sends on buses?

How do I put sends on buses? I seem to only be able to have them on channels. As an example, I have 12 tracks of background vocals bused to bus 1, output 1 and 2. I'd like to apply reverb to this bus so that all the bv's are affected. Thanks. P

Put a Reverb plugin on the Aux/bus 1 using an insert.

Hi, thanks for the reply, but I'm not following you. I attached 2 screenshots. In the first I buses some bv to bus 9. As you can see, there are sends in the channel strips but not the bus 9 strip. I would like to send signal to bus 10, in the 2nd screenshot. In the channel strip setup window I have "send" checked, thus the reason they show up in the individual channel strips. Thanks for your patience

. P

I also found on page 287 of The Logic Pro X How It Works book, the following horrifying info: "Bus, Output and Master channel strips don't have sends. Please tell me a way around this!

I also found on page 287 of The Logic Pro X How It Works book, the following horrifying info: "Bus, Output and Master channel strips don't have sends. Please tell me a way around this!

 

By doing it the LPX "standard" way using the auto-created aux-channel strips ? Any particular reason you are using bus channel strips ?

Probably because I'm an old guy used to hardware consoles and Studio Vision Pro... To submix multiple inputs, such as background vocals, isn't sending them to a bus the only way to go? On the output choices for each channel, I have only "output" and "bus." To host the plugins, such as the Roland device I'm trying to send the signal to, is there a better option? My problem seems to be getting a send from my submix of background vocals.

In LPX, when you start using a bus, an aux channel strip with that bus as input is automatically created.

So, when you set the output of the bv track to a bus, you also get an aux channel strip where you also can have sends. A convenient way of setting up a submix like this is using track stacks, you select the bv tracks in the tracks area, control-click them and select "create track stack".

Ah, this sounds like I'm getting close... In my top screenshot, where would I find the aux channel strip for bus 9?

You don't have it. It seems that if you first create the bus in the environment, no aux channel will get created. If you instead "initiate" the bus by setting a channel strips sends or output to a unused bus, the aux is created. I suspect you first created the buses in the environment, so the auxes never got created. You can create new auxes in the mixer manually and set the correct bus as input.

I did as you said and created a summing track. That is a very neat feature. Thanks for showing me that.

You'll find that the deeper you go into understanding how Logic works, the more power you will discover. It will make your analog console look like a toy! And all of that with total recall and automation.

 

Steve

You're welcome

Did you get the difference between a buss and an aux withing Logic? They're not the same. Summing tracks are not always the best solution, especially not for effects that a lot of different channel are going to use.

 

Bus = Routing channel only, usually only in the background (environment). Used automatically when creating a new aux channel. No sends.

Aux = Auxiliary channel, it's a channel ony. Using a bus (or another) input. That's where the classic effects will be put on, in a classic mixer setup. These channels will support sends.

 

Imagine the buss as the cable, and the aux as the actual channel strip in the mixer. So it makes sense, that a bus doesn't have a send, but an aux does.

 

As long as you're not familiar with the environment, just don't touch it. Only work in the arrangement and mixer window. That will cover 99.9% of all your needs for the usual work. I never did something in the environment for a very long time, last time with Logic 8, except the labels for my external MIDI gear.

 

If you use a self-created template, that maybe already "messed up" with the environment, I'd recommend to use one of the default Logic templates, or start your own template from scratch (without touching the environment, unless you know exactly what you're doing).

As long as you're not familiar with the environment, just don't touch it. (...)

If you use a self-created template, that maybe already "messed up" with the environment, I'd recommend to use one of the default Logic templates, or start your own template from scratch (without touching the environment, unless you know exactly what you're doing).

I heartily agree with that piece of advice. Don't use Bus channel strips, use only Aux channel strips (which have sends), and as long as you don't use a custom template then no Bus channel strip will ever be automatically created.

Oh, my head is starting to hurt... In a channel strip, with, say, a vocal, the sends will only go to a bus. I have been putting reverbs, etc., in the buses and that seems to work OK. Are you saying that I should use the bus as a conduit to an aux, and that the aux is where the reverb should reside, instead of the bus itself? I can reconfigure my mixing template that way if needed. On the subject of auxes, some of them are appearing on my console, at the extreme right-hand end. Unlike other elements in my mixer, these don't show up in the tracks windows and therefore cannot be moved. I kind of like everything to be neat and would like to rearrange them. I've never dealt with the auxes before, as this is the first time I've used summing tracks, and they seem to be automatically generated by them. Thanks for your patience. P

Oh, my head is starting to hurt... In a channel strip, with, say, a vocal, the sends will only go to a bus. I have been putting reverbs, etc., in the buses and that seems to work OK.

Sure that works fine – except bus channel strips don't have sends whereas Aux channel strips have sends and you seem to miss those.

 

There are 3 concepts at play:

 

1) Bus: On a channel strip, clicking a send allows you to select a bus (a virtual audio cable if you'd like) that allows you to transport the audio signal (bus = means of transportation) to another channel strip.

2) Bus Channel Strip: A bus channel strip allows you to process the audio on a bus, and to route it to an output.

3) Aux Channel Strip: An Aux channel strip allows you to process audio present on its input, to send it to multiple destination and route it to an output.

 

Bus channel strips are a legacy type of object that is not immediately available in Logic's interface, whereas Aux channel strips are easy to create by multiple means in Logic's interface... so basically Apple is encouraging you to forget about Bus channel strips and use Aux channel strips instead, which as suggested before, makes a lot of sense in 99.9% of cases.

 

When you choose a bus from the "Send" slot on a channel strip, Logic automatically creates an Aux channel strip set up with that bus selected as its input. UNLESS you have a Bus channel strip already present for that bus in your Environment window, in which case it uses that. To adapt your Mix template, simply delete all Bus Channel Strips from your Environment window and create Aux channel strips with inputs set to the corresponding Busses instead.

 

Are you saying that I should use the bus as a conduit to an aux

Yes.

 

and that the aux is where the reverb should reside, instead of the bus itself?

I think you meant instead of the Bus Channel Strip, but yes, you're correct.

 

I can reconfigure my mixing template that way if needed. On the subject of auxes, some of them are appearing on my console, at the extreme right-hand end. Unlike other elements in my mixer, these don't show up in the tracks windows and therefore cannot be moved.

Control-Click any channel strip in the Mixer and choose "Create Track."

Thanks, David. That's a lot of information. Let me play with it. I think a lot of the confusion on my end is the different terminology used in Logic vs. SVP, vs. analog consoles, etc. Now that I've been made aware of summing channels in Logic, I see the need for understanding auxes. I haven't had to deal with them before. As you said, using buses to host reverbs works fine. For the most part I don't see the value in having a send on a channel that is hosting a reverb, but will attempt to "get with the program" (Logic) Thanks again.

P

I was taught that you never combine outputs unless into a mixer or bus. It seems, though, that I'm not having any adverse effects to say, having a lead vocal assigned to a stereo output, and having the effect to which one of its sends is connected also routed to the same output, so that the dry and effect signal are together on the same pair of outputs. Is this true, or should I go old-school and create yet another bus to combine the original signal and the effected signal?

I was taught that you never combine outputs unless into a mixer or bus.

Who taught you that?

My now-dead recording engineer, with whom I worked for 25 years.

My now-dead recording engineer, with whom I worked for 25 years.

Well, at least as far as Logic is concerned, that piece of advice does not apply. There's no difference between mixing to a bus or to an output.

@David: There is a post here, with a picture that explains it pretty well. But I can't find it. I think it was from 3ple.

@David: There is a post here, with a picture that explains it pretty well.

I'm sorry, a picture that explains what exactly?

@David: There is a post here, with a picture that explains it pretty well.

I'm sorry, a picture that explains what exactly?

 

Aux, Bus, Channels and how they relate, and so on.

@David: There is a post here, with a picture that explains it pretty well.

I'm sorry, a picture that explains what exactly?

 

Found it.

 

To the OP, maybe this helps to understand it a little better:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131771&p=673218

To the OP, maybe this helps to understand it a little better:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=131771&p=673218

I'd never seen this before!

Thanks, I now understand a bus as being a conduit, not a destination. When I talk about combining outputs, bear in mind I'm still subconsciously, at age 62, thinking of analog audio, where you most definitely cannot use a proverbial "y-cord" to join 2 outputs together. Merging data streams is obviously different. One advantage I can see to combining signals through a bus before they hit the shared output is that by looking at the meter on the bus you can see if you're overloading the output. I suppose you could also look at the output channel strip, but it seems that if you start viewing outputs on your console, before you know it you have 112 channels strips up...

One advantage I can see to combining signals through a bus before they hit the shared output is that by looking at the meter on the bus you can see if you're overloading the output.

But that's redundant: to see if you're overloading the output, just use the output meter. You can't overload the input of the Output channel strip.

 

I suppose you could also look at the output channel strip, but it seems that if you start viewing outputs on your console, before you know it you have 112 channels strips up...

I'm not sure what you mean by that. For 99% of my work I have only 1 output channel strip in my mixer, the Stereo Out. Using a bus before the output is redundant, and it adds one more unnecessary channel strip, so if anything, not using a bus allows you to have less channel strips in your mixer.

Ah, here's the difference: I'm sending all these channels, buses, etc., to inputs on my console. I can see the input levels on the console, but if I'm using Logic outputs on inserts in the console, the console does not show those levels, only the input levels. I usually use Logic only as a stand-alone host for plugins while I control everything from SVP, but I thought I'd learn to actually use more of Logic's features by doing this mix only in Logic, before sending it to the console for final summing, etc. With the s/n of digital, there's the luxury of being able to leave a lot more headroom going into the mix buses, but it seems that people like to push the levels into them, with less-than-stellar results. A lot of people are trying for that smashed SSL sound and are turning out mixes that sound great for 30 seconds on your car speakers, or on ear buds on the subway, but are un-listenable for any length of time. (And no, I don't miss analog tape-it was a pain in the ass and was expensive.)