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Moving audio regions regardless of tempo


Morpheo

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I've asked this on GS and someone wisely advised me to seek help from the "real pros"... :mrgreen: so here I am.... This is really driving me nuts. I'm working on a film and I'm used to build my cues in Pro Tools *after* the movie on the timeline. So I can have multiple cues side by side that I can try on specific scenes, simply by dragging them of course. I want to do the same thing in Logic, but right now I can't because everytime I want to drag a group of regions somewhere on the timeline the tempo messes with everything. See my screenshot, the cue has been recorded at 122, and I want to move these regions earlier, exactly as they are (some of them have silence between them others start later as you can see), where the tempo is different. How can I do this??? It would seem like something fairly easy to achieve but apparently not! I've googled a bit and all I can find is lock/unlock smpte position which has actually zero effect. Is it possible to somehow "unlink" audio regions from the tempo map?

 

There has to be a way to do this no? (LPX 10.3.2) What I'm looking for I guess is an equivalent to "sample based" vs. "tick based" in Pro Tools.

1722421732_ScreenShot2017-11-23at10_16_11AM.png.fc2ac78a72a8386cd48bdb400197ef8d.png

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Have you considered folder packing or using a stack your regions?

Perhaps the snap setting (Absolute vs Relative) could be involved also...

 

I've tried all these and none of them makes a difference. Creating folders or stacks simply to move regions would be rather awkward by the way (imho). The closest thing to Pro Tools' sample/tick based would seem to be "use/don't use musical grid", yet regions are invariably linked to the project's tempo. Is there really no way in Logic to move regions and keep them located relative to each other instead of that damn tempo track? :wink:

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I am not a movie guy so I might be misunderstanding your issue....

 

Turn off SMPTE

make sure follow tempo is not checked in the inspector

make sure flex is turned off

when you select the regions, make sure you are not also selecting any of the tempo track.

 

you should be able to move regions in time without the tempo affecting it or the tempo shifting position.

 

Is this what you are looking to achieve....?

 

445499947_dontmoveit.thumb.gif.e9f4df094543c5dbcb6d8e30792723e6.gif

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Make sure Flex is off for those tracks.

 

Flex is indeed disabled on all tracks.

 

 

Still trying to find a solution to this:

 

initial regions:

558973044_ScreenShot2017-11-23at6_42_00PM.png.a561ab49f7597dfaac001c71a663e355.png

 

then after moving them to a "different tempo" area....:

 

1977915282_ScreenShot2017-11-23at6_42_31PM.png.ddcc822e4f528d1fe4d5e7c46288ad6d.png

 

Imagine doing this with a complex cue!

 

The compromise I've found for now is that I "build" my cues on a separate project (just to avoid any suprise with the tempo), record them with all tracks starting at the same time, then I import them in my main project (where the movie is). In this one I never touch the tempo, so I can edit my cues as it suits me and move them anywhere I want. STILL: awkawrd and not exactly a time-saver...... I really hope there's a hidden setting somewhere that can solve this!

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I am not a movie guy so I might be misunderstanding your issue....

 

Turn off SMPTE

make sure follow tempo is not checked in the inspector

make sure flex is turned off

when you select the regions, make sure you are not also selecting any of the tempo track.

 

you should be able to move regions in time without the tempo affecting it or the tempo shifting position.

 

Is this what you are looking to achieve....?

 

don't move it.gif

 

YES!!!!!! That's what I want! :lol:

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Go through each of the punch points above and see if any of those conditions exist. It has to be one of them....

 

flex may be off on the track but on in the region.. so check each region inspector a well.

 

If not, zip your project ( or a scaled down version of it with the issue) and upload to the forum for us to look at.

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Go through each of the punch points above and see if any of those conditions exist. It has to be one of them....

 

flex may be off on the track but on in the region.. so check each region inspector a well.

 

If not, zip your project ( or a scaled down version of it with the issue) and upload to the forum for us to look at.

 

 

- How do you "turn off" SMPTE? Do you mean lock/unlock?

- follow tempo is unchecked

- flex is off

- Nothing is selected in the tempo track when I select the regions.

 

I think I'll make a test project and attach it - thank you so much for your help by the way.

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Go through each of the punch points above and see if any of those conditions exist. It has to be one of them....

Hmmm no Logic will keep the bar/beat relationship between the regions at the new tempo, resulting in the regions appearing shorter or longer. That's actually the expected behavior:

 

tempo.gif.21b2994675a0a5213a8818a8f07f7c6a.gif

 

What you could do is, after you've moved the regions, set your drag mode to Shuffle L, select the regions on the right, and drag them a bit toward the left to make them snap to the regions on their left.

 

On your original screenshot it's going to be a bit more challenging, so I would recommend you bounce each track as a single audio region, making sure all regions start at the same position, before moving them.

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Go through each of the punch points above and see if any of those conditions exist. It has to be one of them....

Hmmm no Logic will keep the bar/beat relationship between the regions at the new tempo, resulting in the regions appearing shorter or longer. That's actually the expected behavior:

 

But how did he do it in post #5? Which is exactly what I'm aiming at...

 

Here's a test session FWIW. Original tempo is 120 and then it's pretty clear what happens when it's changed to 107... How can we make regions not "tempo dependant" (as seen in post 5)

TempoTest.zip

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But how did he do it in post #5? Which is exactly what I'm aiming at...

In #5 you can see that the regions change visible length as he moves them, resulting in the space in between regions being different. It's just less easy to notice because none of his regions touch each other.

 

hm yes you're right I didn't notice the first time. So back to square one...

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What you want to do is to keep the relationship between regions in a new tempo.

The procedure is this:

 

  1. Lock the regions you want to move to SMPTE.
  2. Change the tempo to the destination tempo by using a tempo alternative.
  3. Unlock SMPTE.
  4. Change to the original tempo track.
  5. Move your regions

 

I provided a small illustration with a reference track for visuals:

 

1220684112_Keeprelation.thumb.gif.d8d5c83866c1a628783b7af5c5af58c5.gif

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What you want to do is to keep the relationship between regions in a new tempo.

The procedure is this:

 

  1. Lock the regions you want to move to SMPTE.
  2. Change the tempo to the destination tempo by using a tempo alternative.
  3. Unlock SMPTE.
  4. Change to the original tempo track.
  5. Move your regions

 

I provided a small illustration with a reference track for visuals:

 

Keep relation.gif

 

But it doesn't work "the other way around":

- original tempo: 120 (destination 107)

- lock SMPTE (120)

- create a new tempo set

- unlock SMPTE (still 120 regardless)

- back to original tempo set with the tempo change

- move region to the 107bpm area.

.......regions still match the tempo track... :cry:

 

(sorry about the big gif)

1505583433_2017-11-2413_16_08.thumb.gif.bf1a958a864fa9551738cdb55ee5a255.gif

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You missed step #2 in Eric's instruction.

 

Sure it does.

You have to change the tempo of the new tempo alternative to 107 = destination tempo.

 

Oh, silly!!!

 

So, I'll try it again later... But with that workaround, that means I could have several cues with different tempos (and obviously different tempo sets), and still have a, say, 120bpm "default" tempo under the movie track, and all my cues could be moved to that region in proper form? ......then I'll call that my own Black Friday special! :mrgreen:

 

Thanks Eric, David, and everyone else! :D

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But with that workaround, that means I could have several cues with different tempos (and obviously different tempo sets), and still have a, say, 120bpm "default" tempo under the movie track, and all my cues could be moved to that region in proper form?

Not exactly. You'll have to create a tempo set of the destination tempo every time you want to move a cue to it. For example if you want to move a cue to a location where the tempo is 107, you have to create a tempo set with a straight tempo of 107. If the location where you want to move a cue has multiple tempos, things could go awry... in that case you can always use my workaround, to first consolidate your audio regions and then move them (without any concern for tempos).

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Not exactly. You'll have to create a tempo set of the destination tempo every time you want to move a cue to it. For example if you want to move a cue to a location where the tempo is 107, you have to create a tempo set with a straight tempo of 107. If the location where you want to move a cue has multiple tempos, things could go awry... in that case you can always use my workaround, to first consolidate your audio regions and then move them (without any concern for tempos).

 

Indeed, I figured as well. But I usually try to keep a constant, "generic", tempo when I work directly with a movie track to avoid problems (even in PT, you never know...). Maybe that could be a feature that could be added in a future update/upgrade though: the ability to link/unlink/relink regions to the tempo map (audio or MIDI). Being so used to Pro Tools' way of doing this, it seems rather obvious to me. For film music, this could be a huge improvement and a very welcome addition to Logic. FWIW, I'm currently trying to switch to Logic full time. There's so much to love when it comes to composing music in LPX... These days, for various reasons when I'm in PT that's because I have to, whereas in LPX, that's because I want to.

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  • 2 months later...
Sorry to resurrect this somewhat old thread, but with the arrival of smart tempo, this whole issue is now something of the past! Still amazed at the number of new features in this update, but this one alone, smart tempo, is something I definitely wasn't expecting! Enjoying Logic even more!! 8-)
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