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Single core overload problem


Markdu

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I know that this has been discussed ad infinitum and I've read through everything I can find on this and other forums but I'm at my wits end with this problem. A bit of background: I am running a large orchestral template using EW Hollywood Orchestra Gold. To add to my specs below, my samples are stored on the Mini's 2nd internal 7200 RPM HD, project + audio etc. saved to external G-Tech G-Drive over FW 800. I have each instrument and all its articulations hosted in the one instance of Play so only one articulation is playing at any given time but all instruments do have their own instance. I have all regions on all tracks bounced in place (because Freeze tracks no longer works once midi plugins are used and I use SkiSwitcher's CC Cloner) so I can play the piece back on my machine without system overloads. I have each group of instruments (flutes, oboes etc) in its own summing stack. Each section is routed to a separate Aux (all winds to a 'winds' aux, all brass to a 'brass' aux etc). With this project my system is using about 14 of my 16 GB of RAM.

 

The problem is a very familiar one, i.e. whenever I have a track with an instance of Play selected in order to record that instrument, once I play it I am getting awful single core spikes and associated audio glitches which are making it almost impossible to work. This is now happening most but not all of the time. My device settings are: I/O buffer - 512, Processing threads - Automatic, Process buffer - medium,  Multithreading - Playback and Live Tracks, Summing - High Precision and ReWire off. I have tried all the different settings for these as well as moving the Sample Cache level in Play up to 4, using the built in audio rather than my interface, turning Input Monitoring off, quitting md worker etc. all to no avail. I have all software instrument tracks, plugins, midi fx etc. turned off except for the track I'm working on in order to try and free up CPU resources. No matter what I do, Logic insists on using only one of my eight cores (four are virtual) whenever I have a track with Play on it selected in live mode, which I have to in order to record. The project plays back fine once I have an audio track selected but glitches out again if I select the software instrument during playback. Again, a very familiar scenario I know.

 

Before anyone says that my computer is under-powered or I don't have enough RAM or I should be using an SSD to host my samples etc., please note that I had none of these problems when running Logic 10.2.x under Yosemite, it's only happened since I upgraded to Sierra and 10.3.2. So it must be something to do with the interaction between Play and Logic in these latest versions. Now I need to find some way to get Logic to share the load across the cores. I know, using only one core while processing a 3rd party VST is part of the way Logic is set up but like for a lot of other people, this is sending that single core through the roof and making recording these instruments an almost impossible task.

 

So can anyone advise me what best to do. Is using VEP a likely solution? I read on Gearslutz about someone having some success using Reaper under ReWire as an alternative. Any good? I have also wondered if perhaps my project has become corrupted, especially as I have been repeatedly bouncing regions in place every time I record them and then replacing them when I record a subsequent section and so on.. perhaps this has messed things up? However it's the only way I can work until Freeze is sorted out and I always delete the old takes so as not to build up a load of unused BIP files..

 

Anyway, any help or suggestions gratefully received. 

 

    

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For starters, running from an internal 7200 is a BIG bottleneck. I'm surprised you could run bigger track counts previously like this. Samples should typically be on a dedicated drive(s), not on the OS drive. And yes, a SSD is an absolute asset especially with Hollywood Strings....and FW won't be fast enough for an external SSD unfortunately. If you have USB3, go that route.

VEPro? Absolutely. If you host your VI's in VEPro, it will distribute to your cores more efficiently. Try the demo and see for yourself. The only downside is that you need an e-license dongle.

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Thanks for your reply. The Mini is a server model so it has two internal hard drives, one of which I use for the OS and Logic etc. and the other is solely for storing my sample libraries. I would never try to stream samples from the same drive as the OS. I don't have USB 3 so I'd have to get a thunderbolt SSD however I've never had problems with streaming samples from my 2nd internal before, been doing it for years. The only problem is load times but I don't mind that. Obviously an SSD would be better but this is not a streaming issue - too many other people experiencing the same thing even on very recent high end machines. It's to do with how Logic's audio engine handles software instrument tracks in live mode by processing them on one core only, usually the last one on the right. If I could get Logic to spread the load properly across the available cores then I am sure I would not be experiencing this issue. So your suggestion to try VEP fits with that if it does what you say. I have a Steinberg key which I think will work(?) so I'll probably check out the demo. The only problem with going that route is having to purchase a whole new piece of software and also having to re-build my template around it (argh..!) but if it's the only, or the best, way of resolving this issue then I guess that's what it takes. I'm more than a little frustrated at having to do this when version 10.2/Yosemite worked fine. Between this issue and two other major bugs, i.e. the Freeze-midi fx one and another where notes and other midi info just vanish intermittently (both documented elsewhere and experienced by other users), this update to 10.3.2 has been pretty disastrous for me.

 

Before I take the plunge with the demo, is there any way within Logic to spread the CPU load more efficiently, or any other method aside from VEPro? Someone mentioned the possibility of using AU Lab and as I said above someone else had some success with ReWire and Reason. Thanks.

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Do you have all your orchestral tracks bussed to a single reverb?  I've had good results creating separate reverbs for the different sections of the orchestra.  That might distribute the processing across more cores.

 

I also recommend VEPro, even if just for the ability to only load the samples once instead of every session.

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I'm not using any reverb at this recording stage - I always leave that til I'm mixing. I do however have several instances of Spaces loaded but they're all turned off for now. I always do as you suggest anyway in terms of different verbs for different sections. However this is not really a problem to do with effects plugins. It is happening just with Play/Kontakt on the track and no other plugins, apart from CC Cloner from SkiSwitcher to manage the CC's across articulations. And that's not instantiated for the Kontakt instrument, SonicCouture's Hammersmith piano, and I still get the same issue there. 
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Yes I do have one instrument per instance but I have all the articulations for that instrument within the same instance. Is it optimal to have one instance per articulation? That would mean splitting up a performance into separate tracks and would definitely amount to a million instances! The whole point of SkiSwitcher is to be able to load and switch between articulations/midi channels within the one instance so as to keep everything to do with a single instrument on the same track. Also I'm getting the same glitching with instruments with only two articulations loaded and in the case of the piano it's all on its own. Plus this didn't happen at all with the same template setup in earlier versions of Logic..

 

That's good to know about the S. key. I'll try the demo in that case and see how it works out. Thanks.

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From reading around and trying to do orchestral tracks on a 16gb rMBP - with blazing fast internal plus SSDs - I think you are underpowered with a 2011 Mac Mini and no SSDs - especially for Play and HWO. I don't think it's Sierra/LPX10.x either as I have had the single core "bug" with Yosemite, El Capitan and now Sierra with all versions of 10.x.x. The amount of overloadedness hasn't noticeably changed across these versions.

 

I use activity monitor all the time. It never shows more than 14.x GB of ram used. I think that is the max reading. I think you are maxing the ram. 

 

I have more bad news. I have a carefully crafted VEPro single machine template with e.g. BWW, CS2 etc - not that much - but with the ram maxed playback is stuttering and the single core is crazy. I could do better with purging Kontakt but that 16gb limit is still killer with serious orchestral work.

 

More bad news. The scripters do use up more cpu. I use AG, you have SS. They are great but they are adding to the cpu overhead.

 

And multi-timbral instruments also seem like bad news... they seem much worse for core overload :(

 

What I have noticed is that the amount of auxes and how they are configured does make a difference in Logic, in terms of cpu efficiency. The other thing is that plug ins with moving graphical elements also kill - just turning on one stock Logic EQ analyser will spike the 8th core in a heavy project for me.

 

I also had worse single core spikes when I always had a lot of effects on the master out. Now, I try to keep auxes to a minumum - one set of stem auxes and FX buses, only use stock plug ins during tracking, turn off all analysers during tracking, no fx on the master during tracking - and have tracks set to direct master out during tracking/composing so they are not going through auxes... but there are still times in medium-heavy projects when the 8th core will spike.

 

So, you are not alone... and it's nothing that a slave PC, iMac or 2012-17 MP won't fix!

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Hmm. Lots of bad news indeed! Thing is I definitely did not have these spikes with the same setup and 10.2.x/Yosemite. Believe me I'd have noticed! Also I don't see how I'm maxing the ram when I've had more or less the same samples loaded in previous projects which have run ok. Granted I had to freeze tracks and turn off the Play instances in order to play the project back but then I got no spikes while recording. I accept that SkiSwitcher uses CPU but I do have all instances of the CC Cloner scripter turned off except for the track I'm working on at any given time, which may have only one or two articulations loaded. Plus my reading around has revealed that some people have been getting this issue with far more powerful machines with plenty of ram. 

 

However I never knew that Activity Monitor won't show more than 14 GB ram usage. Really? If that's the case I might well be maxing out without knowing it, despite what I said above. There's certainly some 'Swap' activity going on in the memory window, not sure what that means though. It doesn't show any memory pressure or CPU spiking when this problem is happening. I'm not on my Mini right now but I must check this out by unloading articulations until I reduce the ram load and see if the situation improves. Also, I do have quite a few aux channels in my chain as described above. I'm going to experiment with trimming those as well. 

 

I purposely stay with HOW Gold so that my system can handle it, well that's how I've been thinking of it anyway. Don't need all those mic positions in Diamond, though I wouldn't mind the divisi strings! Shouldn't have thought I would need a slave setup for running Gold. Again, I'm cautious about your last sentence because as I say I have come across people who went out and bought what should be a bullet-proof new Mac with loads of power as well as ram in order to eliminate these sorts of issues only to get the same single-core spikes. Or so it seems from my research anyway.

 

Lots to think about here. I'm going to do some more testing and see what I can discover based on what you've said. I'm not averse to upgrading if I have to but I'd need to be pretty sure my machine was the real culprit before doing so.      

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Your problems might be stemming not from some kind of malfunction or configuration problem, but from running the latest version of Logic and macOS on an under-powered Mac with rotational drives. Yosemite probably wasn’t as demanding an operating system as Sierra nor were the earlier versions of Logic. So, operating under the assumption that since you were able to do something before you should be able to do it now is flawed.
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Yosemite probably wasn’t as demanding an operating system as Sierra nor were the earlier versions of Logic. So, operating under the assumption that since you were able to do something before you should be able to do it now is flawed.

I second that 100%

Snow Leopard (10.6.8) was probably one of the most stable and light OSX versions in the last decade.

Every new OSX version since then has been more demanding on CPU and graphics.

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Stacks is the way to go. Even the Logic devs apparently don't encourage mutltimbral instruments clogging up one core. I appreciate what you are saying about generating hundreds of tracks for each articulation, but you can organise them under track stacks, thus splitting the load and keeping the interface logical and manageable. Worth a try on a test project and see if that spreads the load better.
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Yes I already use Stacks. Each section has its own Folder Stack, i.e. Winds, Brass etc. Then each group of instruments has its own Summing Stack within the Folder Stack, i.e. piccolo and flutes in one stack, oboes and E. horn in another etc. The Summing Stacks are then routed to section auxes so that I can process each section separately, i.e. Winds, Brass etc. Finally all those auxes go to an Orchestra aux and then to the stereo out. Phew! 

 

In terms of the latest OS and Logic being too demanding for my poor Mini, possibly but I wouldn't be sure of that. Yosemite was only a couple of versions behind and the system specs for Sierra state that it will run on a 2010 or later Mini. Mine is 2011 with a quad core i7 (granted only 2 GHz but still). Would have thought that should be fine, perhaps not optimal but adequate. Same for Logic's sys. requirements - to the extent to which they are specified at all I certainly well exceed them. Plus I'm not comparing 10.3.2 to a much older version, just the latest 10.2. Having said all that I accept that the more the OS and Logic develop the more demanding they are likely to be but surely people don't update their computers every couple of OS or Logic updates? Also, this model Mini server was very well thought of as an audio machine when it came out because of its decent (for then) processor and its dual internal 500 Gb 7200 drives etc. That's why I bought it. For example: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-production-forum/781123-mac-mini-server-2011-rocks-post.html

 

So please don't be too hard on me!  :wink:

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Ok been doing some testing. Very interesting. It seems that re-configuring the aux channels, i.e. reducing them, makes no difference. Then I experimented with the samples loaded. First of all although Activity Monitor does show a max of around 14 GB in the bottom 'Memory Used' box, it seems to show the correct amount used by any given app above that in the Process list. I tried to load some of the large 'powerful system' string patches from HS and found I could keep going way beyond my 16 GB as more went into Compressed Memory. I went as far as nearly 19 GB loaded then gave up. During all this the bottom reading was still on around 14 GB and stayed there no matter what I threw at it. This was a discovery for me, that I can apparently load far more into ram than my actual physical capacity. Must be the later OS version cos I remember getting warnings before as I approached my max. With the normal project loaded it was around 13.5 GB used. Memory Pressure showing yellow so that does seem to be pushing it even though there's still a couple of GB's to spare. 

 

Then I started to unload the samples from the Play instruments. I unloaded all the wind and brass and then played with my violin patches. The articulation on channel 1 worked fine but I got bad spiking on a couple of the other channels. Memory pressure a mix of yellow and green. Then unloaded all samples except those for violin 1 and hurrah, no spiking! Mem. pressure staying green. 

 

So the issue is perhaps more to do with ram than core distribution, as I think you were implying mc_deli. Maybe some interaction between the two but certainly as I cleared out the ram (or in a new project with only one instrument loaded), the spiking seems to have greatly reduced. Plus Mem. Pressure was showing yellow any time the spiking occurred. Now it would be possible for me to work like this given Play still holds all the patches used so it would be just a matter of re-loading the samples for the instrument I want to record and then un-loading them afterwards. And given I bounce all regions in place anyway for playback I don't need the samples loaded permanently. Yeah, workable but a bit of a pain and adding one more layer of turning things on and off as I go which really clogs up the workflow. So I think this might be a temporary workaround until I sort out a more long-term solution cos on this machine I'm stuck with 16 GB. I confess that I have been 'browsing' a bit today to see what's out there in terms of an upgrade so that might ultimately be the way to go. I am reluctant to give up on the Mini though so I'll see how I get on with the workaround. Many thanks for alerting me to this RAM issue. I wouldn't have known that that was so bound up with single-core spiking otherwise. I also still suspect there may be some corruption in the project so I might try importing everything to a fresh one and seeing if that makes any difference. 

 

On a slightly different note, I did a Time Machine backup before updating to Sierra/10.3.2 so I could always revert to the older setup I suppose. Seems a pity though..

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FWIW, whenever you are using swap, you are out of RAM. You should reboot and kill all extra apps and doodads before opening Logic. Try then. You should never be showing ANY swap usage in the Activity Monitor. It's virtual memory space on your disks that holds memory contents being "swapped" in and out  because you've run out of real RAM. And disks, rotary or SSD, are much slower than RAM. Thing is, once you get any swap usage at all, it stays until you restart. Boot clean and keep that RAM usage down enough never to register any swap use.

 

It seems sometimes a project starts REALLY overloading, but another day it's much better. Especially after a reboot?

 

Once you get things to run within the available RAM, and you still have overloads on the input track I'd say the solution for you is either to 

 

1) spend Money to get an i7-based machine with the fastest possible single core benchmarks (i.e. clock speed) and plenty of RAM, e.g 64 GB. 

 

2) connect one of your older machines (that you already paid for) as a slave over a gigabit Ethernet cable. If you are good with 'puters, this is a $5 solution with many variants. The $5? The cable. If not, get a package like VEPro so it handles the details for you and run it over the network onto the slave. 

 

Solution 2)  will cost you a lot less than buying a new iMac. Besides that iMac will soon be old news, it has graphics power we don't need, it won't completely eliminate the overloads, and it will only have 4 cores and thus its own limitations, like on large track count projects, where the playback (in turn) will saturate. 

 

We need the fastest clock speed to tame the single core overloads, and the greatest number of cores to handle more tracks. Can't have both because more cores -> more heat and faster clock -> more heat. Look in your closet and pull out an oldie but goodie and slave that byatch. 

 

Personally I've had luck using Rewire to connect to a slave DAW session on the same machine and host the troublesome input monitored VIs there. In some situations it can be surprisingly effective. But how much it helps is dependent on a lot of variables, like how much reserve CPU you have left, and how to balance the total load. I need to get back to investigating this after I'm done redoing the studio. A slave machine is more predictable. I keep an i7 Windows machine connected to the 12 x cMP, either one can be master, so (as some people like to say) to be honest with you (just this one time) it's not critical whether Rewired Reaper always helps a lot on the same machine, because it always helps a lot when it's running on the slave  ;-)   

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Thanks for all that. I've just had some success importing all the data and settings into a blank template. No spiking and that's with everything loaded. However the piece became a little messed up somehow in the import, i.e. some missing regions and overall it doesn't sound quite right. The lack of spiking suggests there may be some corruption in my original file though, correct? I'm currently loading that one to see if the spiking comes back or if this is just one of those 'better days'.. 

 

I hear what you're saying about the RAM and Swap. Disconcerting but it makes sense. However as I said I got zero spiking just now and that's with the Swap reading at about 400 MB and Memory Pressure showing yellow. I've lost the exact readings because I've closed that project but Logic was using around 13.x GB which is too much on top of the rest of the system.

 

Sadly I don't have any old PC's knocking around. I do have an older MacBook but I'm sure that wouldn't work as a slave, not powerful enough. I'll have to think about these options some more. Meanwhile I'm going to see what I can do to nudge this setup into some sort of acceptable working condition, taking into account what you have said about RAM and perhaps trying out VEPro etc. 

 

Ah, the joys of all this troubleshooting. :( 

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Thanks for all that. I've just had some success importing all the data and settings into a blank template. No spiking and that's with everything loaded. However the piece became a little messed up somehow in the import, i.e. some missing regions and overall it doesn't sound quite right. The lack of spiking suggests there may be some corruption in my original file though, correct? I'm currently loading that one to see if the spiking comes back or if this is just one of those 'better days'.. 

When was the last time you rebuilt your template/OS?  Neither will operate in perpetuity without issues.  I can attest that every time I do a system refresh I'm welcomed by more speedy system, even without upgrading anything.  And by refresh I mean install everything from scratch without restoring anything.

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Well I've never done a clean install of the OS, just upgraded it the 'normal' way. That in itself hasn't caused me any problems that I am aware of and lots of people do it that way these days, do they not? Or restore a TM backup in cases of necessity. I have certainly read around this and am aware of the differing views as to how necessary a clean install of everything is. So the answer to your question is that I've never re-built my system though I did partially re-build my template at the beginning of 2017. I can certainly see the sense in what you describe but it sounds like a massive undertaking and I wonder just what difference it would make to this particular issue. Definitely worth considering though, if I can find the stomach (and the time) for it.

 

I got the spiking back once the original project loaded, which was straight after the imported version which had no spiking. I closed and re-opened Logic between each version but didn't re-boot the machine in order to keep things consistent. So that's saying something, though quite what I'm not sure. Am I right in thinking it could indicate project corruption? If so is importing everything into a bare project or template the way to go and is that a reliable process? As I said the imported version earlier seemed a little 'off' in various ways, though I imported everything that I could.

 

I just want to say thank you to everyone that has contributed so far. I really appreciate the quality of help that is being offered here.

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1) There's got to be a way to get that project stripped down to where you are not using swap. If you're not running other apps/toys in the background, then that 400 Mb involves part of your Logic processes that are being pushed on and off the disk. Not good. The difference in access time between any sort of disk and RAM is astronomical. 

 

2) As to your old macBook being too slow, maybe not. All you want to do is run another DAW on there, it could be Logic 9 or whatever, or a trial Reaper. Maybe even Garageband. And you don't need an audio or MIDI interface on it, just an ethernet cable between the two machines, and the built-in audio. Think of the slave macBook as a synthesizer you're playing from Logic. 

 

I'm assuming that you have gotten your memory usage under control and you can PLAY the project ok. Now, you (read up on and) create a network MIDI connection between the two. In Logic X you keep everything as before but create an additional MIDI track below the trouble VI track that your keyboard will play into. You route the MIDI to the network MIDI port, start up your slave DAW on the old macBook, and look for the matching network MIDI port in the slave session. You put the tracks on both machines in record ready.  On the slave you load up just the VI that's causing trouble in your main Logic session and play your keyboard. You will see your keyboard is going into Logic X, going across the network, popping up inside your slave session and playing the VI there -- with NO load on Logic X. The first time you see that you'll squeal with joy. To hear it as you play the keyboard, bring audio back from the built-in audio on the slave into your main mac's audio interface. All you care about is hearing it to monitor it. Record your track in Logic X now as MIDI, with no spiking, you can do takes, edit, etc. You're using the slave macBook as an external MIDI synth. 

 

When your track is ready, drag the now recorded MIDI region(s) up to the track with the troublesome VI on the main Logic X session. You can now play it in the project without using the slave, and if you have selected another (empty) track, it won't be spiking, because playback hasn't been the problem all along. Make sense? 

 

To record the next spiking VI track, repeat. You really only need to have one VI loaded on the slave at a time, because all you're using it for is to monitor it while you track it. So it isn't a big load on the slave, and an old machine could work fine. With Gigabit Ethernet and a slave running in power-saver mode, the lag I typically see is in the order of 1-2 mS, and the jitter no worse than a typical MIDI chain. There's a little bar in the network MIDI window that displays the lag. 

 

Think about this in the context of your workflow, it's friendly rocket-science, a lot better than crumbling into overload every time you try to record a new track. You can probably find a practical way to use it, at least until you have enough children to mortgage to keep buying the latest supersized gigacore bigMac Pro, every year. And selling me your obsolete hardware for a pittance.

 

If this becomes a regular habit, you'll find that you can share (or duplicate exactly) a lot of resources across the LAN, so the whole business of loading the same VI on master and slave can be very simple. The slave DAW can even play tracks of its own sync'ed to the master. The audio from the slave can be returned over a fiber-optic cable and recorded into Logic X. You start to see it as one bigger machine, with all sorts of useful capabilities. You might even start looking around for other unattached hardware to join your little polygamist farm. That's how these things get started. 

Edited by fernandraynaud
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There have been reported problems with people using older projects and templates on newer versions of Logic, so it is definitely worth making fresh templates and even projects (by using the import tracks dialogue) if you suspect something amiss there. At least eliminate that possibility.
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Many thanks fernandraynaud for that detailed description of networking the MacBook, and for your earlier post. Really helpful. I'm definitely going to try that out. Love your sense of humour too.. I can't see your image properly by the way, just something about third party hosting from photobucket.com? 

 

I should be able to get the project down to pre-swap fairly easily by only loading whatever number of instruments/samples in Play keeps me there and leaving the rest unloaded, as I did before while testing. The MacBook runs Logic 9 under Snow Leopard. 

 

A few questions:

1. How do I make sure that all unnecessary background 'apps and toys' aren't running, apart from checking that nothing shows up under Force Quit? Are there other processes to look out for? The list in A.M. is huge and I wouldn't know what to quit safely there. (Of course I can read up on this too!) 

 

2. I have a few ethernet cables lying around. Two of them are CAT.5E Patch cables but one of them (thicker) says "verified for gigabit ethernet". I presume that is the best one to use? The other is just a CAT.5.

 

3. To load up the troublesome VI on the MacBook, I presume I have to have the source library installed there which is a problem because it only has 2 GB of RAM. Or do I have to have it on a separate external drive? At present my libraries are on the Mini's 2nd internal (dedicated) drive. Surely the MacBook won't be able to see them over the network and load the samples from there? I guess I'll find this out by trying it..

 

Thanks maceasy. Yes, as I posted earlier I definitely got less spiking by importing the data into a blank (not freshly built though) template. The present project however was started in 10.3.2, although I did of course use the old template. I'm not confident the import was entirely successful though so I'd prefer to avoid re-building the project if I can get the present one to behave properly. However I will certainly keep this in mind.

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1. How do I make sure that all unnecessary background 'apps and toys' aren't running, apart from checking that nothing shows up under Force Quit? Are there other processes to look out for? The list in A.M. is huge and I wouldn't know what to quit safely there. (Of course I can read up on this too!) 

You might try creating a new user on your Mac that is only for when you use Logic.  That's a good way to avoid all the extraneous stuff clogging up your Mac that Logic doesn't use.

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Ok excellent. Sounds like a good idea.

 

Incidentally, looking at your specs there's a Mac with the same configuration for sale in a local audio store. This one seems a bit old at 2009 but does that look like it might be worth getting? Obviously I'd have to upgrade the RAM and perhaps add an SSD or two but would this still be a reasonable machine by today's standards?  

 

http://www.bigbearsound.com/product/apple-macpro-2009-41/ 

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Ok I've set up the midi network between the two computers and I've figured out how to both play an instrument loaded on the slave and how to access the sample library on the main machine. Now I just have to work out how to establish those libraries within Play on the slave. This is exciting though - I can certainly see the possibilities in this arrangement. 
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Incidentally, looking at your specs there's a Mac with the same configuration for sale in a local audio store. This one seems a bit old at 2009 but does that look like it might be worth getting? Obviously I'd have to upgrade the RAM and perhaps add an SSD or two but would this still be a reasonable machine by today's standards?  

 

http://www.bigbearsound.com/product/apple-macpro-2009-41/ 

I'm not sure if my model Mac is worth the money.  You could probably get a used iMac with much better specs for the same price.  I offload most of my sample libraries to a very fast slave and it still hiccups.  If you're in the market for a slave, there's really no reason not to buy a Windows-based machine.  You'll get way more bang for you buck.

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Obviously my earlier questions in post no 22 have been answered at this stage. Having never run a slave I was not aware that I would be able to access all files on both machines and therefore load samples across the network. That is excellent. I have just purchased a license for OS X Lion which I'm going to load onto the MacBook so that I can run the latest version of Play. That is the most recent OS version that it will run apparently.
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@Markdu, I'm sorry I wasn't on-line for you right away. @paulcristo's suggestions are right on. Yes, creating a stripped down account just to run Logic is perfect.

 

Logic 9 under SL is THE preferred config by a lot of smart Logic people, so for now you might be able to work with it just fine. Not sure about what Play requires, I use Kontakt.

 

And once you get to that, yes, a windows machine running Reaper makes a great and cost-effective slave. Reaper can be evaluated for as long as you want, and then it's $60. So don't rush, get a sense of what you want before buying a slave machine. You can get a lot of PC cheaply. You might consider a fast i7 box because you might end up running it as an equal partner. It doesn't have to have the latest or most powerful everything. Also, people sell their very good older machines (cheaply) because they're gamers and need very powerful GPUs, and we don't care. I have my cMP 12 core tandem'ed with an older i7-2600k and they make ze beautiful love together over an orange CAT 6 cable ;-) I'm redoing my studio, and I just got the basics connected and the two machines talking. Ach, young love!

 

There are ALL sorts of cool things you can do by having both a mac and a PC working together. And if you're truly adventurous, you can even get OsX, I mean macOS, running on a PC. They are, after all, the same Intel-based computers.

 

But I should mention that a dual CPU 2009 4,1 MacPro is great. It can be upgraded to a be 5,1 (2010-2012) with a simple 10 minute firmware upgrade. Then you can install a couple of 3.47 Ghz X5690 Xeons for about $250 from eBay. And then you've got a 12 core 2012 macPro that's only about 10% slower than a trashcan 12 core. You can also install 64GB of the faster 1333 Mhz RAM for about $100. And that's a winning machine provided you got the 4,1 at fair market price, look on CraigsList. Guess how I know ;-) The tricky part is installing the CPUs, because the 4,1 used de-lidded CPUs, and installing the regular (lidded) ones requires what they call an "an artist's touch". There are a lot of tutorials. Or you can send in the CPU tray and have someone do it. There's nothing obsolete about a 12 core 3.47 Ghz classic macPro. You could use your Mini as the slave ;-)

 

Yes, you can share files over the LAN. You can share all your libraries that way ;-)

 

There's a Theme for Reaper that emulates the look of Logic X rather well. It takes a bit to get used to Reaper, but this theme makes it a little less foreign ;-)

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0TgVhj8yfRpa0Gdv4Px0nQ

 

There are many other cool ones,

 

https://stash.reaper.fm/tag/Themes

 

and once you start understanding the Reaper way, you can customize it (almost) exactly how you want it. Reaper is good, can work as a slave over Network MIDI or locally with Rewire, and is very efficient on CPU. It makes a great VI host for the slave, and runs on both Windows and OsX, can use AU and VST plugins. It's a great combination with Logic.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble posting images, photobucket turned predatory, need to find another free hosting site.

 

What questions are left I can answer for you?

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Many thanks once again for that highly informative post fernandraynaud. And don't worry about not coming back to me sooner - I'm sure we are all busy people.

 

I'm still in the midst of setting all this up. Right now the Lion installation seems to have damaged my MacBook's bootcamp/Win 7 partition which I need for my business accounts so I need to fix that before doing anything else. :( Once I get that sorted I will reply properly and yes I may well have some more questions for you if you don't mind!

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