Jump to content

Articulation control scripts?


fernandraynaud

Recommended Posts

Looks like there are some different scripts for sale now. Has anyone tested them all ? 

 

I was hoping for automatic porting of Articulations to notation marks, but apparently only manually inserting them is what's possible in Logic. 

 

Babylon Waves' Art Conductor creates an Automation lane that will display articulation names and will trigger w/ keyswitches. Looks like the automation lane is visible in editors and editable, which would help with marking up the notation. Don't know if it can handle the more complicated requirements of some plugins. But it's the cheapest. 

 

SkiSwitcher is more complex/complete but from what I can see doesn't present a standard editable automation lane. They say using an automation lane is crude and prone to problems. Internals apparently use MIDI channels to represent 16 different articulations, which is nice and portable, and should be visible in editors to help with marking notation. 

 

ArtzID (from the same source) uses Articulation ID field on notes instead, which chases better and offers 127 articulations instead of 16, but is Logic-proprietary, which could be trouble if you need to export, especially since the Art ID field is not available in Logic Transforms. More expensive than SkiSwitcher.

 

AudioGrocery Logic Articulation Complete includes a standalone mac app to create articulation mappings, that are then uploaded and triggered in a script to send out keyswitches, CC changes and on separate MIDI channels as needed. They said they gave up on Art IDs as being not mature enough to use. It also includes templates for Lemur and TouchOSC to run remotely on an iPad. This seems like the most versatile one, but also the most expensive. 

 

Anybody try them all or at least  a couple? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use AG, I bought but didn't end up using SS, I have researched ArtzID and ArtConductor.

There is far more on VI-c than here about these and all three devs are regulars there so you can easily ask questions direct to Ivan(AG), Peter Schwartz and Babylon Waves - the magic of the interwebs! Actually I think they all post here as well!

 

AG has a lot. It is also a bit daunting. The dev is not subtle in discussions;) But wow it is incredible. There are so many options there. It used to take a long time to manually edit the scripts for every instrument but the new tools make that much faster. And there's the new iPad stuff... it is just so vast and amazing, especially for the price IMHO.

 

If you want to see artics in the automation and you want advanced custom options then AG. If you want artics in the automation lane and ArtConductor has your libs and you simple needs then go there. If you like the look of Peter's way to use midi channels, more of the event list and the recent stuff he has come up with to use smart controls - then start there.

 

If you've got a lot of libs it's gonna be an investment in time...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have used and even reviewed them all. Go with one of the two Peter Schwartz solutions.

I'm a long time AG Toolkit user and I've read your article review on the Ask.Audio site, but that was from 3 years ago.. have you checked out the latest AG Toolkit version 5 with the iPad and Main Stage integration?  I'm asking because the latest v5 update is paid one - so you may or not have checked out the update...

 

I'm not a Cubase user at all but based on what I've seen from YouTube videos creating articulation maps in the AG Software Editor seems to be 10 times quicker than in Cubase, because of the multi maps selection and batch processing functions which you can edit quickly using key commands. You can move and organize the articulations into groups, make easy remote custom mapping, import/merge maps, coloring etc., which is not even possible in the Scripter as far as I know.

 

The new AG Piano Roll Articulation names view is really cool too :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The AG Toolkit is very good but  for me at least, the learning curve was considerably steeper, and I am pretty good with this stuff.

I understand and agree that the learning curve might be steeper but that's only because the AG Toolkit by far has the most features out all of the other articulation switchers out there. Here's the thing though... I'm actually admittedly not that great with this stuff. But Ivan always includes pretty detailed tutorial videos to help us figure this stuff out, so if I can do it, anybody can ;) In addition to this, his support is excellent.. he always responds pretty quickly if you get stuck with anything.

Edited by anp27
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's also a Kontakt-specific open source script called FlexRouter ... It's a Kontakt script that converts note or CC or Program Change triggers and converts them to e.g. note keyswitches. As of version 2.2.1 it seems to have some flexibility built-in for odd cases. 

 

That might be a way to standardize one's madly diverse libraries to respond to a common set of  UACC keyswitches. Then I guess a simple send of CC #32 values from a set of pads (or whatever) recorded into the MIDI track should chase ok? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently had a lengthy email exchange with a prospective customer in which we discussed many of these exact points, so while it's all fresh in my memory I'd like to address a few of them. 

 

The display of articulation names in the automation lane is not really a "standard" because there really are no standards for these 3rd party articulation-switching systems. Of course I could flatter myself and think that my way of doing things should be the standard, but I'm not like that. The widespread use of my systems, Art Conductor and the AG stuff proves that there is no standard. And that's a good thing, because no two composers have exactly the same needs, let alone the same collection of libraries. Hence, one system might be more suitable for a particular composer's needs than another. One customer told me that he's using ArtConductor on his laptop and ARTz•ID on his main rig. I think that's cool.  8-)

 

Returning to the subject of articulation names… they can indeed be displayed in SkiSwitcher 3. Just put a track into Latch and get automation to show the "Live+Track" articulation name menu of the Scripter. But here’s the thing…

 

Getting Logic to display articulation names isn't any kind of special feature. It's just standard Logic fare -- being able to display a plugin parameter in automation (here, a Scripter menu). Such a display is indeed practical for SkiSwitcher (16 articulations per track), but not for ARTz•ID, where upwards of 126 names would get cramped into the vertical space of an automation lane. 

 

Strange but true, in light of the huge number of systems I've sold, only perhaps 3 customers have requested having this kind of feature. But it's not like SS3 or ARTz•ID users have to work in the blind; when it comes to viewing articulation names there are actually two name displays, available in both the Scripters and the Smart Controls.

 

I totally understand the draw of seeing articulation names in automation. But I've found that most composers don't seem to really need this feature, because they know their own music and naturally memorize what articulation is played by any given note. But again, to each his own. If someone wants or needs to see articulation changes in automation, then that’s what they need. No argument there. 

 

My approach to articulation-switching is to embed each note with articulation information. With SkiSwitcher, the MIDI channel (normally unused) acts as an articulation identifier. With ARTz•ID, Logic’s actual Articulation ID feature is used instead. Here’s a short list of why this is advantageous…

 

• First off, you can click on a note in any editor and hear it instantly sound with the correct articulation. This is invaluable when changing articulations post-recording, or for manually entering articulation choices to notes as many composers do when step entering notes into Logic or importing MIDI files from Sibelius or other notation programs. And because every note selects its own articulation, each note in a chord can be made to play with a different articulation. That’s not possible with automation-based systems as far as I’m aware.

 

• When copying/pasting notes, or moving regions from one track to another, there’s no “secondary layer” of articulation information (automation or CC's) to have to be concerned about moving as well. 

 

• Finally, with both SS3 and ARTzID you can select an articulation to play live and it can’t be switched out from under you by articulation changes occurring in a track. So here you have complete independence between the sound that’s active on your keyboard and what’s playing back from the track. I’m not sure this is even possible using automation-based systems.

 

As for Articulation ID not being "mature enough", I don't really know what that's supposed to mean! After all, ARTz•ID works exclusively by utilizing Logic's built-in Articulation ID feature, so...

 

Moving on to score markup… the short story is that symbols and dynamic markings cannot be “forced” into the Score Editor by reading articulation change information from a track. It hasn't been possible since Logic 7 (if ever!) and remains an unrequited feature request. If only…  :wink:

 

Regarding one system being more complex or complete than another... I'm not sure what "complete” means in light of the fact that no two composers have the same libraries or approaches to setting up their plugins. I like to think that my systems are simple in that there aren't an endless number of Scripts to have to choose from. If you think about it, there are really only three or four methods for switching articulations, so it doesn't require a huge number of Scripts to address them all: Keyswitching, UACC, multi-timbral MIDI, and EXS-24 (articulation ID).

 

Vienna Instruments, Cinematic Strings and Cinematic Studio Strings are amongst the specialty Scripts that come with my systems because they require a more complex set of MIDI-based articulation switching “instructions” to choose any given sound. But they also provide features that overcome shortcomings in the way those patches work, even expanding on their native capabilities.

 

As for price… And I think this is true for my systems, Art Conductor, and AG… All of our systems represent great value for the price. The time-saving, aggravation-saving, and creative benefits of using any 3rd party system becomes evident very quickly once you get them up and running. What you’re paying for not only gets you the benefit of each developer’s expertise in articulation switching, but you’re also getting customer support — something that has to be taken into consideration when it comes to price.

 

In closing, to fernandraynaud, I hope you settle on a system that works best for your needs. If it’s one of mine, well, that’ll be great. But if it’s one of the others, that’s great too. Building templates and getting them to switch articulations accurately is both a dream and a nightmare for every digital composer/orchestrator. The most important thing for YOU is to find the system that works best for your needs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I admire the ingenuity of the developers behind these solutions (I own the Babylon Waves system), but think that Apple needs to Sherlock this functionality and quickly. I had my first introduction to Expression Maps via Dorico, and the simplicity and universality of that system made me start thinking about Cubase.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had my first introduction to Expression Maps via Dorico, and the simplicity and universality of that system made me start thinking about Cubase.

I'm a cross Cubase & Logic user since the first versions of these applications. I admire that you have noted that the Steinberg Expression Maps are far away regarding your poor Logic articulation switching alternative. The Steinberg Maps (Art Mapping idea) is the best, because it is designed to work with all sorts of old, current and future Instruments and you do not have to wait for the next Scripter version (provided by your Art developer) which is specially designed for a specific Instrument. This is typical for all homemade Scripter based tools offered on the market or the free ones.

 

At this moment, all Articulation switching systems which are based ONLY on the Scripter are absolutely poor and limited and cannot be compared to the Cubase Expression Maps.

We at Audio Grocery (AG) clearly realized the technical limitation of the Logic Scripter MIDI FX plugin and decided to use it only as an Articulation Player and develop a powerful stand alone software Logic Articulation Maps EDITOR which is based on the Cubase Expression Maps technology. During the new AG EDITOR software development we focused on two important points:

1. We had to developed a similar EDITOR which can be used from the Cubase users (who are used to that system), knowing that one day we will create a hybrid Cubase/Logic compatible Articulation mapping software - we are working on that...

2. We had to develop a much better Articulation Maps system than the Cubase Maps which includes: lots of simultaneous Map selection & editing batch functions, powered by quick key commands (which is not possible in Cubase yet), as well as to create an unique iPad Articulation teleport system which exports the Articulation Maps to an iPad remote application and creates iPad remote layouts automatically with the correspondent Articulations Names, Group Names, Colors etc which correspond to the DAW ones - this is revolutionary!

 

Regarding your Cubase migration. It as an awesome application which will give you more additional features for some specific projects. To be honest there is a problem with the Expression Maps time creation. The Maps Editor does not offer quick batch Maps creation and parameters multi selection editing, so you have to create Map by Map manually and this is really weird and takes 10 times more than the AG Maps Editor software for example.

 

Note: My reply is related to "Cubase vs Logic Art Maps" mostly, just to give you a clear idea of the technical specifics.

AG

Edited by Audiogrocery
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked at all the options and bought ski's artzid.  I haven't done much with it, but I checked it out thoroughly and I'm happy with my choice as I like the simplicity of it and it does what it needs to do.  I very much like the concept of using articulationID to control the....well...articulation.  As pointed out earlier...you can hit play from anywhere and it plays the correct keyswitch.  He provides a complex environment macro to encode the articulation id's into every note in real time as you play it.  In addition, a few different midi scripts to translate during playback those articulation id's into various keyswitches as required by your sample library.  It works as advertised, and is nice and simple.  I actually do NOT want to have to muck around with an automation lane at all, plus as pointed out, when I click on a note in the pianoroll, the correct articulation plays!

 

additionally, i was able to make my own midi scripts to accommodate special situations and it wasn't hard to adapt what ski had done already.

 

I haven't actually used AG or any other offerings, they do look to be more sophisticated in some way that I don't understand, but just watching the videos and stuff related to what they do made me realize they are complicated, while artzID is very easy and simple to use.  I might feel differently if I tried out AG also, but I don't plan to since artzID is working fine.   

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I remember, I was very impressed by the ArtzID system. What I personally need (and this is not a priority for everyone) is some way that I can visually see the articulation changes from the notation editor or piano roll. I get the impression that other than via automation nodes this isn't easy or even possible to implement for a third party in Logic.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

its an interesting point...and I don't think there is a way right now..   It would be great if logic could provide a way to display the articulation id in the actual piano roll by color...or allow the score editor to reflect articulation ID's as certain notation enhancements.  MAKE A REQUEST TO APPLE!   But as of today, yes I can see that would be a disadvantage of using the art id.  

 

You can see the art id in the event list.

 

I still prefer using art id for the simplicity that comes from having the articulation encoded into each and every individual note event.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

another point worth mentioning about the articulationID approach, you can move notes around, copy and paste, etc...and the articulation goes with them without any fuss.  

 

Need to take a passage and do a reduction to less time?  No problem...just do it..the articulations will be exactly where they are supposed to be, no need to copy an automation lane or mess around with everything that goes along with managing that relationship between the notes and the automation events.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dewdman42 there's a tiny issue with this total freedom of moving things around, or multiple notes in a chord having different articulations. The target sampler systems don't necessarily respond instantly and cleanly. In practice the sampler hit with note by note keyswitching would most likely choke. Either some sort of running status and data thinning would need to be done by the script, or the sampler has to do it. 

 

On the automation lane not being a great way to store the info, that's true as soon as things get complex. For the occasional articulation change, it might be adequate. 

 

As you say, ideally a less perishable embedding of articulation into each note should exist, but also a way to display it next to the editors to aid in marking up the notation. Both SkiSwitcher's MIDI Channel or ArtzID's Articulation ID can display as a number note by note in the event list. That's pretty easy to glance at while marking up the score, but it's just a number. What's the way to visualize those as al little more meaningfully? 

 

Doesn't using MIDI Channel #  precludes mult-timbral patches if you want to use them?  

 

How does AG Complete store the articulation info of the track? 

 

The UACC system requires chasing CC #32 events, which most DAWs can do. But I'm not sure how iit would display. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fernandreynaud,

 

Per what you said in your first paragraph, none of it is accurate. I'm not sure where you got your information, but it is entirely inaccurate.

 

- There is zero downside to having notes contain articulation identifying values. In fact, it *is* total freedom.

 

- Every plugin responds *perfectly* to multiple notes playing back multiple articulations in chords. There is no downside here.

 

- There are not one but two articulation name displays in both systems. If you absolutely need to see articulation names in the automation lane, you can do that with SkiSwitcher as I explained on the previous page.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're saying that if every note that's sent to Kontakt in complex chords and arpeggios is proceeded by a keyswitch note, that doesn't ever cause any glitches with any Library/patch? FWIW my recollection is that wasn't so perfect, though i didn't say it was always the case.  I haven't tried it in a while, so if you say so I can believe it.

 

If I'm working in the notation editor pane, can you explain or illustrate where exactly I would look to see the articulation of a note I select? Is this true for both SS and ArtzID? 

 

How does the SS system handle multi-timbral Kontakt patches where several "articulation families" are loaded to respond on different MIDI channels, and a further specific articulation subtype is then picked within the "family" with a keyswitch? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll reply to some of your post now, and the rest when I get back to my studio later this evening. 

 

First, please know that I will never say something about my systems that isn't true. It wouldn't serve me or my customers to misrepresent the operation or features of my systems. So when I say "zero downside" you can take that to the bank.

 

There is never a problem getting any kind of patch to produce the sound of multiple articulations from even hard-quantized chords where every note has a different articulation identifier. This is true when playing sounds from any kind of plugin or patch type, including keyswitching, UACC, Vienna Instruments (X and Y axis), multi-channel MIDI, and any patch type that responds to program change messages or articulation id itself (EXS-24).

 

In fact, it's this very feature that allows my systems to let you play an articulation live that's completely different from what's playing back from a track. So, both the "sticky articulation" feature and "polyphonic articulation switching" are part of the same process. In fact, I can't entirely take credit for the process. The process is inherent in MIDI itself!

 

Remember, MIDI information is transmitted serially, not in parallel. So for the moment, let's take SkiSwitcher or ARTzID completely out of the picture. And let's say you play a 10 note piano chord and hard quantize it. Those notes are not transmitted to your piano plugin/patch in parallel. They're transmitted serially, one note after the other. So that 10 note piano chord might sound hard quantized, but it's actually playing a very fast arpeggio of all 10 notes. This is and has been true of the way MIDI works since its invention. And it's no different when MIDI is transmitted to plugins in a DAW.

 

Now let's put one of my systems into the picture. If you're not doing a lot of articulation changes in a passage, the system is smart enough to know not to "spam" the patch with system-generated keyswitch notes, CC messages, or whatever it takes to switch those notes to a particular articulation every time a note plays. This is the Data Reduction feature.

 

When you use polyphonic articulation switching to play multiple quantized notes playing multiple articulations, the amount of information that occurs "simultaneously" is intentionally minimized. And the total amount of delay there might be between any two notes, including the necessary keyswitch (or other) information is never going to be more than 2 milliseconds -- and that's a conservative number.

 

So no, there are no "MIDI log jams" or anything like that which occur when using this feature.

 

As I said, I'll reply to the rest of your post separately (I'm at a friend's house now using a PC and I have no clue as to how to take screenshots to show you the articulation name displays).

Edited by ski
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Screenshots in Win? Hit PrtScr key to put desktop into clipboard or Alt-PrtScr to just capture current window. 

Then paste wherever, or into simple Paint prog.

=====

OK, if we're talking data reduction, then we're on the same page.

 

So we record using keyswitches from e.g. pads or keyboard and that's what's saved as the MIDI data,

 

Is there a way to save the track instead/also as channelized by SS or ArtID'd by ArtzID?

 

 

Is there a preferred way to trigger articulation changes instead? CC# 32? 

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the PC tips, fernandraynaud!

 

So, yes, Data Reduction!  :mrgreen:  See screenshot below.

 

So we record using keyswitches from e.g. pads or keyboard and that's what's saved as the MIDI data?

Nope, never. Read on for the rest of the explanation...

 

Is there a preferred way to trigger articulation changes instead? CC# 32? 

To select articulations you have several choices... You can use a range of notes on your main controller (what you'd normally think of as keyswitch keys, but aren't), notes on a 2nd controller like a mini keyboard, CC#32 messages, or program change messages. The only thing the MIDI messages from these devices do is to select the articulation identifier value which will then be embedded into every note you play and record from that point forward. The events themselves are never recorded. For SkiSwitcher, the articulation identifier is the MIDI channel. For ARTzID it's the articulation ID value. 

 

So the only thing that gets recorded in your track are notes (with their embedded articulation identifier values). Then, a Script on each instrument channel looks at the notes' id information and (when necessary) generates -- and outputs to the patch -- the specific type of articulation-switching messages it normally expects to see. This explains why you don't ever need to record non-note information to get articulations to switch. That information is in the notes! These things are demonstrated on my website so I won't elaborate on them any more here (see link in my signature).

 

As for viewing articulation names... Below you'll see that the Scripter has two articulation name displays (these are reflected in the Smart Controls as well). These menus update instantly whenever a change of articulation is detected. And clicking on these menus shows you the full list of articulation names. 

 

namez.png.1f2053192626f0d172e7c55f72f2a9a3.png

Standby shows you the articulation you've chosen to play live -- which is completely independent from the articulations playing back from the track (monitored in the Live + Track menu). 

 

ssarr.thumb.png.44464d7eab255271f79c68b6afbd8478.png

Finally... if you really want to see articulation names in the automation lane, you can do this with SkiSwitcher, though not with ARTzID. 

stepz.png.e1b0da184ed36ee78a23ad31e9b75201.png

Edited by ski
Link to comment
Share on other sites

fernandraynaud, Peter has now given you a complete picture of his systems and how they work. Now let me tell you my experience with it.

 

He will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that I am one of the first, if not THE first, friends Peter ever shared the SkiSwitcher with, long before he put it up for sale, at my urging btw. So I have been using it for a very, very, very long time. It has never, and I mean never, caused any set of chords or complex passages (and I use  some very demanding Play, UVI, Best Service, and Kontakt libraries) to glitch. When I click on a note in the score editor, piano roll, or event list it has never failed that I hear the correct articulation with either keyswitch patches or multi-timbral instances.

 

It just works, period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...