Best trill notation

There seems to be a lot of opinions about the best way to notate a trill.... Here's what I've come up with but I would love input and/or confirmation that I'm either correct or an imbecile.  I want a trill between A and Bb to go for two beats... Here's what I have... 

suggestions?

Edited August 14, 2017 by DanRad

screen shot not visible.. FYI

I can see it when I open page....Here it is again.

The following is what I was taught, which is no assurance of truth. Moreover, notation is a language, and all languages are dynamic. 

 

1. I would discourage the use of a dotted sixteenth no matter where it is placed, as it suggests a specific duration. As there is no treble note in bar 39, that makes the dotted sixteenth look all the more like it should be played as a stand-alone note -- and that's confusing because there are no previous rests to fill out bar 38 if it is a separate voice, or shortening of the preceding half-note if it is the same voice. 

 

2. I wouldn't use a trill accidental note (of any duration). I read mostly classical scores, and there the norm is a simple flat next to the "tr" without any note at all.  The accidental comes before the wavy line. 

 

3. The key signature is F major / D minor. A half step trill on A would alternate with Bb as a default. The (redundant) flat would only be suggested if the previous bars were chromatic in such a way as to obscure the trill interval.  There's no evidence of that here.  If there is any ambiguity, of course, we use the accidental. But here, it would be a strange player who trilled with a B natural. (There is always a tension between what clutters the page, what makes our intent clear, and what insults the player by its obviousness.) 

 

In "Music Notation," Gardner Read says, "...it is generally understood that the trill takes in the diatonic (natural scale) step above the written note, unless altered by an accidental."

 

4. The tr symbol goes directly over the note -- but I know you know that. This may be screenshot from a view other than the part of conductor's score, and no program scrunches musical symbols like Logic when we change views.  

Plowman I always enjoy reading your explanations...

I can only describe what I was taught without knowing the history behind why...

 

The use of the chevron (squiggle line) is an older style of notating trills and used in classical pieces.

Trills always go up a whole step based on the key the piece is in.

If you want to go up a half step - this is indicated with an accidental above the TR symbol. 

 

Also - not sure what happened in the image capture - but your object proceeding the chevron appears to be incorrect.... please confirm image.

Example....based on my limited knowledge....

 

Thanks for this input... I didn't even notice that the note was dotted... I probably would have seen it, but thanks for pointing that out..I certainly I would have fixed that... but good catch.

 

As this is NOT a classical piece and highly chromatic, I do feel that the notes "To be trilled" must be identified and I've certainly seen this many times. I've also seen trills that go below the "target" note as well as intervals other than 2nds.   Without knowing the chord, I would expect it to be played as indicated by the key sig... so I will remove the "courtesy" accidental, but as mentioned above, often, it's not necessarily a diatonic choice.

 

  I will place the tr above the note.. that "tr" is in the jazz font and admittedly not that easy to read.  I may change the font for that indication.  Side note, I love the jazz font for notes, but am not wild about the text font.  

 

Thanks for all the input... Ski, anything to add?

I appreciate this discussion  and all the contributions - how about notating the trill simply putting  a trill sign without the accidental (as in bass clef trill in the example below of the Back 2 Part invention) and then writing above it  'Bb/A trill' ?  similar to Greg's suggestion above, but with the actual Trill Sign prominent above the note and any any written text discreetly small just above the stave?

Thanks for that input... I still think the clearest way to get what I want is as above (sans dot and courtesy accidental... pretend it's a natural).