellent and relatively trouble-free choice simply because it is backed by a major producer of excellent, tightly-integrated(!), software and hardware.  (Hell, GarageBand has lately turned itself into "Logic Pro (Not-So) Lite!")  This very-happy hobbyist has never plumbed the depths of it, and I'm certain that I never will.

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Bitwig is a kind of Ableton right? So whats the difference?

Yeah i think some of the Ableton team went over to create Bitwig.

 

Although it is Ableton-like in terms of how you work with loops and scenes, the timeline is very much a feature more than Ableton, i.e. you don't swap between a session/clips view so much, rather you can use them in conjunction to build songs within the single screens - and it all fits!. I would happily use bitwig for genres other than EDM, and even if you write rock songs it's great being able to try out different riffs with different bass/drums/rythm guitar parts as an ideas builder.

 

However, while it doesn't look so smart on still screenshots, the workflow and stability in Bitwig is much improved vs Ableton.  It's very quick and has some cool features that otherwise needs max4live devices in Ableton, i.e. the way VST's interlink with one another and grouping and routing is really advanced, and external controller support is done nicely too.  Plus the drag and drop works really well, particularly in the device areas.

 

However, There were quite a few basic functions missing when i tried it too (8-12 months back), i don't think you could draw fades onto the regions for example. So don't know how far development has gone with it.

 

Also, as it comes in the one flavour, like Logic, you get everything with it.  Whereas with Ableton you have to jump to the Suite version just to get the sampler device which is what really makes Ableton imo.  So that $200 difference has to be taken into consideration.

 

I was running it on Ubuntu (Linux) too, and i was really sceptical about it running good, but it did run fantastic.  That is massive if it continues to grow as you could effectively get a hugely powerful machine at a fraction of the cost of Apple, yet still get the security/reliability of a Unix/Linux OS.  For anyone currently concerned with how Apple hardware may be going that's probably why many have an eye on Bitwig.

 

Trouble is running on Linux i couldn't really gauge how CPU friendly it is vs my Mac/Logic setup as they're quite different machines.  But i have had problems with Ableton in the past when loaded up with plugins.

Thanks for reply.

Interesting I have looked at photos on google and youtube it looks like Ableton and the regions looks like the Logic regions :P The transport bar also.

 

 

About the fades in ableton you must to activate the fade by the parameters maybe in bitwig too.

 

 

Did you have seen the totally price of Fruity loops All plugins  € 810,04   :shock: its crazy haha. Logic with €200 and free updates is much better :P

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Did you have seen the totally price of Fruity loops All plugins  € 810,04   :shock: its crazy haha. Logic with €200 and free updates is much better :P

 

BUT with FL Studio, once you buy it you get updates FOR LIFE, both major and non-major updates. No other company offers this, not even Logic. So that's something to consider.

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Logic with €200 and free updates is much better

So many people don't see how cheap Logic actually is.

 

To which the standard reply is, we are paying for the hardware through the nose. Personally, I love Logic, but am wary of Apple now in a way I never used to be. I don't have any hard experience with any other DAW (other than Reaper, which I found clunky), so I can't really comment on the others. When I tally up how much I've spent on Logic since I got on board in 2007 with Logic 7 Express, the sum isn't insubstantial. Of course, it was way more expensive before I got into it, and therefore a lot of people who have been on Logic longer than I have forked out way more than I. When I look around, though, Logic is what suits me best.

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So many people don't see how cheap Logic actually is.

 

To which the standard reply is, we are paying for the hardware through the nose. Personally, I love Logic, but am wary of Apple now in a way I never used to be. I don't have any hard experience with any other DAW (other than Reaper, which I found clunky), so I can't really comment on the others. When I tally up how much I've spent on Logic since I got on board in 2007 with Logic 7 Express, the sum isn't insubstantial. Of course, it was way more expensive before I got into it, and therefore a lot of people who have been on Logic longer than I have forked out way more than I. When I look around, though, Logic is what suits me best.

you've used a number of paid versions of an app for a decade; that's usually how things work. but anyway... why are you 'wary of Apple now in a way I never used to be'? just wondering what that means..

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I can think of many other choices (in addition to what skijumptoes suggested), but IMO, one that's worth having a look if you're truly serious about jumping ship is BitWig. 

 

Bitwig is pretty amazing. A completely different approach in many ways though. That isn't a criticism; far from it. Having two DAWs with very different creative approaches is a really good thing in my book. Whichever one is not your main DAW forces you to approach a creative task differently when you use it.

 

Bitwig is still too immature for things like scoring, but as a creative space it's amazing.

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Yeah i think some of the Ableton team went over to create Bitwig.

[abitofarant] As much as I appreciate the great answer skijumptoes gave, I also can't but wonder about the normality of questions like itssofly's these days. Take it how you want, but I'm not actually attacking itssofly, but just saying that it's so so so common these days for people to ask questions like this and get some friendly soul to give them a pre-chewed and thought-out response, instead of just, say, going to BitWig and Ableton sites, reading product descriptions, checking out a couple of videos on both, perhaps trying demos and making up their own mind. Again, I'm NOT trying to be an ass to itssofly, but just pointing out this "internet way of shortcut thinking". While there are seemingly easier ways to gather info than going thru all the effort yourself, NOTHING beats actually doing stuff yourself and learning from the basics up, by actual real life experience, where every mistake and practical dilemma and solution teaches you how to do something and why you would perhaps pick one app over the other, if the solution is easier in one, for eg. Getting recommendations from peers regarding a DAW might steer you to the right path, but it's still YOU who is in the studio and YOU should try out and learn if something works for you, and why, not just take it from a bunch of forum-ers. [/rant]

 

I think you make a great point, but I would also say that he/she can still do what you just said after asking the question and receiving an answer. Perhaps the answer might help them do what you suggest more efficiently.

 

That maybe what you were saying in your last sentence(s). I wasn't sure.

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To which the standard reply is, we are paying for the hardware through the nose. Personally, I love Logic, but am wary of Apple now in a way I never used to be. I don't have any hard experience with any other DAW (other than Reaper, which I found clunky), so I can't really comment on the others. When I tally up how much I've spent on Logic since I got on board in 2007 with Logic 7 Express, the sum isn't insubstantial. Of course, it was way more expensive before I got into it, and therefore a lot of people who have been on Logic longer than I have forked out way more than I. When I look around, though, Logic is what suits me best.

you've used a number of paid versions of an app for a decade; that's usually how things work. but anyway... why are you 'wary of Apple now in a way I never used to be'? just wondering what that means..

I don't like their business M.O. on a number of fronts.

1) I don't like the annual OS upgrades that add more 'features' that I absolutely have no use for. Further, my experience with playing the upgrade game ended up making my 2011 mini-server (quad i7) unuseable as a recording machine. It seems to be planned obsolescence via OS updates. YMMV, but that is my experience. Almost every OS upgrade has degraded the performance of Logic.

2) I had to buy a new iPad for Logic Remote because my early 2012 iPad, though still perfectly functional, wouldn't connect Remote under ios 9, and that iPad wasn't upgradable to ios 10. Modern problems, I know, but....

3) Removing the option on the smaller iMacs to upgrade the memory myself. My iMac is a beast so I could upgrade the RAM myself, but what if I can't afford a beast when this one goes? Lowering the specs on the Mini because, it seems, they were taking a bite out of iMac and other unit sales.

4) Their unpredictability when it comes to in/outs. I mean, from what I've read, they've done away with headphone jacks on the new iPhones (which I don't own), and they keep changing the 'standard' for high-speed data transfer... Firewire 1...FW 2...Thunderbolt... USB C.

 

So, it just seems to me that Apple is mostly concerned with pushing their customer base onto the hardware upgrade treadmill, and I am starting to resent it.

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