Jump to content

Single core overload problem


Markdu

Recommended Posts

Just to come up to date with this. Over the last couple of days I have been testing the project and so far I have almost eliminated the single core spiking thanks to all the wonderful help I have received here. In particular the RAM issue does seem to have been the main problem. I have managed to reduce the memory usage in the project down to about 11.5 GB making the total RAM used about 13.8. That's with all startup items disabled and only necessary apps running like Acrobat reader to see the score etc. I'm watching Activity Monitor like a hawk and so far, no swap is happening. I changed my Soniccouture piano for a simpler one and that knocked almost a GB off the RAM usage in the project, which seems to have done the trick. Now I hope I'm not speaking too soon and this doesn't revert but so far so good.. I do have a more fully stripped-down version saved in case I still haven't left enough RAM overhead. I am still getting the occasional spike but that is so far only happening when I start to play an instrument in live mode. After the initial note or two it settles down and is very rare anyway. As predicted, avoiding any swap happening seems to be the key, though there's plenty of memory compression but as I understand it that's just how the OS handles memory and not necessarily deleterious performance-wise.

 

I am certainly much more aware now of the direct impact memory usage has on apparent CPU efficiency. I would never have spotted this on my own so many thanks in particular to mc_deli and fernandraynaud for alerting me to this and to the latter for explaining things so clearly. All very interesting about Reaper and the possibilities of using a PC etc. Meanwhile I have my MacBook up and running again. Not sure quite what to do with my little slave (that doesn't sound quite right does it?!) now that the main machine seems to be behaving but it works perfectly as you described so at the very least I have a backup system that can take up the slack if things go south again. And as you say there is a lot more I can do with it creatively. I was going to max the little one's RAM to 4 GB(!) but decided against that as it seems it can only actually use 3 (ahh..) so I don't think it's worth it. It's now running Lion because the latest Play requires it. In terms of possible upgrades I might well consider that Mac Pro which from looking around isn't too badly priced and then upgrading it as you suggest; however for the time being I'm going to keep working with my Mini now that I have hopefully found a way to tame the spikes. I may well come back with some questions if I do decide on the Pro. Also I think I can rule out project corruption at this stage which is good news!

 

Thanks again guys. Very much appreciated!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Composerguy hi

 

Computers can play some wild tricks!

Keep it simple I say, I used to have 2 or 3 screens, and DAW contollers etc, no end of little problems, spent more time trying to fix them than recording/writing!

 

Now I have 1 screen, no controllers, no problems!

 

anyways, just saying, the less things you have to go wrong, the more you can enjoy Logic! Thats just my experience anyway!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah yes I sympathies and know too well the kind of problems you guys are describing. Sometimes there seems like such a fine line between functional and glitchy that it feels completely arbitrary. So to find something that so far seems to be a reliable enough means of controlling that line feels far less like it's all a matter of chance as to whether or not my machine will let me down during any particular session. Yes, keeping it simple and in my case keeping some overhead in that RAM. I do use Spaces in Mission Control because I find having four screens in one a really great facility but I am wondering if that might use up some resources as well, given what you're saying. Plus a fairly complex template with several screen sets etc.. Must do some more research on system optimisation (for audio/midi).

 

Thanks mc_deli. Yes, a 'community victory' is a good way to describe it. Fingers crossed it lasts! And I agree about the hardware. If you know what you're doing, and my knowledge has certainly been enhanced here, I believe it is possible to wring a lot more out of an ageing system than we might think. Within reason of course but I have always liked to get full use out of what I already have rather than being too quick to jump on the upgrade wagon. Thus the appeal of the MacBook-as-slave idea!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the other hand..

 

Thinking out loud here. Just looking into the prices to upgrade that Mac Pro 4.1 I linked to earlier. I can't find processors or RAM for anything close to the prices fernandraynaud estimated and I've searched quite a bit. I'm based in Ireland so it's a little different maybe, in terms of shipping and so on. Also I can only find 3.46 GHz CPU's but they're probably pretty much the same. I did find a dual processor kit, not from Ebay though, which seems to be already 'de-lidded' (i.e. with the IHS removed - I presume that's the same thing?) for $491 and a 1333 MHz RAM upgrade to 64 GB for the same price. Add a 525 GB SSD from Crucial at $185 to the computer price of $700 and the total would be just under $1900 (€1640). It is tempting for what would still be a pretty powerful machine. Dunno though. I'll have to think about it as it's still a lot of money and as I say I can work on with what I have, with a few workarounds..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you do go in that direction, I think you can order from the US. You'd want two 3.46 Ghz 6 core SLBVX X5690s.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5411.m570.l1313.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.XX5690.TRS1&_nkw=X5690&_sacat=0

 

Installing the lidded Xeons in a 4,1 is fine if you're handy with PC hardware. You have to use a long hex key, and count turns so you know approximately where you should be. Do some practice dry runs. Mark the number of turns on each position on the heat sink. Then go slow, keep track of the turns, and most importantly turn with your fingertips only, and FEEL how much torque you're applying. It's much easier than I thought. You also need some thicker heat-conducting pad on the side because the height is now different. There are tutorials on Youtube etc. And pre-emptively replace the fasteners on the MCU chip, redo the heatsink grease, because the clips break off after a few years and the MCU overheats. If this is too much trouble, get a slow dual Xeon 5,1 to upgrade. Spend more, save some time.

 

I'll try to find you the right RAM, if you want. As soon as you say "mac" the prices jump. It's like pulling into the repair shop with a Mercedes. You want HP server memory, it has to be a specific type. But NEVER search for "Apple" or "macPro" parts unless you enjoy paying at least double .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes that makes sense about Mac parts. Thanks for offering to find me the right RAM. I'll come back to you on that if I do decide to pursue this route.

 

I am fairly handy with computers having custom-built a PC many years ago to run Logic according to Emagic's recommendations! However the procedure you describe sounds a bit involved and risky, though no doubt I'd get the hang of it.

 

The already de-lidded kit I mentioned is actually item no. 4 on the list you linked to. Expensive maybe but less hassle by the look of it. Add shipping etc. though and the price goes right up.

 

I'll consider the slower 5.1 option as well, possibly a good compromise. To be honest I'm not sure at this point if I want to upgrade at all for the reasons we've already discussed. I'm keeping an open mind though and I notice I am scanning the ads to see what's out there.. These things can gather momentum all too easily!

 

Thanks for coming back to me on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, of course, if it's working, it's good enough for now.

 

I didn't mean settling on a slower 5,1. I meant buying the slowest cheapest 2010-2012 5,1 you can find. It must of course have the DUAL CPU TRAY. Then effortlessly dropping in a pair of the fastest 6 core Xeons into the lock-mounts, without having to deal with the many tricky parts of upgrading a 4,1.

 

You'll pay more for the 5,1, and in any event it will still take as much work to tear it down and do the cleaning, down to the fan blades and every corner of every part. But you'll save time and anxiety on the CPU installation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I understood that you meant to upgrade the 5.1 CPU's. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. That might well be a good solution, again if I do decide to go ahead.

 

In terms of the Mini working it still is, for the most part. Some spiking but far far less than previously and definitely workable as it settles down quite quickly. What I am finding though is that if I leave a load of samples un-loaded to keep the RAM usage down and then re-load an instrument's samples to record it, if I then un-load them again the RAM usage for Logic either remains the same or even goes up! Which means that as I work through the previously un-loaded instruments I'm building up the usage again despite unloading them when finished recording. Sooner or later this results in some Swap coming into play.

 

So I'm wondering if there is a way to ensure that Logic releases the RAM properly once I unload an instrument's samples. (It did do this when I un-loaded a lot of instruments to get it down initially; it just doesn't seem to do it for one or even a few instruments). Someone on VI-Control suggested Memory Clean 2 but I think that only really works once you quit a RAM-intensive app like Logic. I have found that with Logic running it does appear to free up RAM generally (quite considerably actually) but according to A.M. Logic's usage remains unchanged and it also dramatically increases the Swap amount. It actually went up to about 8 GB at one point! Seems that's how it saves on RAM, not good news for my situation.

 

So, how do I get Logic to release RAM as and when I un-load an instrument's samples?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that issue has been bitched about before, especially in relation to Kontakt, that the system never actually releases sample memory. From a programming standpoint it might make sense to allocate blocks and keep them ready expecting they're going to be needed again soon. And then there are memory leaks, the bane of object-oriented programming. This is all memory-hungry stuff. The fanboys who say they're doing great running Logic on 8GB macBooks are, well, doing great ;-)

 

I doubt there is much you can do about this except try running your samplers out of process. You can run them in VEPro, and when you close that it should release the RAM, then you'd open it up again. I've heard that VEPro is also much better at freeing RAM even without restarting it. I haven't measured it but I'd expect something similar running them in Reaper as a Rewire Slave.

 

When I have the time I'll try to document the Reaper Slave Rewire setup, because it also helps the single core spiking, in some case dramatically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not surprised to hear this issue has warranted some bitching - it's fairly crucial for those of us trying to work within 16 GB or less to be able to maintain control over memory usage while working within a project but presumably it would be built in to the system if it were possible. I understand there is a Terminal command that might be able to help with this which I am going to look into but perhaps that too requires you to quit the programme first. Running Play through VEPro is definitely something I ought to consider as discussed before however building my template around that from scratch again is almost as daunting as setting up a new/upgraded computer!

 

Yes, I'd certainly be interested in hearing more about the Reaper rewire setup when you do get some time. However, at the moment the spiking is not really an issue thanks to managing the RAM better but that is affected by the system not releasing it. I can work around that though, for example by loading things up more towards the end of a session. Closing and re-opening a project is not really an option due to how long it takes to re-load the samples from my (2nd internal) HD. Otherwise I could do that within Logic. However I must look into whether that would be any faster with VEPro.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still weighing up my options here. My current thinking is that although I can make my current system do what I need it to with several workarounds, the limitations in CPU power, maximum RAM, HD as opposed to SSD etc. are beginning to stand out as unnecessary and burdensome. In terms of alternatives I have been looking into the various possibilities including upgrading that 4, 1 but at the moment I am considering a PC slave, using the Mini as a master with either Reaper or VEPro. I've been researching this for a few hours now and am feeling a bit overwhelmed with little clarity on where to start.

 

If I go this route I would be happy to either build one myself from scratch or to pick up a good 2nd hand deal. What sort of specs should I be looking for? Are there particular components/brands (e.g. m'board) that are preferable, or would pretty much any fast i7 configuration likely be good enough? And am I right in thinking that the Mini would be adequate as the master? Finally, any links that would be helpful in terms of specific guidelines? Thanks.

 

Just to add to this, one thing that would hold me back about the Mac Pro 4, 1 or even 5, 1 option is investing a lot of money in a machine that is already old, older than my own. The ones I'm seeing around, in this part of the world anyway, seem very expensive for their age. Anything ordered in from the States gets a lot of extra duty piled onto the price so getting a 'cheap' base machine and then upgrading it seems quite elusive. For example the already de-lidded CPU upgrade kit would cost me in the region of €550. Of course there are some great all-singing-all-dancing refurbished machines available from the UK on eBay but again at pretty steep prices. I'm sure they would represent a solid investment but for how long until the OS and latest Logic version are no longer supported? Of course the same is true of the Mini but at least if I can buy something either more up to date, or technically capable but less expensive by way of a PC slave, that would feel like less of a shell-out for old tech. Perhaps my thinking is flawed here but that's the rationale behind my present leaning toward a PC slave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
When I have the time I'll try to document the Reaper Slave Rewire setup, because it also helps the single core spiking, in some case dramatically.

I need to return to this thread to ask a question. I have since acquired a PC which I am setting up to use as a slave. I have installed Reaper and want to run it as a Rewire slave to Logic as fernandraynaud suggested. I can do this ok if both Logic and Reaper are on the same machine but so far I have been unable to do it over LAN. I have set up a midi network using rtpMIDI which works fine for playing instruments loaded into Reaper on the PC via Logic on the Mac. However if I try to open Reaper in Rewire slave mode it does not recognise that Logic is already open across the network. So can anyone tell me if it's possible to do this over LAN and if so, how? I posted about this on the Reaper forum and someone told me that it is not currently possible to run Reaper in Rewire slave mode over LAN, yet I understood from what fernandraynaud said that it was. Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congratulations @markdu! Sorry I think I confused you by talking about too many things at once.

 

To review. I see surprising benefits from running Reaper as VI host over Rewire locally. It's especially pronounced on my 12 core, where a heavy Kontakt patch like Kirk Hunter Strings Spotlight Strings with 4 concurrent cellos can easily saturate the active core. Running the same in Reaper as Logic's Rewire Slave it barely registers on the dread single core's bar ~25%. On my 4 core (8 thread) i7-4790 it also saturates in Logic, but the Rewire session's load is more like 50%. Not sure yet why, I take these issues one at a time, and return to them when in need. In any event this approach is worth digging into, because anything that even partly relieves Logic's single core (more accurately single thread) saturation is a blessing .

 

Now, over the LAN. I do what you did, using rtpMIDI. It's simple, it works. The lag is surprisingly small, looks like 1-2 mS. I can record a MIDI track in Logic, while triggering the VI on the slave, at near zero load.

 

So what about getting the audio back? I don't know if Rewire can return Audio over the LAN, I doubt it. I've looked at some things like Jack and DANTE. DANTE involves an inescapable (and unacceptable) 10mS lag. Jack trashed my system.

 

But then I realized that what I really needed was just MONITORING capability while tracking, that's what the single core saturation prevents. So, if we bring the audio back to the Logic audio interface from the slave over wire (copper or fiber), Digitally or Analog, it doesn't matter, we can monitor with no instability, no additional drivers, and no added lag. Then what I usually do, once the track (MIDI) is recorded in Logic, is just move the the Logic track back onto the local VI, where it plays back fine, and move to the next problem. Because this one is solved.

 

I did bounce back into Logic on a few rare occasions when I didn't have the exact desirable VI and effects chain on Logic/OsX that I had in Reaper/Windows, and that was as complicated and high-tech as patching into an audio track the very signal that I had previously been just monitoring. A little more work than dragging a region to an adjacent track.

 

If you find a more "computerese" way to bring the audio back from the slave, I would imagine there are many options, I'd kind of expect it to entail more lag and jitter than a patch cord, but who knows, I'm certainly open to trying it.

 

The advantage of VEPro, as I understand it, is that it sends the audio back, I don't know with how much delay. And VEPro is intended as a more permanent hosting, as in: you stick the VIs in VEPro and you leave them there. But I'd rather avoid that, and since the single core issue only affects one track at a time, we can postpone that until we totally saturate ALL the cores on the Logic side.

 

Also East West indicated in a FAQ that if you're doing something like hosting for real on a slave you need a license for each library on both computers (!). Let's see, Hollywood Orche$tra x 2 ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for getting back to me fernandraynaud. No, I think the confusion was mine as you didn't actually state anywhere that Rewiring Reaper works over LAN - I just misunderstood that part. You meant locally.

 

I really like Reaper so far though I haven't dug very deeply into it, just far enough to understand its basic workings and how to host VI's etc. I can certainly see the appeal, far more stripped-down and efficient than Logic. However I've used the latter for so many years, since it was Notator in fact, that it remains my 'home DAW' despite its flaws.

 

Yes, from my humble research it seems that getting the audio back into Logic might be the issue that gets in the way of midi over LAN being the ideal setup for me. Interesting what you say about Dante, I had that ear-marked as a possibility, yet to be researched. Failing a software solution, I have an excellent Metric Halo interface on the Mac which has a digital input but I imagine I'd need another interface with a d. output for the PC so as to get the pure signal back into the Mac.. sounds complicated, and expensive. The computer's sound card would be adequate for monitoring but not for bringing the audio back in.

 

I do want to host my sample libraries on the PC but process everything back in Logic. Another reason for getting the PC is that it has twice the RAM of my Mini which means that I can't take the step of moving the midi back to the local VI track because I'll simply run out of memory again. I need to leave the playback VI's on the slave and have the pure audio available back in Logic.

 

So it does seem as if the only/best solution might be VEPro though I would love to be able to make the Reaper slave method work for me. A lot less expensive and as I say I really like what I see in R. And in terms of expense, you're right! Not only two iLoks but also afaik two Steinberg keys, one for each computer. Plus the cost of the programme..

 

I'm going to look some more into the possible ways of bringing the audio from Reaper-PC back into Logic-Mac, though I might well end up going the VEPro route if that doesn't work out.

 

Many thanks again for your excellent and clear input and if you've any more ideas, or if I've misunderstood anything, I'd welcome hearing!

 

Edit: On further investigation it looks like I can run VEPro in a master/slave setup with only one Steinberg key, which I already own. Also I can use my existing iLok on the PC where my EW libraries are hosted and simply move the licences for any libraries I want to leave on the Mac to the computer itself, so again only one iLok needed. This also means that only one licence is needed, as long as you only need to use a given library on one computer at a time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, another Hamburg Notator veteran. Plowing through contemporary minefields ;-)

 

Since your mac's I/F has SPDIF inputs, see if you have SPDIF outs on the PC. Audio-MIDI setup has an option to create composite audio "devices". There's a way to rig this very inexpensively.

 

Incidentally I found that whenever there are behind the scenes conversions, say in sample rate or word size (and they can occur in not so obvious points), Logic takes a terrible hit in single core overloads.

 

You point out that the native audio circuit on the PC is not adequate for recording back into Logic. I saw the same issue, but I had passable audio in the studio i7, including a Tascam FW1884 that also serves as the main control surface in Logic, over NetMIDI. It took me a while to reach my present state of degradation, in which I eat burgers and shop at Walmart. For some things, anyway. May I direct your attention to some blind testing that asked sophisticated listeners, using quite good Sennheiser HD800 headphones, to distinguish the $2 D/A chips on motherboards from several converters up to $2000 in price.

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/high-end-pc-audio,review-32894.html

 

Need I say that they could not reliably distinguish them? How is that possible? People rushed to justify their boutique converters. But the Realtek et al. converters these days are 24 bit and capable of high sample rates. Today's audio opAmps and other components are very good. A well-designed multilayer board can provide adequate shielding. Many motherboards have SPDIF outputs, and some even have opticals.

 

Honestly? Marketing runs on the deepest placebo effect. There are very skilled people whose job it is to make it hard to distinguish expenditures that add real value from ones that do not. And failing that, there are even ways to make circuits, including cables, add flattering overtones. Screw the opinion of the herd and just evaluate the motherboard audio outputs impartially on the very system you have, before buying mo' fancier stuff, emotionally very difficult as it may be to see a plastic 1/8" jack in the same league as an array of gold-plated Neutriks. And your mixdown will likely be all digital anyway.

 

Sounds like there's a VEPro in your future, and probably rightly so. Personally I'm happier seeing dongles shoved up other ports than mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh boy, I love that last sentence! :lol: And I've no doubt you're right in what you say. Yes that article is a real eye-opener. However my almost-Walmart PC, a HP workstation that I've 'upgraded', does not have SPDIF anything, just the usual bog-standard analogue headphone output. Now that may sound good enough, to my less-than optimally sensitive ears anyway, but I don't quite have the courage to trust it to really be of good enough quality for the final mixdown. No, I'd have to find a software solution that keeps it all 'in the box' or else invest in a USB interface with digital outs for the PC. Call me conservative but I have to draw the line somewhere, even if I am a sucker for the audio hype.

 

I'm going to try a couple of options before I sell out to VEPro, ReaStream being one of them. I imagine you've tried that or no doubt you would have suggested it. However, I did get a very friendly email from a guy in Vienna today with my 30-day trial licence so if I don't find a software/affordable solution via midi-over-LAN soon, I will no doubt embrace the herd!

 

Edit: Ah, it seems that ReaStream is Windows-only, being part of the ReaPlugs VST package. I can load it up in Reaper-PC ok and tell it to send the audio to the IP of my Mac but I can't install it on the Mac/Logic in order to receive said audio. Pity. I'm taking your word for it that Dante won't work without noticeable and unacceptable latency, otherwise it does seem like it might be a potential candidate, though perhaps a bit complicated to set up. However, on the DVS page of their website they state that the latency can be set to 4, 6 or 10 ms. Not sure what that means though..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a problem that boils down to DVS, or is it Dante, not running as a standalone. I can't remember all the details, I talked to them and bottom line there are limitations in sample rate and the resulting latency is hard set to 10ms. Look into it deeper.

 

You might find some analyzer software to check the noise floor and distortion on the HP's output.

 

Or you can get a basic 24 bit/192k capable interface over USB. These UMC204HD are surprisingly good for $80.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UMC204HD-BEHRINGER-U-PHORIA/dp/B00QHURLCW/ref=sr_1_7?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1512739318&sr=1-7&keywords=behringer+audio+interface

 

I've used one and it's totally uneventfully plug and play on mac. As I recall it's unbalanced but you can wire it into balanced inputs. The ASIO Windows drivers are bizarre, I mean the latency settings have a strange UI, but you don't care, once you set it up it just works.

 

Next step up there are all sorts of simple interfaces at $100-$250. I've used the Focusrites etc, and they're all very similar. I don't think you need fancy DSP loopback etc. This one has a lot of I/O, supports several digital formats, sounds fine, and has been dragged from system to system for 2 years, working trouble-free on both Windows and OsX machines, connecting over Firewire or USB. I've taken it apart to look and it's a well-made device, industry standard chips and all. If you test it and it runs OK on your HP, it will likely continue to do so.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FCA1616-BEHRINGER-FIREPOWER/dp/B00E87OK1G/ref=sr_1_16?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1512739609&sr=1-16&keywords=behringer+audio+interface

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DVS is Dante Virtual Soundcard which would be installed on both computers (2 separate licences) but I would also need Dante Via to run on a 3rd machine for clocking. I have my MacBook of course which could do the latter task but it all sounds rather complicated and probably not worth the effort given what you say.

 

A USB interface similar to the ones you linked to might well be a runner though. After all I already have the SPDIF input on my lovely ULN-2 which has a high-quality cable attached with nothing on the other end. It was supposed to receive input from my Boss guitar effects unit but that setup never worked for some reason. So maybe it's begging me to connect something else to it? Cue a basic USB interface for the PC. Hmm.. will definitely look into what's available here. No point in spending too much on one though cos in that case I may as well fork out the €285 for VEPro instead and be done with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was hoping DANTE would work, but it's more of an industrial solution, used with multiple DANTE endowed interfaces, big consoles for client placebo pricing. For the project studio it seems a bottomless pit of licensed technology to replace a couple of cables.

 

Why not just go trial and error to gradually find a solution ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that is the impression I get re. Dante. It seems there are some people around who have got it to work in their studio however.

 

I am indeed going trial and error. Am about to test out my Boss guitar effects unit which I realise has a built-in usb audio interface as well as a digital output. Depending on the configuration I might well get it to do what a purpose-built interface can. Remember what you said about the 'polygamist farm'?! Will check back in when I've tried it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that Boss GS-10 works fine as an audio interface for the PC. Brilliant! So now I've got digital output via usb of the PC's audio, that's 44.1 khz / 24 bit, feeding into my ULN-2 via coaxial SPDIF and then into the Mac via firewire. A few steps but hopefully little or no degradation of the signal. Plus no latency that I can hear. All good so far.

 

The next step is to figure out things like how to set up multiple tracks in Reaper and have them each fed by separate tracks in Logic, also managing SkiSwitcher for articulation changing by midi channel over LAN etc. etc. All part of the fun. However the basic setup seems to be in place using Reaper slaved to Logic over LAN so I see no particular reason to invest in VEPro at this point. Unless there are problems with large track counts or getting everything else to work as I need it to. Only time and usage will tell but for the moment I am delighted to have figured out a very promising solution, with your invaluable help and encouragement fernandraynaud so many thanks again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I've managed to set things up so that I can use SkiSwicher to change articulations within a Reaper VI by using the External Instrument plugin in Logic. It allows me to use midi plugins such as the Scripter with the instrument and this works fine over LAN. However I am stuck on what seems like a simple thing and I've gone through the manuals as well as searching online with no luck so far. How do I control just one track in Reaper from one instance of the external instrument in Logic? At the moment all the tracks I create in Reaper are triggered when I play a note on one external instrument track in Logic. I presume this is because the one LAN port is being input to all tracks. So how do I make one Logic track talk to just one Reaper track? I need to have multiple instances of external instruments set up in Logic which then drive their counterparts, but only their counterparts, in Reaper. Then I can choose e.g. the flute track in Logic and have it play just the loaded flute VI on one Reaper track. I've tried doing it by midi channel but this only chooses an actual patch, or single articulation, within the VI multi loaded on the Reaper track. Also, I will need far more than 16 tracks! Do I need to create multiple LAN ports or something like that?

 

I hope the question is clear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're moving fast, like a leopard on laxatives! OK, let me see.

 

If we're talking rtpMIDI, I'm not sure why different MIDI channels wouldn't just trigger the Reaper VI that's set to listen on that channel. Reaper lets you select as input a port and channel, as I recall, and it has a "force to one MIDI channel" selection too, so you might check that carefully.

 

But if it's a SkiSwitcher side effect - he does use the MIDI channel (where Ivan the Terrible uses Program Change) as the lingua franca of articulation, doesn't he? - then maybe use separate ports. You could set up a dozen ports or more in rtpMIDI, say on 5100, 5102, 5104 etc, and a dozen matching ones on the mac side, and if you can ever get them all to initialize without beachballing for too long, you can just dedicate one whole port per VI by picking the right port in the Reaper input selector.

 

In my case I use network MIDI from the PC to bring over a Tascam FW1884 control surface (since there's no 64 bit driver for it on the mac side) and I also use the PC as a bridge to the internet, and it gets ... messy. If you're point to point it should be fine.

 

But Peter is supposed to have solved the MIDI Channel articulation mapping with e.g. a multiple MIDI channel Kontakt Multi problem (while Ivan the Terrible says "ees problem"), so if you're not overlooking the MIDI channel forcing in Reaper Input, you should ask Peter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A leopard on laxatives indeed! :| Well I do need to get all this sorted and get back to the recording project I put on hold in order to upgrade my system and given that I work as well, there isn't a whole lot of time.. Apologies if my enthusiasm to sort it out is coming across as a bit intense. :wink:

 

I'll look more closely at the input setup per track in Reaper some more - I could well be overlooking something there. I don't think it's anything to so with SkiSwitcher as this seems to be happening independently. I tried setting up another port in Audio Midi Setup but it just crashed it. I can try again but if that is the solution and each track requires its own port, that will amount to a lot of ports to incorporate my whole orchestral template! Well if that's what it takes and it works ok then so be it.

 

I'm reluctant to ask Peter, incredibly helpful guy that he is, unless this is directly connected to SS. Ivan's system always looked a bit complicated to me.

 

Will fiddle around some more and try to get more of an understanding of the track setup in Reaper. I suspect that is where I am going wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first thing that I would do in this situation is: (so to speak ...)

 

  • "How much RAM can this machine hold?"
  • Go buy it.

 

While you would like to have "multiple cores," the most important factor is to somehow assure a plentiful supply of RAM. Even if you can do nothing else to the main circuit board of the computer, a very-significant increase in RAM will make a lot of problems go bye-bye.

 

Logic is a "real-time" application. The data that it requires, at each and every instant in time, must be in RAM at-or-before that instant. If you see "System Overload," it is almost certainly caused by this factor, not the CPU(s) running out of juice. ("All of your Lamborghinis are ... stuck in traffic.")

 

RAM-size options always come in several increments due to the (fixed) number of RAM-card slots that are available and the permissible combination of per-card memory sizes that are supported by the hardware. No, you won't be able to "re-use" the RAM devices that you already have, but you might be able to negotiate a trade-up. Occasionally I've had to choose between "more CPU / goodies" and "more RAM," and I consistently chose: "RAM." (Give me RAM and I know that I'm likely to get the very best mileage out of the goodies that I could afford. "Stuck in traffic," they're useless no matter what they are.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@markdu, see, there are simple answers after all.

 

BTW, i checked Reaper input selector, and yes you pick the MIDI port, the channel, and then you can Map the stream to any channel 1-16, and I think it defaults to Channel 1, so that's most likely the problem.

 

Wow, there are some gorgeous Reaper themes, like one called "I Logic NeXt 1.1" that's basically a Logic derivative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your input MikeRobinson. My Mini is maxed out (or is my Maxi mini'd out?) on RAM at 16 gb but I have since acquired a slave PC which has 32 gb. So I have a total of 48 available between the two machines. I intend to run my orchestral samples from the slave and other libraries from the Mini so I should have plenty for my needs. And yes, 32 is the max my PC can take.

 

@fernandraynaud, I thought of getting one of those 'Logic' Reaper themes the other day but the guy was asking for donations and I have no idea how much to donate and am too shy to ask :oops: so I haven't done it yet! Some of them do look great though I agree. Will get back to that once I have the basic setup established.

 

Yes I managed to work out that routing myself last night. What was confusing me was that no reference is made in Reaper to 'ports' so I was just seeing channels. Then I realised that one of the names in the Midi options was the same as the port (duh!) so that's when the penny dropped. Now I have allocated a couple of instrument tracks to two different ports and they all respond separately as I want. The only thing is now I figure that I'll need 30-40 ports to cover all the orchestral instruments cos I'm using most of the 16 channels 'internally' for each instrument's different articulations, changeable via SS within Logic. If this really is the only way to do it it might prove too cumbersome having to connect up all those ports every time I want to work, unless they do so automatically upon boot once established, as Tobias claims.

 

I'm going to look more into the Mapping option you describe as that may offer an alternative to using a zillion ports. The other slight pain is that although most of my CC info is transferring from Logic over LAN, volume CC#7 isn't for some reason. Neither is track muting or soloing etc. - all that has to be done in Reaper, which is not my preference cos I really want to work with the tracks within Logic and simply host the samples within Reaper and not be having to move between the two DAW's depending on the task. That wouldn't be a great workflow! Anyway, maybe these things are more about my own ignorance than the limitations of the system so I will need to explore some more.

 

I wish there were some resources out there on using this particular setup, i.e Logic master to Reaper slave over LAN, cos then I could take all my itsy bitsy questions elsewhere and not be bugging you all the time (and whoever else might be following this thread)!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...